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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Several problems: 1) They were not outcasts. 2) They did not follow the Sun, nor reclaim seats at their father's table.

I would say that "the land lies swathed in darkness by another's hand" could certainly be a reference to Shade Enclave.

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

The leader of the Shadowvar was one of those ancient Netherese, and he did not seek to restore the old Netherese council - he desired a restoration of Netheril in name only, with him its unquestioned master.

While the seraph of lies did have some interaction with the Karse stone, he did not 1)cause the breach of the Sharn wall, or 2) lead the Shadowvar to Karse, or 3) lead in the ritual that Returned the Enclave.

As such, I can't see any way to say that Cyric guided them.

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Most importantly, it says "the sun shall rise... and while bright..."

The Dark sun was [i]never[i] bright.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I would say Sembia didn't really benefit from being taken over by Shade, myself.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Rulers trying to stay in power don't ask to be invaded and conquered. That kinda defeats the purpose.

And it can be reasonably assumed that after being conquered, some of the money that would have flowed into Sembian pockets was going into Shadovar pockets, instead. This would not be to Sembia's benefit, and having their capital turned into a shadowy pit of the undead would also not be considered beneficial, by most folks.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Good morning everyone,

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The sun shall rise to guide the outcasts home to their fathers' houses to claim seats at the table once more. This dawn brings prosperity for some, ruin for others, and while the sun is bright, the land lies swathed in darkness by another's hand.

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Originally posted by Returnip

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Good morning everyone,

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And to you, Great Reader cpthero2.

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The sun shall rise to guide the outcasts home to their fathers' houses to claim seats at the table once more. This dawn brings prosperity for some, ruin for others, and while the sun is bright, the land lies swathed in darkness by another's hand.

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While I know very little about the Phoenix Prophecies I'll just drop my immediate interpretation of this quote.

I think this augury might refer to Lathander. If you want to go the Netherese route it might be a reference to Lathander being a reincarnation of Amaunator who was a Netherese sun deity. The outcasts he is to guide back to their fathers' house could then be decendants of Low Netheril, or it could be the shades, if we take outcast as meaning "cast out" or "locked out". The City of Shade did try to cross back into the Prime Material Plane after the first test run there, but since Mystra died they were locked out from the Prime Material Plane as it were. The darkness swathing the land is said to be by the hand of another, so not Lathander or the City of Shade. My first guess is Shar, and so she becomes the hurdle that must be overcome for the prophecy to become true.

My two copper pieces.

EDIT: I should add that my above interpretation might mean that the return of Amaunator, reincarnated or not, might foreshadow atonement for the Netherese shades and thus giving them a chance to return to a "place at the table" and reestablish their nation.

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Originally posted by PattPlays

It seems that any netherese resurrection that was going on prior to 1490DR has been 'postponed indefinitely' in the re-desertification of the lands of Anauroch. Anaumator and Lathander both getting the free god-pass of post Second Sundering Ao has yet to make any impact on the lore as a whole. I always wonder how it plays out at the table across the world though, wherever it may come up at the table..

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Originally posted by sleyvas

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Originally posted by PattPlays

It seems that any netherese resurrection that was going on prior to 1490DR has been 'postponed indefinitely' in the re-desertification of the lands of Anauroch. Anaumator and Lathander both getting the free god-pass of post Second Sundering Ao has yet to make any impact on the lore as a whole. I always wonder how it plays out at the table across the world though, wherever it may come up at the table..

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That is if you accept those statements to be true (about Anauroch being a desert again), which I honestly believe to be some accidental mistake by someone (where was that from by the way). By that I don't mean "just make it wrong" mind you, but rather think on how to play with the lore to make both things true. For instance, with the land of the shades fallen, might some of the shadovar attempt some kind of grand mirage spell that reflects the imagery of the desert to those that come upon their lands so that they can rebuild in secrecy? Since I'd imagine not a whole lot of people are trying to enter their territory given where it was located, maybe only SOME folks know the truth?

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

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Originally posted by sleyvas

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Originally posted by PattPlays

It seems that any netherese resurrection that was going on prior to 1490DR has been 'postponed indefinitely' in the re-desertification of the lands of Anauroch. Anaumator and Lathander both getting the free god-pass of post Second Sundering Ao has yet to make any impact on the lore as a whole. I always wonder how it plays out at the table across the world though, wherever it may come up at the table..

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That is if you accept those statements to be true (about Anauroch being a desert again), which I honestly believe to be some accidental mistake by someone (where was that from by the way). By that I don't mean "just make it wrong" mind you, but rather think on how to play with the lore to make both things true. For instance, with the land of the shades fallen, might some of the shadovar attempt some kind of grand mirage spell that reflects the imagery of the desert to those that come upon their lands so that they can rebuild in secrecy? Since I'd imagine not a whole lot of people are trying to enter their territory given where it was located, maybe only SOME folks know the truth?

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That is a good point. Anauroch had it's origin in the magic of the Phaerimms. If the desert is back, wouldn't that mean the Phaerimm would have to be back as well?

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

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Originally posted by sleyvas

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Originally posted by PattPlays

It seems that any netherese resurrection that was going on prior to 1490DR has been 'postponed indefinitely' in the re-desertification of the lands of Anauroch. Anaumator and Lathander both getting the free god-pass of post Second Sundering Ao has yet to make any impact on the lore as a whole. I always wonder how it plays out at the table across the world though, wherever it may come up at the table..

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That is if you accept those statements to be true (about Anauroch being a desert again), which I honestly believe to be some accidental mistake by someone (where was that from by the way). By that I don't mean "just make it wrong" mind you, but rather think on how to play with the lore to make both things true. For instance, with the land of the shades fallen, might some of the shadovar attempt some kind of grand mirage spell that reflects the imagery of the desert to those that come upon their lands so that they can rebuild in secrecy? Since I'd imagine not a whole lot of people are trying to enter their territory given where it was located, maybe only SOME folks know the truth?

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That is a good point. Anauroch had it's origin in the magic of the Phaerimms. If the desert is back, wouldn't that mean the Phaerimm would have to be back as well?

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Early in 1487, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions abounded for months, as if the whole world was convulsing. Rumors spread of chasms caused by the Spellplague suddenly vanishing, and stories circulated of known destinations being farther away from one another, as if the world had quietly added miles of wilderness to the distance between them. Word began to spread of places and peoples not heard from since the Spellplague. It became apparent that some of the effects of that terrible time had been reversed. During the year, ships claiming to be from Evermeet, Lantan, and Nimbral- nations thought vanished or destroyed- sailed into ports on the Sword Coast and in the Shining South. Tales spread of the legendary skyships of Halruaa being spotted in southern skies.

No longer engaged in Cormyr, Netheril attacked Myth Drannor by floating the City of Shade over it. In a struggle for control of Myth Drannor's mythal and the Weave itself, the flying capital of Netheril was brought crashing down on Myth Drannor, resulting in the cataclysmic destruction of both. As the year drew to a close, there were nights when the heavens seemed to hang motionless. Throughout much of Faerun, the winter of 1487 and 1488 lasted longer than any on record. The solstices and equinoxes had somehow drifted. Later seasons followed suit, with each starting and ending later than expected. Prayers to the gods for knowledge and mercy seemed to go unacknowledged, apart from the presence of their Chosen.

Although the orcs were defeated in the North, the League of Silver Marches was disbanded in 1488, as former allies blamed one another for failures in the war. Sembia divided into separate city-states only nominally allied with one another. While a handful of settlements survived, the Netherese Empire was no more. The remainder of the Netherese forces battle with the Bedine over control of the Memory Spire, thought to be a tomb of the phaerimm, Netheril's ancient enemies. The battle awakens what turns out to be a hive of the creatures, and they use the life and magic-draining power of the spire against the lands below.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Learned Scribe PattPlays,

First off: thank you for the share as always! :)

Second: thank you for saving me money on 5th. ;)

I kind of like the idea of having Anauroch revert back to non-desert terrain, but I think the soul sucking torture I would have to endure to see that isn't worth it. I think I'll crank up my Tears for Fears and go back to pre-Spellplague. ;)

Best regards,

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Originally posted by PattPlays


Well what I'm trying to say is that Anauroch was a verdant landscape for one hundred years and then following the long 'Day One Patch' as it were for the Modern Age of Toril it went back to being the same exact desert with Phaerimm that you know and love so, it *is* a desert. The verdant landscape absolutely existed, but exists no longer. Anauroch is a desert, again, just as it was before. There's nothing to oppose your interest past the year 1487 in regards to the ancient lands of Netheril.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by PattPlays


Well what I'm trying to say is that Anauroch was a verdant landscape for one hundred years and then following the long 'Day One Patch' as it were for the Modern Age of Toril it went back to being the same exact desert with Phaerimm that you know and love so, it *is* a desert. The verdant landscape absolutely existed, but exists no longer. Anauroch is a desert, again, just as it was before. There's nothing to oppose your interest past the year 1487 in regards to the ancient lands of Netheril.

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Where does it say that the entire desert had been fully restored? Where does it give a date saying this was completed?

As I recall, as soon as people figured out what the Shades were doing there, there was opposition to it.

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Originally posted by PattPlays

https://media.wizards.com/2015/images/dnd/resources/Sword-Coast-Map_HighRes.jpg

The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide doesn't give a date officially, but the most recent year it describes is 1489DR. And this map and all others from 5e, which show a completely desertificated Anauroch, are all attributed to the SCAG.

So... in under a year or two, most likely. I know, crazy! Would a whole hive of these ancient magic-sucking entities be able to accomplish this draining that fast? Is there any source on how long it took them the last time they did this?

But yeah. Every 5e map shows a full desert. Had you not seen them yet? I could link a dozen others.

Again, nobody has really done anything with Anauroch in the last 5 years (irl, as in since 2015) as far as I can tell. So this entire narrative hasn't been explored. If a DM wanted to set an adventure in Anauroch around 1488, that DM would be unofficially writing the only descriptions of this event.

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

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Originally posted by PattPlays

https://media.wizards.com/2015/images/dnd/resources/Sword-Coast-Map_HighRes.jpg

The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide doesn't give a date officially, but the most recent year it describes is 1489DR. And this map and all others from 5e, which show a completely desertificated Anauroch, are all attributed to the SCAG.

So... in under a year or two, most likely. I know, crazy! Would a whole hive of these ancient magic-sucking entities be able to accomplish this draining that fast? Is there any source on how long it took them the last time they did this?

But yeah. Every 5e map shows a full desert. Had you not seen them yet? I could link a dozen others.

Again, nobody has really done anything with Anauroch in the last 5 years (irl, as in since 2015) as far as I can tell. So this entire narrative hasn't been explored. If a DM wanted to set an adventure in Anauroch around 1488, that DM would be unofficially writing the only descriptions of this event.

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The phaerimm started casting the spells in -461 DR and it finally stopped spreading in 329 DR when the sharn locked 'em away. That is in the GHoTR.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Looking at the FRCG, the map shows that while progress had been made towards reclaiming the desert, it wasn't complete. And the book even states it outright, on page 85: "The Empire of Netheril, long covered by the Great Desert of Anauroch, has been partially restored to the green steppes and verdant forests of its ancient past."

Though we don't get any explanation for the rapid redesertification you reference, I'm going to go back to my earlier explanation rather than rely on WotC's handwavium: reclaiming a desert area is a long-term undertaking. Sure, it looks like the Shades had made some good progress -- but how quickly it was undone would indicate to me that there was a lot of magic at play, holding off the desert conditions until the local environment had changed enough to be self-sustaining. Once the Shades were slapped down, they weren't using their magic to ward off the desert, so it quickly reclaimed its original territory.

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Originally posted by PattPlays

..?

Have you all not heard? The Phaerim ARE back, and they brought about the desert the same way they did the last time. It took me a hot minute to recover this information. It's novel lore repackaged into the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide 2015.

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Early in 1487, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions abounded for months, as if the whole world was convulsing. Rumors spread of chasms caused by the Spellplague suddenly vanishing, and stories circulated of known destinations being farther away from one another, as if the world had quietly added miles of wilderness to the distance between them. Word began to spread of places and peoples not heard from since the Spellplague. It became apparent that some of the effects of that terrible time had been reversed. During the year, ships claiming to be from Evermeet, Lantan, and Nimbral- nations thought vanished or destroyed- sailed into ports on the Sword Coast and in the Shining South. Tales spread of the legendary skyships of Halruaa being spotted in southern skies.

No longer engaged in Cormyr, Netheril attacked Myth Drannor by floating the City of Shade over it. In a struggle for control of Myth Drannor's mythal and the Weave itself, the flying capital of Netheril was brought crashing down on Myth Drannor, resulting in the cataclysmic destruction of both. As the year drew to a close, there were nights when the heavens seemed to hang motionless. Throughout much of Faerun, the winter of 1487 and 1488 lasted longer than any on record. The solstices and equinoxes had somehow drifted. Later seasons followed suit, with each starting and ending later than expected. Prayers to the gods for knowledge and mercy seemed to go unacknowledged, apart from the presence of their Chosen.

Although the orcs were defeated in the North, the League of Silver Marches was disbanded in 1488, as former allies blamed one another for failures in the war. Sembia divided into separate city-states only nominally allied with one another. While a handful of settlements survived, the Netherese Empire was no more. The remainder of the Netherese forces battle with the Bedine over control of the Memory Spire, thought to be a tomb of the phaerimm, Netheril's ancient enemies. The battle awakens what turns out to be a hive of the creatures, and they use the life and magic-draining power of the spire against the lands below.

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There you go. You should really read through the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide! It's been five years. XD
The Phaerimm are out and in full force in 5e D&D despite nobody talking about them. My current campaign is set in the summer of 1487 and it will be exciting to skirt alongside these lore events and see how much the populace learns about it all. As of the summer, Anauroch is a fresh field as it has been for a century. In under 365 days, it will be a desert again.

I have a Kobold Artificer joining the game who comes from an underground warren south of the High Forest. I built up an interesting backstory about their clan 100 years back, who would have been emerging as a local power on the surface alongside a family of Brass Dragons. The radical reshaping of the environment made the Kobolds' desert-themed stealth and tactics would have been next to useless in a new fresh savannah landscape with more powerful and grassy predators and monsters coming in. They fled back underground and the Brass Dragons escaped into the Thunder Peaks. The Kobolds migrated west over time, and the growing strength of Stone Giants around the city of Lorkh slowly began killing off members of the Brass Dragon line. After the year ends, the rapid re-desertification would cause all of those freshly migrated savannah creatures to be caught up in dangerous dry weather and fleeing the rampage of freshly released Phaerimm monsters. I wonder if the kobolds might migrate back eastward along the old Arramindar roads and if a lone young Brass Dragoness might be able to retake her family's ancestral home east of the Thunder Peaks.

What do you do when the lore supposes that thousands of square miles went from Desert to Lush Fields to Desert again in the span of 100 years? Me, I run with that nonsense. Still, it is ridiculous. I suppose that's just the power of the Phaerimm?

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Several problems: 1) They were not outcasts. 2) They did not follow the Sun, nor reclaim seats at their father's table. I would say that "the land lies swathed in darkness by another's hand" could certainly be a reference to Shade Enclave.

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StevenSchend — Today at 3:02 AM
That’s a well thought-out interpretation of the prophecy and perfect for your campaign, if you like it dark and full of shade-related conflict? Is it accurate? Yes, as you’ve laid it down; that said, the whole reason the prophecies are vague allows all GMs to make of them what they will, so there’s never one answer to them. Great job!

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