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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 15:33:23
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Sorry Ayunken, but I don't want the thread to become a discussion on the many confusing things in D&D.
The question is : what's good roleplaying (and how different games help it or fight it  ) |
Edited by - Skeptic on 27 Sep 2007 15:34:24 |
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 15:44:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I was being slightly sarcastic in my first post, in my opinion I have played D&D (the old versions) as it fitted me and my group.
As for not knowing anything else; that's wrong. D&D was the third game system I used, after GURP and Drakar och Demoner (swedish). If you count one session, I could also include TORG. Do I prefer these system, in many ways yes. But there is a different flavour to each system and each has its entertainment value.
For me roleplaying is story and spontaneity. There is little preset and no rule will come in the way of the story and the fun. Dice may give ridiculous results and some times that gives great roleplaying situations. Other times it would ruin the flow and the fun and this DM will cheat like it was the ticket to enter paradise when the rules would damage the players fun.
Ah, speaking of Drakar och Demoner ("Dragons and Demons"): This is the most D&D-like game ever published in swedish.
Here are some "tips to the DM," as described in the 5th edition.
How do they differ from how you play? Are there many similarities?
- The DM is always right.
- If, for some reason, the DM is wrong, refer to the rule above.
- If the players keep secrets from eachother, they can be discussed in a separate room, or by sending notes.
- You don't have to, or need to, learn all the rules at once. Use the rulebook if you feel uncertain and if you think it's needed. In situations where the rules are unimportant, you can just as well improvise.
- Construct your own rules, where the core book doesn't supply any.
- Be honest and strive to be impartial. Use the rules to aid the players and the adventure, not for punishment.
- Play the NPCs after what they know, and not what you know.
- Prepare the adventure. Read it thoroughly, make sure that all questions are answered and that you have a good grasp over the different situations that could arise. A well prepared gaming session, is almost guaranteed to be a good session.
- Always use your own words when describing something. If you read a description from the adventure module, the game often turns stale and boring. Try describing without reading - that way, the players cannot know whether you improvise, or if what you're describing is a part of the module.
- Strive for game balance. Let the obstacles match the players' (and the PCs') skill.
- Turn every moment into an experience! If the players aren't supposed to try to solve a problem in silence, the DM can bombard them with vivid descriptions and events. If the players come upon an action-loaded event, and they don't want to hear your verbose descriptions, let them not have to. Action is action, and shouldn't be ruined by long descriptions. After all, the PCs don't have the same time to focus on the surroundings if there is action around, as they would have had investigating, without distractions. If there are alot of things happening around you, it's easy to miss out on the details. The DM shouldn't forget PCs outside the action, however, and should provide such characters what openings exist, if there is any furniture, if the room has pits, etc. - Things you would normally set focus on in such a situation.
- When a PC is asleep or dead, the DM can let its player move into an adjacent room, to avoid the player from hearing things that the PC doesn't. The same can be done if the group separates into smaller parties; the DM can lead one group at a time. That way, metagaming is more easily avoided. Don't take too long with either party, however - the game should be enjoyed together with everyone in the group.
- Don't let the players see dice rolls that would increase excitement, i.e. Spot, Hide or Search. That way, the players won't know whether or not they are actually successful. That way, the DM can roll dice when it's not needed, for example, if the PCs search through a room, but the DM knows there's nothing special in there. If the DM rolls for the player, the player doesn't know if there actually was anything in the room, or not, since he doesn't know whether he made the roll, or not. If the players walk through a dark corridor, the DM can make some "invisible" dice rolls, and pretend checking through some tables, which could lead the players to believe something is about to happen. It's all too common, that the players let their characters walk around as if they were peaceful sunday strollers, unaware of the danger actually surrounding them in the corridor. When the DM suddenly rolls a few hidden dice, the players automatically let their character unsheath their crossbows, swords and glaives in a symphony of rattle and clatter. The DM must nurture such nervous habits in their players, to make them play out their characters. Another reason for rolling hidden dice, is that it allows the DM to fudge unwanted results, if they conflict with what the DM had in mind.
- In many situations, you can skip Intelligence or persuasion rolls, and let the players themselves solve the problem/talk their way out of a situation. In those cases, the players' own intelligence and wit replace their PCs. If you notice a player having a bad day, make the roll, anyway. The PCs are, after all, much better than their players in many aspects, which should, just like the opposite, be reflected in-game.
- Describe fast-paced situations rapidly and with feeling! If the PCs are being hunted by a gang of orcs, the DM doesn't have to calculate modifiers and roll dice for every arrow the orcs let loose - it would take too much time and destroy the atmosphere. Instead, the DM can describe how the bowstrings clatter behind the PCs, how the arrows fly past them, and sparks fly as the arrows hit the walls of the cave. The DM can of course roll a few hidden dice, to pretend the orcs got to roll, so the PCs believe that the orcs just had bad luck. If the DM wants to make the situation more dangerous, and let the orcs have a 1/10 hit chance.
- Allow the players to draw maps. In complicated situations, the DM can help the players with difficult geometrical figure, or the placing of a few houses. Normally the DM shouldn't interfere in the map-making, however. If the players draw their own maps, not only is there the room for the human factor, but they can also add things the DM hadn't though of. Map-making bevomes interesting when the PCs are in the middle of a sewer complex, or a maze. With the help of the map, they could eventually find their way out with the help of the map.
Okay, that entire chapter was filled with tips and guidelines, but these were put in list form, so...
Please note that Drakar och Demoner is very much dungeon-crawling (or forest-crawling, or city-crawling). Many people consider it to be too rigid, and too focused on the rules to be playable.
There is alot of D&D in there, but also a little of the oh so undefinable "Swedish mentality." You would have to play through a session in order to see what I'm getting at, since it's basically what most people say they're playing. There is a difference, however.
I'll see if I can find a good example.
And also, please note that these are tips for the DM, and not in any way a definition of what RP should be. |
Edited by - Aewrik on 27 Sep 2007 15:57:20 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 15:48:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Aewrik
There is alot of D&D in there, but also a little of the oh so undefinable "Swedish mentality." You have to play through a session in order to see what I'm getting at, since it's basically what most people say they're playing. There is a difference, however.
I'll see if I can find a good example.
Yeah, it's another badly built confusing game like D&D. 
Argg.. DM is always right should always come with : the players can find another DM. I can't understand that some games don't encourage both players and DM to decide what the game will be about together. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 27 Sep 2007 16:11:34 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 15:58:11
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I don't think Drakar och Demoner is all that close to D&D (except for the name of course) , but that could just be me. Bare in mind that I am talking about the 80's versions of Drakar och Demoner (2nd or 3rd ed.?), that is, level-less, classless, skill-based, deadly and low on rules. I never came in a situation where it was problematic to house-rule or where the rules got in the way of the adventure with that system. The new version is not to my liking as that is far closer to D&D in my opinion. I still prefer to use the old version with my realms.
Strangely enough we never played it with "dungeon crawling" style, I didnt find out about that until I played D&D. |
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 16:40:41
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They used D100 up to third edition (the black box).
But yeah, DoD '91 (4th ed), and Chronopia (5th ed) are more like KULT rules-wise.
Trudvang dropped the levels, however. 6th ed. didn't sell well, since people thought it was too much D&D...
They have alot of RP-friendly aspects in Trudvang, but that's not what this topic is about : )
The old DoD is as close as you can get to D&D without going D&D, simply because there is no system/setting in between. Of course, I may have an very broad view as to what dungeon crawling is. For me, dungeon crawling is when combat is the highlight of an adventure (which is wrong).
I've had many great non-dungeon crawling adventures in Ereb Altor, from playing petty merchants, to demonologists travelling the Gray Halls. However, it often revolves around combat.
But I agree. "that kind" of dungeon crawling didn't exist before I purchased the D&D core books.
I'm not sure, but I think it has to do with the approach to roleplaying, or something.
If you compare DoD (up to fifth edition) with D&D, they're basically saying the same, and the rules revolve around the same things, but somehow, DoD has a completely different feeling.
Also, DoD is only fake high fantasy. Before being introduced to D&D, I had never owned a magic weapon, short of ordinary weapons enchanted with 'laddning' (storing magic in an item), or sometimes 'förtrolla vapen' (sort of like ordinary enchantments).
Of course, most groups had a wizard, but since magic is so incredibly expensive, they usually only knew two or three spells, until they introduced mini magic (sort of like cantrips). Also, magic is very taxing to cast.
That could be one of the things which sets the atmoshpere apart. In D&D, magic is so common that it's used in combat strategy and tactics. That wouldn't ever be possible in DoD, even though magic certainly is powerful.
I wonder if it might be the mystique which sets them apart...
And dragons : )
Dragons aren't just monsters in DoD. They're immortal, basically. A dragon is not a threat that you can deal with, it's a threat you have to adapt to and live with. |
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 16:47:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Aewrik
There is alot of D&D in there, but also a little of the oh so undefinable "Swedish mentality." You have to play through a session in order to see what I'm getting at, since it's basically what most people say they're playing. There is a difference, however.
I'll see if I can find a good example.
Yeah, it's another badly built confusing game like D&D.
Argg.. DM is always right should always come with : the players can find another DM. I can't understand that some games don't encourage both players and DM to decide what the game will be about together.
There tends to be a great deal of adversarial 'DM vs Players' in some games. I have never been a fan of that notion, since tabletop RPGs are co-operative ventures, not competitive ones, but again some people love that style (Yes, I hate fudging die rolls too, and try to do it only sparingly  ). I've found it to work only if the DM can switch that off when adjudicating rules, and turn it back on while plotting against the players. If not, well, get a new DM.
Back to the point at hand, "good" RP is a difficult thing to define at the best of times. I tend to view speaking in character and some improv-acting/describing of action as "good" RP, but I'm sure many of you would disagree. We can (and do) talk, argue and at times, scream at each other in character, but it ends in laughter and compliments after that scene is over, but my group has been together for nigh on fifteen years, so that could explain why and how we're able to do that.
As far as character evolution goes, I don't view a character becoming more devout (a priest who becomes a Saint, for example) as growing any less than a character who has a drastic fall from grace, provided a solid reason is given for that change of heart. The last thing I want to hear from out of nowhere is the LG dwarf fighter screaming "I slaughter the farmers, and torch their crops, praise Cyric!"  |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Kheris
As far as character evolution goes, I don't view a character becoming more devout (a priest who becomes a Saint, for example) as growing any less than a character who has a drastic fall from grace, provided a solid reason is given for that change of heart.
That's right (in fact, I would say it's even more interesting!). |
Edited by - Skeptic on 27 Sep 2007 17:17:09 |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:07:05
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| Roleplaying, to me, is the act of acting someone else's life. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:08:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kheris
There tends to be a great deal of adversarial 'DM vs Players' in some games. I have never been a fan of that notion, since tabletop RPGs are co-operative ventures, not competitive ones, but again some people love that style (Yes, I hate fudging die rolls too, and try to do it only sparingly ). I've found it to work only if the DM can switch that off when adjudicating rules, and turn it back on while plotting against the players. If not, well, get a new DM.
Competition in RPG is not bad in itself. I never said it can't be fun either. If D&D 4E is a more focused gamist RPG, I might even enjoy playing it. However, it won't offer me a framework for the playstyle I prefer and I described above.
What is bad is building a competitive game and saying that one of the the players (the DM) can cheat if he feels for it.
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Edited by - Skeptic on 27 Sep 2007 17:19:56 |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:08:40
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| that being said, no matter what WotC does with the Realms or the core rulebooks, it is still roleplaying, even if it is only made for monster encounters |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:16:31
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quote:
Originally posted by aravine
Roleplaying, to me, is the act of acting someone else's life.
Try to explain more what you like about it, I want to be sure about your favorite playstyle. |
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:18:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Kheris
There tends to be a great deal of adversarial 'DM vs Players' in some games. I have never been a fan of that notion, since tabletop RPGs are co-operative ventures, not competitive ones, but again some people love that style (Yes, I hate fudging die rolls too, and try to do it only sparingly ). I've found it to work only if the DM can switch that off when adjudicating rules, and turn it back on while plotting against the players. If not, well, get a new DM.
Competition in RPG is not bad in itself. I never said it can't be fun either. If D&D 4E is a more focused gamist RPG, I might even enjoy playing it. However, it won't offer me a framework for the playstyle I prefer and I described above.
What is bad is building a competitive game and saying that one of the the players (the DM) can cheat if he feels for it.
You have explained this far better than I did! 
However, to clarify my statement: I have never had anything resembling a good time with competition RPGs.
I didn't mean to sound like I was putting words in your mouth... Sorry  |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:34:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kheris
However, to clarify my statement: I have never had anything resembling a good time with competition RPGs.
I didn't mean to sound like I was putting words in your mouth... Sorry
No problem.
Some years ago, I ran a pretty sucessful gamist fantasy foam-swords LARP.
The idea of the game was pretty clear : We will challenge the players in every possible way. That included many physical challenges, like a night-long kayak trip or keeping a candle lit during a night while monsters attacked to douse it.
Of course it wasn't perfect, because some players wanted to be "heroes" and didn't have what was needed to do it (they failed many challenges) but the satisfaction of those who suceeded was really great.
However, it wasn't purely gamist, because the stakes of the challenges were based on the theme of the campaign and/or the background of the characters.
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Edited by - Skeptic on 27 Sep 2007 17:38:10 |
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 18:07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Kheris
However, to clarify my statement: I have never had anything resembling a good time with competition RPGs.
I didn't mean to sound like I was putting words in your mouth... Sorry
No problem.
Some years ago, I ran a pretty sucessful gamist fantasy foam-swords LARP.
The idea of the game was pretty clear : We will challenge the players in every possible way. That included many physical challenges, like a night-long kayak trip or keeping a candle lit during a night while monsters attacked to douse it.
Of course it wasn't perfect, because some players wanted to be "heroes" and didn't have what was needed to do it (they failed many challenges) but the satisfaction of those who suceeded was really great.
However, it wasn't purely gamist, because the stakes of the challenges were based on the theme of the campaign and/or the background of the characters.
That sounds like fun :)
I've never had the chance to LARP, but I've never been one for running around, so that may explain it |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 18:14:55
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From what I read over the web, LARP are really different based on the part of the world where they are. I know a lot about LARP in Québec, but I can't say a thing about USA ones. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 18:18:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Aewrik
They used D100 up to third edition (the black box).
But yeah, DoD '91 (4th ed), and Chronopia (5th ed) are more like KULT rules-wise.
Trudvang dropped the levels, however. 6th ed. didn't sell well, since people thought it was too much D&D...
They have alot of RP-friendly aspects in Trudvang, but that's not what this topic is about : )
The old DoD is as close as you can get to D&D without going D&D, simply because there is no system/setting in between. Of course, I may have an very broad view as to what dungeon crawling is. For me, dungeon crawling is when combat is the highlight of an adventure (which is wrong).
I've had many great non-dungeon crawling adventures in Ereb Altor, from playing petty merchants, to demonologists travelling the Gray Halls. However, it often revolves around combat.
But I agree. "that kind" of dungeon crawling didn't exist before I purchased the D&D core books.
I'm not sure, but I think it has to do with the approach to roleplaying, or something.
If you compare DoD (up to fifth edition) with D&D, they're basically saying the same, and the rules revolve around the same things, but somehow, DoD has a completely different feeling.
Also, DoD is only fake high fantasy. Before being introduced to D&D, I had never owned a magic weapon, short of ordinary weapons enchanted with 'laddning' (storing magic in an item), or sometimes 'förtrolla vapen' (sort of like ordinary enchantments).
Of course, most groups had a wizard, but since magic is so incredibly expensive, they usually only knew two or three spells, until they introduced mini magic (sort of like cantrips). Also, magic is very taxing to cast.
That could be one of the things which sets the atmoshpere apart. In D&D, magic is so common that it's used in combat strategy and tactics. That wouldn't ever be possible in DoD, even though magic certainly is powerful.
I wonder if it might be the mystique which sets them apart...
And dragons : )
Dragons aren't just monsters in DoD. They're immortal, basically. A dragon is not a threat that you can deal with, it's a threat you have to adapt to and live with.
There is one major difference in my opinion between the two systems. All skills, including magic and combat, are handled more or less the same and can be used as a focus. The experience is what you learn when using your skills, thereby rewarding all skills alike. I have had campaigns with gamblers, fishermen etc, who are great at their skills and passable to bad in combat. The adventures will then be to their need. This is not something that fits D&D so will.
As for spells, with the use of pshycic power instead of memorizing single spells a wizard with three or four spells is still a force to be reconed with. Man I love that system. |
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 20:34:05
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Yeah. It's hard for a fantasy system to beat DoD.
And you hit the nail, really. The only combat oriented in DoD character creation is calculating your hitpoints. It's not at all like the D20 system (or the AD&D rules, for that matter). It doesn't focus on combat, even though it is quite prevalent in the setting. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 23:31:03
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quote:
Originally posted by aravine
Roleplaying, to me, is the act of acting someone else's life.
And what if someone else has a really boring life ? |
Edited by - Skeptic on 27 Sep 2007 23:31:30 |
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Ugly is the new black
Seeker
Australia
81 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 00:07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
Roleplaying, to me, is the act of acting someone else's life.
And what if someone else has a really boring life ?
Can lives even be boring in Faerun? I mean, really, you can't swing a cat in the Forgotten Realms without hitting a band of bloodthirsty goblinoids, a flying ship, or some ancient cult. It seems a bit silly, I'll admit, to think that every single person in Faerun leads a life of adventure, but ... they kinda do.
We're talking about a world where magic is real. Where hordes of dark creatures seethe underground, just waiting for the right moment to strike. We're talking about a world where dragons can (and do) swoop down and obliterate entire nations beneath torrents of flame. I mean c'mon, it's a place where, not even 20 years ago, the deities themselves took physical form and walked the earth among men.
That seems pretty interesting to me.
love,
nathan. |
As he knelt on the ground with his brothers around and the taste of his blood on his tongue,
His brothers knelt by him and prayed him a prayer, and he smiled and he laughed and he sung,
"Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman's taken my life,
But what does it matter? For all men must die, and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 01:24:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugly is the new black
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
Roleplaying, to me, is the act of acting someone else's life.
And what if someone else has a really boring life ?
Can lives even be boring in Faerun? I mean, really, you can't swing a cat in the Forgotten Realms without hitting a band of bloodthirsty goblinoids, a flying ship, or some ancient cult. It seems a bit silly, I'll admit, to think that every single person in Faerun leads a life of adventure, but ... they kinda do.
We're talking about a world where magic is real. Where hordes of dark creatures seethe underground, just waiting for the right moment to strike. We're talking about a world where dragons can (and do) swoop down and obliterate entire nations beneath torrents of flame. I mean c'mon, it's a place where, not even 20 years ago, the deities themselves took physical form and walked the earth among men.
That seems pretty interesting to me.
love,
nathan.
Well, yeah, by our standards. But to the standards of folk in the Realms, some of that stuff is old hat. A Suzailian cobbler, for example, has prolly seen magic, and may have witnessed some odd event during the ToT. But he's not met any gods, goblinoids don't go into his shop, and Suzail hasn't seen much draconic activity, of late. So he's prolly busy living his life, and not finding it all that exciting.
Hell, look how our lives would look to him. We get up, we drive to work, we go home and watch TV, spend some time on the internet, and then go to bed. But to Jon Q Suzail, who has never ridden anything faster than a horse, merely doing 45 mph to get to work is remarkable. A box that allows instanteous communication around the world? Amazing. Another box that shows us any of several hundred "illusory" plays, whenever we want? That's something he's never even dreamed of!
So it's all relative. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 02:07:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Hell, look how our lives would look to him. We get up, we drive to work, we go home and watch TV, spend some time on the internet, and then go to bed. But to Jon Q Suzail, who has never ridden anything faster than a horse, merely doing 45 mph to get to work is remarkable. A box that allows instanteous communication around the world? Amazing. Another box that shows us any of several hundred "illusory" plays, whenever we want? That's something he's never even dreamed of!
So it's all relative.
Wow, I was trying to find a good way to explain it and you beat me to it completly.
Sim games (like what can become D&D if you only remove competition in it) can be boring as daily life, because in such games (and that's the goal behind them) there is no metagame force to get things moving.
To rely on the fact that the "exploration" of the setting is in itself exciting, is in fact, not enough (IME). |
Edited by - Skeptic on 28 Sep 2007 02:09:41 |
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Ugly is the new black
Seeker
Australia
81 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 02:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So it's all relative.
Wooly, that's amazingly inaccurate.
For starters, that cobbler from Cormyr, Jon Q. Suzail? He's seen way more than just a little magic; he lives in a city guarded 'round the clock by a division of War Wizards. His king, Azoun IV, was just slain defending the realm from destruction at the hands ghazneths (magic-draining winged creatures of great power), hordes of wicked humanoids loyal to the Zhentarim, and a huge "devil dragon" named Nalavarauthatoryl the Red. Even as we speak, worg-mounted goblins are trashing his country. Realistically speaking, if you look at the history of Cormyr, chances are pretty high that somebody close to Jon Q. Suzail was eaten by a troll who wandered out of the Vast Swamp.
Dude, magic is that guy's entire life.
Furthermore, you think he's never dreamed of the kinds of things we have? Like "illusory" plays? Wooly, Major Image is a 3rd level bard spell that functions in three-dimensions, with full sound and smell. It blows television away. You think he's never seen one of those at Shieldmeet?
Travel faster than a horse? Wooly, he lives in a world where portals dot the landscape, allowing travel between to points at instantanous speeds.
A box that allows for communication across long distances? He could have the local Thayan Enclave enchant Whispering Wind onto any item he wanted -his own personal walkie-talkie- for like 150 gold at the most.
Believe me, Jon Q. Suzail is not impressed by anything we have to offer.
love,
nathan. |
As he knelt on the ground with his brothers around and the taste of his blood on his tongue,
His brothers knelt by him and prayed him a prayer, and he smiled and he laughed and he sung,
"Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman's taken my life,
But what does it matter? For all men must die, and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!" |
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 04:02:20
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Nono, of course not. There's one thing to point out, however: the things Wooly pointed out are everyday things for us. We don't think about them.
I can bet that for Jon Q. Suzail to buy this enchanted item for a grand 150 GOLD coins, he'd have to need it pretty badly. After all, cobblers aren't that well paid.
To point out the difference:
People don't use portals for everyday transportation, the way we use cars. Portals are not only dangerous, but often guarded.
People don't just come home and "flip on" their personal bard. What you're describing, seeing Major Images at shieldmeet, is probably what the cinemas were back in the 20s. Once every four years, or so.
And finally, even though Thayan enclaves exist, common folk don't go there, for several reasons. The first is, how prevalent magic may be, exotic things sparks fear into most people. I don't think that just because people may be comfortable with magic, they're comfortable with every type of character, or every type of ethnicity of the realms. After all, the Wizards of Thay shave all their body hair, tattoo themselves (often with demonic symbols), speak with a peculiar accent, speak above their potential customers' heads (in mulhorandi), etc. etc.
Furthermore, most people never see a gold coin in their life, and prefer safety before taking a loan to someone they don't know very well. Perhaps owning a magical item is seen with suspicion, for that reason? It could bring social complications.
Nobles are another matter, but Jon Q. Suzail is probably not born of noble blood.
At least, that's how I prefer to view the realms. Making magic too common, reduces its effect on the world. If the peasant on that farm the PCs pass by swoops around on a flying carpet, or has broomsticks carrying water from the well, the world becomes much less attractive.
Magic should be impressive and exclusive. The PCs are enjoying a great privilege in being able to acquire magic items.
Back to bed. 
EDIT: Oh, and on the peasant thingy, I would play it out more like "As you pass by a field, you can see how a farmer stops his plow, leans against it and shoots you a curious glare. You're not sure whether he is impressed by your shining armours, or barely wishing you off his land, but he seems to grit his teeth and curse softly he returns to, in his own field, proudly force the plow forward through the dirt."
Now back to bed... |
Edited by - Aewrik on 28 Sep 2007 04:15:43 |
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Ugly is the new black
Seeker
Australia
81 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 04:29:49
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Aewick, I agree with you 100%. I'm only trying to illustrate that the kinds of things Wooly was describing are not fiction to this guy; but rather, a very real part of his world. Maybe not his everyday world, but certainly, everything I described before happens around him on a day-to-day basis.
love,
nathan. |
As he knelt on the ground with his brothers around and the taste of his blood on his tongue,
His brothers knelt by him and prayed him a prayer, and he smiled and he laughed and he sung,
"Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman's taken my life,
But what does it matter? For all men must die, and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!" |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 12:54:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
Roleplaying, to me, is the act of acting someone else's life.
Try to explain more what you like about it, I want to be sure about your favorite playstyle.
i like a more plot centered D&D, much like you would find in a video game such as final fantasy, or more relevently, Balder's Gate |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 03:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
The whole marketing tactic of "all the previous editions suck in their own way, but 4e is really cool" really annoys me. Please, can you quit telling us how bad the game is? Up until GenCon you were 100% supportive of 3E and now it sucks? Get real. Focus on telling us what 4E has to offer rather than the deficiencies of earlier editions. Personally, I know how great 3E is and how it works perfectly for my group.
Let me also add that if this statement is for real:
"Chris doesn't immediately tell us to roll for initiative. That's a sign, right? We're gonna get a chance to negotiate with it, get the information we need to get to this city, and then kill the dracolich and get its phat lewtz."
...and not a joke, and this is one of the designers? 4E, count me out.
Does he also mention if 4E is going to be REALLY COOL? That's what's most important to me: how cool the game is going to be. I also want to hear about what my non-attack power options will be. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 03:30:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, it seems like I have made a bad job of playing D&D (and DM'ing it)up through the years; I have done everything wrong.
Well, D&D is probably not the best game for the major part of the posters here. (IMHO D&D isn't a really good game at all)
Also, you just did the best you could do with D&D because you didn't know anything else (it was the same for me!).
But if you always changed D&D rules to make it fit your playstyle in those years, why not trying something else ?
If they're having fun, who cares if it's "not really" D&D? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 03:47:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugly is the new black
Believe me, Jon Q. Suzail is not impressed by anything we have to offer.
I think he would be.  I think our modern world is pretty damn amazing (not always in a good way), and I live there.
Nevertheless, as to the question, "What if the person you are roleplaying leads a boring life?" Well, who really wants to play as a character who leads a ho-hum life? That takes away the whole point in playing... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 29 Sep 2007 03:47:49 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 03:48:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
If they're having fun, who cares if it's "not really" D&D?
Well, of course there is no bad wrong fun
But, maybe they could have a lot more fun with much less work using another game |
Edited by - Skeptic on 29 Sep 2007 03:49:41 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 03:51:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
If they're having fun, who cares if it's "not really" D&D?
Well, of course there is no bad wrong fun
But, maybe they could have a lot more fun with much less work using another game
Which they might well tweak anyway. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Topic |
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What is roleplaying?
