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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 23:55:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I prefer books as...well...books, sure a pdf of my Pathfinder stuff is nice, but still gimme a book on paper any time of the week!
Me too, I just don't really see it being economically feasible in the longterm. Hopefully I'm wrong but all I've heard is how much the price is going up for publishing efforts.
I can't even really use pdfs so much, I can for bits of lore and all but if somethings going to be in my game I still need a hard copy. |
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Ithil
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 04:59:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Ithil
My problem with DDi is not my purchase of it but my players'. If I steer them away from campaign or adventure articles I don't want them to see, they get jipped. Why can't there be an option to just subscribe to the rules updates or Dragon articles?
The problem with that approach is manyfold, so to speak.
This concept: players only get player stuff... that's impossible, from a practical angle. Who can decide? Not the publisher. Plus there would be another monthly rate to implement this, and I think WotC has enough problems as it is to get this baby off the ground.
Also, nothing prevents your players, or mine, or anyone else's to buy the MM and whathaveyou. Should vendors ask for a player's or GM's license?
There are certain things that are specifically designed for the DM -- adventures, for instance. Prior to DDI, there was no problem keeping that separate, you bought Dungeon on its own. And, players would not typically purchase campaign supplements, again easily avoided prior to DDI. As it is, my players have voted against DDI because of the probable imbalance of player materials to DM materials. If Dungeon is included in DDI (it is) and campaign articles are included in DDI (they are), those are pieces of the subscription that are "lost" to players if they choose to avoid them for the sake of maintaining integrity in the game. $10-15/month isn't worth it to my players.
The billing aspects of differing subscription models in this domain should be trivial. |
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Cyria
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 08:03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I prefer books as...well...books, sure a pdf of my Pathfinder stuff is nice, but still gimme a book on paper any time of the week!
This reminds me: what about the lasting value of DDI? If it gets pulled, things like the game table and character generator will presumably no longer be available. Now, there were promises that Dragon/Dungeon would be put up as compilation pdfs. That way you still have something even if the site goes down, though it's not as tangibly yours as a book would be. But last I checked, the first Dragon "issue" had been made a pdf - in 07. Nothing since then, and nothing in Dungeon. It's only a few days since I last heard grumbling by people who've been wanting those articles in "issue" format and had to continue their wait.
Is DDI going to provide compilations of updates, say, every other month? A FR update compilation twice a year? Personally, I do feel that if I pay for articles I should be able to download a decent version of them. If I have to log in to DDI every time I want to check something, it removes much of the convenience in keeping a laptop near when gaming. It's time spent on something that would have gotten done much faster if I'd only needed to do a pdf search. I hope WOTC has thought of how to handle these things, because I know I'm not the only gamer who's talking about such issues. But considering the state of online Dragon/Dungeon and pdf promises, I'm not too optimistic. This past half year should have been used to convince people the online magazines will be worthwhile. Instead, I have witnessed neglect convincing me that my kind of online content (Dragon/Dungeon articles) will not be delivered with enough quality and regularity that I could confidently feel I'd get my money's worth of 3.5 convertable ideas or even just enjoyable D&D-related reading out of DDI. I can't say that good online magazines would definitely have made me go 4E, but I do feel good Dragon/Dungeon would have kept me hanging around for longer. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 13:13:38
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I'm just catching up on the last few days of the "Ask Rich" thread on the WotC forums (I lurk there just to read the stuff that can't be posted elsewhere)... And I see him say that Chosen of other deities are fine and will likely be available options for PCs, but being a Chosen of Mystra will obviously not be available.
Did I miss something, here? I'd thought that part of the problem of the Chosen of Mystra, in addition to the misperception of them being the Justice League of the Realms, was that they led to the Chosen arms race, where every designer had to create a Chosen of his particular deity, even if it didn't make sense to do so. But now it looks like the designer's thought process is "Chosen are fine, just not Mystra's Chosen."
That makes me madder than them wiping out Mystra's Chosen! It's like they simply don't understand why Chosen exist... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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Ithil
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 15:27:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm just catching up on the last few days of the "Ask Rich" thread on the WotC forums (I lurk there just to read the stuff that can't be posted elsewhere)... And I see him say that Chosen of other deities are fine and will likely be available options for PCs, but being a Chosen of Mystra will obviously not be available.
Did I miss something, here? I'd thought that part of the problem of the Chosen of Mystra, in addition to the misperception of them being the Justice League of the Realms, was that they led to the Chosen arms race, where every designer had to create a Chosen of his particular deity, even if it didn't make sense to do so. But now it looks like the designer's thought process is "Chosen are fine, just not Mystra's Chosen."
That makes me madder than them wiping out Mystra's Chosen! It's like they simply don't understand why Chosen exist...
Maybe the problem wasn't with the Chosen concept as much as it was with the Chosen individuals? In the podcast (#22) they cited a difficulty for authors in having to account for the whereabouts of the Chosen.
Please don't misunderstand my use of the word "problem" as my stating there is a problem. They've never been a problem for me. I either ignore them, downplay them or use them as plot devices. I never feel forced to use them. |
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Cyril Lokner
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
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Cyria
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:03:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ithil
Maybe the problem wasn't with the Chosen concept as much as it was with the Chosen individuals? In the podcast (#22) they cited a difficulty for authors in having to account for the whereabouts of the Chosen.
Please don't misunderstand my use of the word "problem" as my stating there is a problem. They've never been a problem for me. I either ignore them, downplay them or use them as plot devices. I never feel forced to use them.
I think the problem was the perception of the Chosen. It seems to me that instead of trying to clarify how things work, the 4E developers threw up their hands in frustration and got rid of the Chosen rather than try convincing people that the "Realms munchkin, Mystra bad" meme isn't the most accurate description of the setting.
I haven't found the Chosen an insurmountable problem either. I've never run into a Chosen either as a player or in my own campaigns and I don't feel that their absence has shattered the believability of the story. To use one of these real-life examples, when I have problems with my laptop I don't expect Bill Gates or even Linus Torvalds to fix it for me. I call the woman whose computer store is a 15-minute walk away and she'll take care of the problem just fine. So why would the villagers of Randomdale sit around waiting for Elminster when there are eager young adventures to be found at the inn? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:09:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm just catching up on the last few days of the "Ask Rich" thread on the WotC forums (I lurk there just to read the stuff that can't be posted elsewhere)... And I see him say that Chosen of other deities are fine and will likely be available options for PCs, but being a Chosen of Mystra will obviously not be available.
Did I miss something, here?
Great points, all, but I think the key here is that stuff like Chosen titles are (presumably) going to be PC-only. If that's the case, then players can't complain that they are being overshadowed AND they can play "Chosen of" characters to their heart's content.
Of course, if authors start creating all these Chosen NPCs again, then yeah, that'd be pretty unfair. And I probably don't need to say this, but I'll say it just in case--I'm not serving as Rich Baker's apologist, here, just trying to interpret what he's saying from an objective standpoint.
Most people already know my opinion about getting rid of the Chosen of Mystra. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:53:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyril Lokner
I will be using The Candlekeep Compendiums as my canon source from here on out. I believe from many of the comments made on these boards, that many of us prefer the collective works of fellow scribes, over where WoTC is taking the Realms. My concern is that should 4E Realms tank, could WoTC look at Candlekeep and point their fingers while yelling "copywrite infringment"? If so, how can we protect ourselves and the Realms that we have helped create?
The "copyright" issue concerning FR content in the Compendiums is always something we should be weary about. But until we know for sure that there's a legal complication brewing, I think it's safe to continue focusing on the development of these PDF works, and promoting them as one of the last few bastions of pre-4e Realmslore anywhere on the web -- "Our last best hope for pre-Spellplague Realmslore" [sorry, I had a Babylon 5 moment there]. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 17:14:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
After reading the Q&A on WoTC website concerning the DDI, I believe it is worth $9.95 a month. The Dragon and Dungeons magazines are just the side dishes, the tools, applications which make up the virtual game table is the main meal. My current gaming group is literally scatted across Texas, we get together once a month to play if the stars happen to be aligned. The digital game table would allow us to get together more often and be able to ignore certain little things like the cost of fuel. A round trip to Austin on my motorcycle would cost me $28.28 (the travel time to Austin is 3.3 hours BTW)
Keep in mind the DDI sounds good but no one really knows if it is going to work as intended once it comes out. And I reserve the right to change my mind if the bloody thing fails to work.
The thing is, all I want are the magazines, at the very least, WotC should have let Paizo continue to write/edit/etc the magazines for them and then posted them online, rather than this crap that they have given us. And there should be a separate (cheaper) subscription for just the mags then. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Tazak Nymar
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 18:49:35
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Well met fellow realmsfans 
Though it has taken me some time to read through all the posts here I must concur with those that wonder if the 4e Realms are indeed the realms and not some strange flesh_golem-like creature assembled from the parts deemed profitable by those currently running it.
As far as I have been able to tell, the new realms are there for new customers be they people who didn't like them before or new people with issues that prevent them from accepting the extensive realms of the present. They are also there for the next writer who will come up with "Rianna the Green" or somesuch new character who might develop a following and perhaps help bury the establishment in the minds of consumers, certainly providing a clean slate for new talents to work on is a good idea (for the writer and the publisher, less so for the player unless he happens to be a novel reader and happens to like the new stories more than the old ones.)
The realms are quite extensive and I suspect not all that easy to editorialize. It would probably require a team of editors to keep continuity going without glaring errors. I believe that improoving the quality and profitability of the novels which seem to be the main money maker for the realms line; would be quite hard if editors enforce the continuity of the reams as is/was. I do not believe such a team of editors exists within WotC. As many of the people in charge are also in charge of the timely and profitable producctions of expansion books for the realms. A job they probably do under the pressure of executives that care only about the bottom line and not accuracy of the product in regards to realms continuity.
I believe that all the Realms Shattering Events of late where not so much the origin of a problem (the need to wipe out as much continuity as possible) but actually a vehicle to get to the point of wipeout.
I believe that part of the problem with the chosen was their "perfection". We are in a day and age where people demand that their mediocrity be celebrated and true heroes are simply not popular anymore. If the chosen had been consistently outsmarted, jilted in romantic relationships, defeated in combat and whined about things in a "humane" way. They would be much more popular and would not be destroyed.
The wiping out of the Old Empires and the whatever it is they seek to do with my beloved Thay is just a shrinking of the reams in order to prevent balkanization in my opinion. How so ? Well in one checks the origin of the discontinuation of the settings that didn't make it to 3rd edition, one sees that things had come to a point where one had Darksun players; Ravenloft players; Forgotten Realms players; Dragonlance players, etc. Thus TSR had the production costs of several settings but not a necesarily bigger consumer base because of it. Or do you really think they would have gotten rid of these settings if they made enough money ? Thus producing a very good Old Empired, Maztica or Jungles of Chult product might even be counter productive in the long run.
A new smaller Forgotten Realms is easier to run for the novices they want to attract (or so they think), Easier to manage for the staff they have, easier for new authors to come up with the new "Rianna the Green", "Magus the Shady", "Ungar the Strong", etc.
The "new is better" crowd will always be hungering after terms like "fresh", "breath of fresh air", "back to basics" and "new and improoved". So a minimal base of customers is always secure for these people. Those of us that deviate from this norm are simply being written off. The fact that we denounce the travesty for what it is, just makes them write us off faster. They after all, have their needs and apparently we are not meeting them.
As bad as I think this situation is, there is still a solution in my opinion but not necesarily a fun or easy one.
There has to be a timeline that keeps the world alive with new characters being introduced, old ones being killed, new wars starting, new developements occuring, etc. This in my opinion has always been the weakest point of Forgotten Realms and all the other D&D settings. It should be clear that WotC refuses to do this for Forgotten Reams and has shattered them in order to maybe do this with the new setting. Should a league of allied DM's ever appear and take on this job, they would probably bring out enthusiasm in the same level or exceeding that of the TSR days (At least for me and hopefully for others as well).
As for the designers and authors that are so kind as to peek at our posts from time to time.
I really think you work to answer the necessities I mentioned above. But for me a fan of Forgotten Realms who is careful with what he buys and aware of continuity. In this new 4e Forgotten Realms, asides from maybe new characters. Is there something for me ?
These are my humble opinions as I have thought them. I do not claim that they are more than opinions and english is not my native language so I may have butchered a sentence or two.
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 19:28:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Tazak Nymar
There has to be a timeline that keeps the world alive with new characters being introduced, old ones being killed, new wars starting, new developements occuring, etc. This in my opinion has always been the weakest point of Forgotten Realms and all the other D&D settings. It should be clear that WotC refuses to do this for Forgotten Reams and has shattered them in order to maybe do this with the new setting. Should a league of allied DM's ever appear and take on this job, they would probably bring out enthusiasm in the same level or exceeding that of the TSR days (At least for me and hopefully for others as well).
Thank you for your eloquent (insider´s?) appraisal of the situation, Tazak Nymar.
What do people think of this proposal? Is it reasonable to have a alternate Realms history developed by a joint (volunteer) task force of DMs? How would even the starting point be agreed upon, given the existing widespread discontent with much of the post 3rd Edition history that has already come out? What would the legal implications for the task force participants be? FR novelists would, I assume, have no choice but to follow the official WoftC line.
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 25 Apr 2008 19:38:53 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 20:52:59
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Just because I find it rather interesting, I present for you a quote by Rich Baker, in regards to someone 'questioning' his lore by mentioning Ed's lore posted here at CK, which appears to be in disagreement -
quote:
Originally posted by WotC_RichBaker on the WotC boards
No worries, Asgetrion, although I'm really a little OK, then... well, first, I'd like to know who exactly "The Historian" is before I agree that he's in a position to accurately cite the 20-year-old-plus contract. People hiding behind screen names claim to have inside information all the time. Heck, I was the Realms creative director for years, and I have only the broadest familiarity with the terms of the deal.
It just seems a 'tad' irreverent, to refer to Ed's 'deal' like it was some crusty, old, best-forgotten thing... 
Although I did agree with his point - the company HAS changed hands TWICE since then, and the originally agreement may in fact be null and void, if brought before a Judge.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
When this marketing plan fails, Hasbro is going to either shut down or sell off WotC. Hopefully those new owners will be gamers, and not suits.
Not so - Pokémon and MtG make a lot of money for the company, as do the novels. They may very well shut-down their D&D division if this thing tanks badly, but they will most likely keep the FR IP just for the lucrative novels.
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
3 books then out eh? Looks like Candlekeep is going to have to step up to the plate and fill the void in 2009+
Funny, but now instead of 'alternative lore', CKC may become THE place for FR lore. 
Which of course worries me, considering that they (Hasbro's lawyers) may eventually come to the conclusion that 3e FR is 4e FR's biggest competitor, and go after anyone who still supports it.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That makes me madder than them wiping out Mystra's Chosen! It's like they simply don't understand why Chosen exist...
In fact, Mytra's Chosen were supposed to be the ONLY Chosen... until every other writer decided they needed NPCs as cool as Eds, and latched onto the name.
Since none of those 'other Chosen' ever became as 'big' as Ed's, the next logical step was to kill off Ed's, making their creations 'cooler' by elimination.
Its like being an Olympic Iceskater, and instead of trying to be the best you can be, you jealousy try to break the leg of the other girl who is better then you.
Which means we may very well see video of Chris Perkins Honeymoon Night on the Internet this time next year.
But seriously, am I the only person who has noted a SYSTEMATIC 'culling' of Ed's lore (along with some of Elaine's, as well)? It appears to me that they are trying to do to Ed what TSR did to Gygax - slowly but surely remove any of his 'properties' from the trademark.
And all of THAT, just to give us two sourcebooks... it's just SO sad...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Apr 2008 20:54:04 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 21:02:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
What do people think of this proposal? Is it reasonable to have a alternate Realms history developed by a joint (volunteer) task force of DMs?
That's what some people say are already trying to do, actually.
Tazak, welcome to Candlekeep! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Apr 2008 21:03:07 |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 21:13:34
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quote:
That's what some people say are already trying to do, actually.
Links, please?  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 21:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by lowtech
Links, please?
Will get you one link that I know of later, unless someone else gets it first, but if you want...
Go to the WotC forums, specifically the FR forums, and look for a prominent poster named Alediran (shouldn't be too hard to find). I believe he has a link to the Realms Vault in his signature--it's the project he started to continue the "Classic" Realms.
Hope that helps. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 21:24:44
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quote:
Originally posted by lowtech
quote:
That's what some people say are already trying to do, actually.
Links, please?
Yes, details please. If this is so, and these people are serious, legally savvy and thoughtful in their approach; and if indeed Ed is being slowly pushed out, the next couple years could be very interesting indeed.
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 21:38:08
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Actually, I've been tossing a couple of ideas back and forth...in my head, here in the 'keep, and with some of the creators. Not all the same, mind you. What the creators got is not the same as what my Realms re-imagined thread was all about and so on.
I haven't sat down and got working on that again, yet, and I'm still waiting for Alaundo to reply to my query if such a project would be wanted for the CKC.
As it stands, it is more an alternate take on some established lore and a more "logical" take on the entire Spellplague nonsense. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 22:05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Its like being an Olympic Iceskater, and instead of trying to be the best you can be, you jealousy try to break the leg of the other girl who is better then you.
Which means we may very well see video of Chris Perkins Honeymoon Night on the Internet this time next year.
uhh.... only if there is a very, very, very attractive lady in it, too. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Odysseus
Seeker
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 00:40:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
When this marketing plan fails, Hasbro is going to either shut down or sell off WotC. Hopefully those new owners will be gamers, and not suits.
Not so - Pokémon and MtG make a lot of money for the company, as do the novels. They may very well shut-down their D&D division if this thing tanks badly, but they will most likely keep the FR IP just for the lucrative novels.
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
3 books then out eh? Looks like Candlekeep is going to have to step up to the plate and fill the void in 2009+
Funny, but now instead of 'alternative lore', CKC may become THE place for FR lore.
I'm starting to wonder if the FR changes aren't more to do with Salvatores demands than 4E. If they are only doing 3 books and out. Why make the changes?
Changing the setting , so that they can continue with a profitable line of books, at least makes business sense. |
“Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody’s power, that is not easy.” —Aristotle |
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Wyvernspur
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 00:41:16
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I was thinking about Halarua and the info about it getting blown up.
I was just wondering if a nation of wizards that according to all sourcebooks is predominantly ruled by diviners didn't see this explosion coming. I imagine that there could be a Halaruan Fleet of ships that survived and now either flys around as a nomadic nation studying magic or some kind of magical air pirates that swoop down and carry of magical items for study and treasure. Or maybe they reunite with Nimbral to form some extra magical nation.
I don't know I just don't think its fair to delete the whole nation. I mean did they take away all the shades powers or make their floating city explode? I doubt it.
Sigh...I'll still end up buying the new books but that doesn't mean I'll be happy.
P.S. I noticed that despite the "Nuking" of big NPC's Elminster is still around shouldn't he be left in peace. Unless of course he gets to kick Shar's butt and ascend to be the new God of Magic. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1736 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 03:53:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Cyril Lokner
I will be using The Candlekeep Compendiums as my canon source from here on out. I believe from many of the comments made on these boards, that many of us prefer the collective works of fellow scribes, over where WoTC is taking the Realms. My concern is that should 4E Realms tank, could WoTC look at Candlekeep and point their fingers while yelling "copywrite infringment"? If so, how can we protect ourselves and the Realms that we have helped create?
The "copyright" issue concerning FR content in the Compendiums is always something we should be weary about. But until we know for sure that there's a legal complication brewing, I think it's safe to continue focusing on the development of these PDF works, and promoting them as one of the last few bastions of pre-4e Realmslore anywhere on the web -- "Our last best hope for pre-Spellplague Realmslore" [sorry, I had a Babylon 5 moment there].
I'm no lawyer, but I suspect all will be fine. There's two things at issue:
A) As long as the Compendiums don't have material block-copied out of published books, you're fine.
B) As long as you're not making money off of this (or trying to), any discussions and compilations should be considered falling under "fair use" and not an infringement of copyrights.
Now if someone were to try and publish the Candlekeep Compendiums, that's a whole `nother matter (as the guy behind that Harry Potter website has found out).
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 03:59:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I'm no lawyer, but I suspect all will be fine. There's two things at issue:
A) As long as the Compendiums don't have material block-copied out of published books, you're fine.
Indeed. Paged references can work just as well. Provided the reader has access to the relevant sources, of course.
quote:
B) As long as you're not making money off of this (or trying to), any discussions and compilations should be considered falling under "fair use" and not an infringement of copyrights.
Indeed. At most, the only "currency" Candlekeep is making of the Compendiums, is notoriety, effectively reminding readers, scribes, and FR fans, that Candlekeep is *the* Library of Forgotten Realms lore on the web. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 05:04:44
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Does "block references" mean that if you correctly site the published work
and give credit to the author its fine, or does it mean that no previously published
materials outside public access is allowed. This is kind of big for what I'm working on. |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 06:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
Does "block references" mean that if you correctly site the published work
and give credit to the author its fine, or does it mean that no previously published
materials outside public access is allowed. This is kind of big for what I'm working on.
Yes, what "fair use" legislation applies here? I imagine it would be the same as or similar to other not-for-profit sectors such as academic publishing and research. It would be wise to abide carefully by the appropriate copyright legislation(s) to avoid the possibility of litigation. I wonder if it would helpful to post a summary or a link to the policy, so that Candlekeep scribes working on alternate FR Lore can make sure they abiding by fair use rules and avoiding legal quagmires.
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 26 Apr 2008 06:16:35 |
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Tazak Nymar
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 15:20:06
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quote:
Tazak, welcome to Candlekeep!
Thank you it feels nice I admit.
quote:
Thank you for your eloquent (insider´s?) appraisal of the situation, Tazak Nymar.
What do people think of this proposal? Is it reasonable to have a alternate Realms history developed by a joint (volunteer) task force of DMs? How would even the starting point be agreed upon, given the existing widespread discontent with much of the post 3rd Edition history that has already come out? What would the legal implications for the task force participants be? FR novelists would, I assume, have no choice but to follow the official WoftC line.
Afet
I do not claim insider's knowledge but I do remember seeing what I wrote about the discontinuation of some settings in a web site. I will provide links to it later if I find it again though.
The starting point of an alternate timeline is something that would have to be decided by the participating community at large. I would dare say that one of the biggest division among those that do not currently accept the 4e changes is whether to implement them in a way that makes sense to them or to simply reject them altogether.
The legal issues of possibly using a stat that is in a book and therefore a no-no. Is one that can be used to the community's advantage.
I'll give you an example of what I mean.
Imagine that someone or something attacks the Thayvian enclave in Westgate and the city true to it's somewhat chaotic nature, can't produce the culprits in a convincing fashion. The Red Wizards ally with Sembia and take over Westgate, working out a plan to pay off the Night Masks so that they don't attack Red Wizard and/or Sembian interests and give some nations like Cormyr preferential treatment as to deter any backlash at prospect of slowly but surely monopolizing trade in the Dragon Coast.
This is unlikely to sit well with nations such as Amn and to a lesser degree Calimsham who would be "limited" to trading normally with the Sword Coast and Moonshaes. The cormyrean regent could see this as a threat to Cormyr and decide to launch a reprisal to either Sembia or Westgate itself, maybe aided by Amn and Calimsham and maybe even Tethyr. The end result can be arranged in any way by having Red Wizard politics spoil the project as usual; having the Zulkirs agree to make up a new arrangement and divide the benefits equally to reduce infighting to a minimum; and the entrance of possible wildcards such as PC's.
This scenario isn't a "Realms Shattering Event." It doesn't require specific stats so anyone who adopted the Thayvian enclaves can use it whether they use 1e, 2e, 3.x e or even BECMI or Rules Cyclopedia D&D.
It is simply a new developement that could happen and could provide entretainment for those involved.
I figure a decent story could even be written about it if someone cared to.
This kind of developemnt is essentially what I think the realms could have used rather than the 4e debacle. I still think that the 4e Forgotten Reams guys at WotC where adressing the necessities I mentioned above, thus I do not blame them or wish them ill. But I really think something along this line, though in a grander scale would have been better for the realms.
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Edited by - Tazak Nymar on 26 Apr 2008 15:23:15 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 15:41:18
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I'll not rewrite the entire timeline...yet, for a couple of reasons:
a) I haven't read most of the current trilogies
b) some of what I've read is fine by me and hence needs no reworking
c) some events (like WotSQ) need, IMHO, "fixing" as they haven't been played out to their fullest potential
But when I re-work stuff it will have ripple effects, and consequences that were shied away from in the "official" Realms-timeline will be dealt with in a serious manner.
Sage, Wooly, I tried to reach Alaundo regarding my re-writing the latest Realms-history with no reply as of yet. Can you please ask him to get in touch with me via email.
Thanks
P.S. I am well aware of my irreverent way of addressing topics at time, but be assured that when I get to this project you'll see no irreverence whatsoever, unless it is in a sidebar... but there won't be any snide remarks toward the FR 4e design team because I basically said all that needs to be said in me RANTs. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Caedwyr
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 17:24:32
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The website mentioned earlier in this thread for a group working on an alternate timeline/classic realms project that started over at Gleemax is http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/. I believe you need to create an account to view all the content on the site.
The latest work on the Elven Netbook (and the entire thing) is also hosted on the site. |
Edited by - Caedwyr on 28 Apr 2008 17:28:40 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 17:35:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Sage, Wooly, I tried to reach Alaundo regarding my re-writing the latest Realms-history with no reply as of yet. Can you please ask him to get in touch with me via email.
Consider it done. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2008 : 00:10:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Odysseus
I'm starting to wonder if the FR changes aren't more to do with Salvatores demands than 4E.
I doubt it--why single out Salvatore? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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4e FR
