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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 00:52:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
I used to snicker when people complained about the realms being "nuked" and when they took offense to the authors for using the term "nuke" figuring it was just an overstatement...
Does that mean I can snicker now at the people who were saying stuff like "the Realms probably aren't going to change that much"?
Neh, I don't have it in me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 31 Jan 2008 00:53:12 |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 01:00:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
I believe Ed himself has made references to the lost meaning of Abeir...
It may not have been his idea though. Those references you mention are relatively recent (unless there are some that are quite old?).
The rumor is that there was a hint in the OGB, but an editor supposedly changed it so much that it became unrecognizable as such.
DB |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 10:38:11
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Well here's the low down on the "spellplague" before it even was the "spellplague" from Ed himself. Given that the 100 year jump and the Abeir returning thingies are now in the public domain, this post isn't spoiling anything. I'll post this in Ed's thread also for those who don't pick it up here.
There are actually THREE references, all of which will
really only be understandable "after the fact." One of
them is the "Smashed the black star" curiosity that
several scribes have been so fascinated by, and
another is a CYCLOPEDIA heading (yes, just the
heading). [Ed was referring to the "Abeir-Toril" heading]
The third, "main" reference is on page 40 of the DM'S
SOURCEBOOK, referring to Mellomir's claim of finding
an "ancient" and "magical" treasure in the vicinity of
the Haunted Halls. The dwarves vanishing over the
years were fleeing the Realms through gates (portals,
linking to other worlds / alternate Prime Material
Planes) that are not in the Haunted Halls, but can be
reached through the Halls (I think the maps I gave you
at GenCon included the "Whisper's Crypt" level, yes?).
The dwarves were departing to avoid the coming
Spellplague, and the monsters and adventurers
vanishing into and emerging from the Halls were also
using the gates.
The original text of this entry had Mellomir referring
to an unspecified "message of fire."
The original turnover of FR1 THE HAUNTED HALLS OF
EVENINGSTAR included a magical "message" formed by
flames dancing in midair that briefly appeared to
anyone entering the many-pillared room of Encounter
31, that said this: "A great storm of magic is coming,
that will twist or maim many. Beware the Black Star."
It was edited out because the TSR designers of the day
thought it too substantial to print without providing
something of an explanation (that there was no
wordcount left in the module to provide, and that
would open a can of worms they wanted to avoid). This
same message appears in front of the gates used the
dwarves, monsters, and adventurers, whenever they are
approached from the "Realms" side.
So there you have it. Too mangled and chopped-down for
anyone studying the Old Grey Box to recognize without
this explanation. Sorry. I DID warn everyone it would
be nigh-impossible to spot, beforehand.
By the way, there's something else in FR0 tied to
this: Sabirine's Specular. A Spell Engine provides a
tiny "shelter" from Spellplague effects around itself,
and Sabirine chose to die rather than embrace lichdom
because she didn't want to endure years of undeath
only to be swept away in the Spellplague, or twisted
and maimed and left in a world ravaged by the
Spellplague.
The Spellplague term isn't mine (I called it "the
Doom," or "the Coming of the Black Star" or "THE
Spellstorm"), and I always intended this to be a
mythical always-in-the-future bogey-tale.
There you have it.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 14:31:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
I used to snicker when people complained about the realms being "nuked" and when they took offense to the authors for using the term "nuke" figuring it was just an overstatement...
Does that mean I can snicker now at the people who were saying stuff like "the Realms probably aren't going to change that much"? Neh, I don't have it in me.
It's pretty much everything I fear, I feel sick. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 15:07:26
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| Well...I've got enough stuff to play for decades, so I'm officially out of the 4e stuff, but I'll continue to read the novels to salvage what I like |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 15:26:21
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Spellplague term isn't mine (I called it "the
Doom," or "the Coming of the Black Star" or "THE
Spellstorm"), and I always intended this to be a
mythical always-in-the-future bogey-tale.
There you have it.
-- George Krashos
Thanks for the explanation. Although, what exactly is the Black Star? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 15:31:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Cyric? Sun, star, that sort of thing?
Hmmm, maybe. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 17:44:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Cyric? Sun, star, that sort of thing?
I had the same thought. Two of Cyric's nicknames are the "Black Sun" and the "Dark Sun," and every sun is a star. And Cyric is the one who murdered Mystra and began the Spellplague. I also like George's name for it, the "Spellstorm," better. |
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TSO
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 20:38:41
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| Do the spellscars sound like Eberrons dragon marks to anyone? |
The shadows shadow. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 20:39:53
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 None of that was 'mine'. All of that post was from Ed.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 20:58:15
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quote:
Originally posted by TSO
Do the spellscars sound like Eberrons dragon marks to anyone?
So much so that I commented on it in the Countdown thread. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 01:22:33
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quote:
Originally posted by TSO
Do the spellscars sound like Eberrons dragon marks to anyone?
Yes. Not exactly the same, obviously, but strikingly similar.
George, thanks for the clarification. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 03:10:15
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I'm still in shock, so do not expect a coherent post. I'll try to gather my wits and wrap my poor brain around all these changes by tomorrow.
First of all, is it really that hard to proof-read your articles? I noticed several "typos" in this article, especially concerning several of the names. Now, is it 'plaguelands' or 'Plaguelands'? Swordcoast or Sword Coast? And I *think* Rich's first article mentioned 'Changing Lands', not 'Changing Land'? And, yet, I don't recall a land called 'Muhorand' in FR... This may seem like nitpicking, but if they continue along this line, there may be entries like 'City of Water Deep' or 'Kingdom of Comyr' or 'Empire of netheril' in FRCG.
Arcane secrets whisper to those with the ears to hear in the eons-long movement of the continents, in rushing river rapids, in every inhalation of beasts great and small, and in the sighing cries of the wind. Raw magic is the wild stuff of creation itself, the mute and mindless will of being, suffusing every bit of matter and coursing within every manifestation of energy throughout the world.
In my opinion this is some badly-written prose which should have been left out of the article. This paragraph is apparently meant to convey us how powerful and 'all-permeating' force magic in FR is, but it just made me (almost) weep. 
Dangerous monsters, too, call up frightful magic to accomplish their deceitful ends. Aberrations spawned by ancient magic seethe below the earth and above it, hungry for flesh and knowledge alike, waiting for the chance to feed. Dragons whose blood runs with magic wield abilities so potent that gods and primordials alike fear to face the most ancient of these mighty beings.
"Dragons whose blood runs with magic...". Again, this whole paragraph is written so badly that even I, a non-native speaker, could probably do a better job (well, probably not... considering the "quality" of the "fantasy fiction" I've written, but anyway). The only interesting tidbit is the reference to *primordials* -- assuming that they have something to do with 'Pacts' or some other mechanical aspect of 4E (if not, why "shoehorn" them into the setting?). Will they be retconned into FR, or perhaps they're connected to Abeir? In any case, it's pretty clear that those "New Deities" hinted at by Rich will at least be from Abeir's Pantheon...
Wizards, warlocks, clerics, sorcerers, bards, paladins, and even rogues, fighters, rangers, and other adventurers call upon personally derived threads of magic to cast mighty spells, enforce pacts with enigmatic entities, heal injury, ward against evil, or accomplish physical feats that transcend purely mortal means.
And this is just what I feared -- 'semi-mystical' (or even outright *magical*) class abilities in 4E (a la Monk in 3E) which are explained by characters "tapping" directly into the Weave of Raw Magic.  I wish to mention here that we tried playing monks when 3E came out, and they pretty much (in my group's opinion) felt "out of place" as PCs in FR (a female Llewyrr Monk, anyone?). We did use them occasionally as NPCs, though, but not often. One of the reasons for our dislike of that whole class were the 'mystical' abilities and self-healing -- *NOT* because we thought the class was either "inferior" or "superior" to the other classes.
There were also plenty of other things that felt contradictory and really badly thought out. I'll list (and briefly address) some of them here:
- Halruaa "nuked"... why? Because there were too many "uber-NPCs" or because there were too many Specialist Wizards that wouldn't work in 4E? And if all the written and memorizes spells "spontaneously went off" at the same time, why did this not happen anywhere else? *I* would have used Halruaa as the new "point of origin" for the 4E magical 'traditions' (because they're going to be shoehorned into the setting anyway).
- Shar preventing the ascension of the new Deity of Magic? I thought only AO had the power to do that, especially considering that Shar *must* have felt some kind of "backlash" and "power drain" from losing control over the Shadow Weave. Yet somehow I expect AO to have been the "first casualty" of the Spellplague, so I guess his opinion wouldn't matter.
- Shadow Weave is not affected by the Spellplague? Or by the fact that Shar lost control of it? I think there should have been some kind of impact felt by the SW users. But that would have meant that the City of Shade would have fallen, which would have been totally "uncool", right?
- The home of demons fell through the cosmology before the Abyss found its new home beneath the Elemental Chaos? I can understand that they were going to shoehorn the 'Core Cosmology' into FR to *some* extent, but honestly, this feels a bit cheesy. So, Spellplague is powerful enough to topple Gods from their high thrones and "reshuffle" the Cosmology, yet it cannot touch Epic/High Magic or Mythals? Wow... just because they needed to keep Myth Drannor and Empire of Shade intact? 
- Abeir replacing Maztica as a continent? Now, I never really personally cared about Maztica, but I thought that Tymanther's sudden appearance to replace Unther would have been enough. And will this new kingdom of Akanul be the FR equivalent of 'Bael Turath' (sp?) as an empire of the 4E Tieflings? Somehow I envision Abeir as FR's version of Xen'Drik or Argonnessen ... and it feels like 4E FR is turning into Eberron 2.0.  In any case, I think they intend to use Abeir as an "entry point" for all those 4E Core Features and mechanics that wouldn't fit into FR without retcons -- I wouldn't be surprised if someone discovered an Empire of Warforged on Abeir when PHB 2 comes out...
- The Sea of Fallen Stars has been partially drained into the Underchasm? Will we now have Underdark pirates -- with Darkvision and all?  Rich *did* mention pirates "still sailing the Sea of Fallen Stars", but you'd think that if a "continent-sized" part of the sea vanishes, it'd have a dramatical impact on them, too?
Summa summarum: all in all I felt that the 4E FR "Preview" articles (in my opinion) contain a lot of contradictory and illogical bits (not only with the previously published Realmslore but also with each other), sloppy writing, bad ideas and convey a "feel" of a setting that has very little to do with my idea of the Realms. It may work for all those who could not "identify" with FR before, or who are "newbies" to D&D and FR -- yet I'm just glad that my group has decided not to make the shift to 4E FR. It's just a shame that unless they will use another RSE similar to the Spellplague, most of these changes will carry over to 5E FR.  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 01 Feb 2008 03:11:16 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 05:46:00
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| Asgetrion, I respect that you are unhappy with many of the changes but making personal attacks against Bruce is uncalled for. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
Edited by - Brian R. James on 01 Feb 2008 05:47:12 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 11:35:52
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Sage & Brian,
you're both correct. I was way out of line with my comments, and I apologise for that. Alaundo was kind enough to edit those lines out of my post before I could. I will try my best to curb my temper in the future to avoid intentionally insulting or attacking anyone.  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 12:07:56
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I don't see much reason for calling Asgetron's posting a personal attack (but that's just my opinion of course). Mentioning the lack of proffesionalism like the numerous typos and "cheesy" style (granted, the latter is a bit subjective) should not be mistaken as an attack.
I have a very high opinion of Bruce - this guy has written 2e highlights like The Illthiad and the three illithid-related adventures (A Darkness Gathering, Masters of Eternal Night, Dawn of the Overmind), the great College of Wizardry and quite a number of good 3e products. Still, when I see something I don't like (subjective)or even find something objectively bad, I will express my opinion.
That openness and honesty should be more valued (not only in candlekeep but everywhere) than keeping something to yourself because of fearing to step on someone's ego. I think most of us are grown-up enough to behave like adults (ar at least like adults should behave.
...anyway, that's of course just my opinion and NOT meant as an attack on Bruce, Brian, The Sage or anyone else. ;o)
[edit] Asgetrion answered while I was typing away, so I didn't catch the comment about editing out anything. I guess most of what I wrote still holds true. |
Edited by - tauster on 01 Feb 2008 12:10:45 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 12:29:00
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Suffice it to say there was more than that originally said.
Having said that, I think the topic of what was said is dealt with, and we should move on. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Malkor the Mad
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 17:45:03
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One thing I have noticed that no one has hinted at, (that I have read at least) is how WotC has made 4E more video game friendly.
Looking at sales for books and video games in this day and age, video games are much farther ahead.
What they have done from what I have seen is make it a lot easier for Atari/Obsidian/Whoever to make games more in line with the actual rules. A lot of the reason there are not a lot of games that come from D&D rules is because it's not video game friendly. Companies have to spend a lot of time and money converting the book rules to something that can be used in the video game, and most don't want to waste the resources to do that.
Now they don't have to. I would imagine, especially with a parent company like Hasbro, they are looking for more avenues to sell their products. And with kids these days, unfortunantly not knowing what a book is, video games and movies are the two money makers.
Just my predictions, but I would imagine that we will be seeing a lot more games coming out connected to either D&D or even based in FR. |
Mystic Theurge of Velsharoon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 17:58:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Malkor the Mad
What they have done from what I have seen is make it a lot easier for Atari/Obsidian/Whoever to make games more in line with the actual rules. A lot of the reason there are not a lot of games that come from D&D rules is because it's not video game friendly. Companies have to spend a lot of time and money converting the book rules to something that can be used in the video game, and most don't want to waste the resources to do that.
Now they don't have to.
It's too early to say definitively whether or not 4E rules will be better for video games, but I will say (as a lover of FR/D&D video games) that if that's the case, it's not a bad thing in and of itself. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 17:59:30
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Well, we did have some cheesy game called Baldur's Gate...never did really well, so I guess they'll focus more on combat and less on stories to be told.
I'm getting sarcastic again...need more vitamins |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 19:13:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Malkor the Mad
One thing I have noticed that no one has hinted at, (that I have read at least) is how WotC has made 4E more video game friendly.
quote:
Originally posted by Malkor the Mad
One thing I have noticed that no one has hinted at, (that I have
hmmm an RPG for the WoW generation, lots of cool races to pick from, quick level advancement, loads of ruins and wasteland to explore, lots of monsters, less magic and magic users about, a rise in the orcs (perhaps becoming a major race?), plug and play game where you get to 30th level in a year
(quote something along the lines of: "we have fixed the xp table it will take you about the same time to get to 30th as it currently does to get to get to 20th" and from the pre-3E release their market research said that campaigns generally last about a year of playing once a week for about 4-5 hours per session with 4 players, and that is why 3E XP/CR was designed as it was)
Am awaiting the flaming I got last time I mentioned this.....
I am not saying that designing and releasing 4E as a business plan to attract the 12-20 year old WoW gamer into RPG'ing is a bad thing, the more people that play this hobby the better. However why did they have to blow up the Realms to do this? I do not buy into this twaddle being bandied about regarding other current gamers who wont play in the Realms because of the Chosen, lots of magic, Hapers and Archwizards everywhere etc etc, but they would play in the new Realms once all these 'issues' have gone. I don't believe this for a second and if this is really being used as the rationale for what they are doing to the Realms I am dismayed, because they have listened to the haters and not those who love the Realms
Just my thoughts
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 19:49:00
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The WoW crowd will not be drawn to D&D. A few maybe, but not many.
Why? Because you cannot just play, you have to learn the rules, which in turn requires a lot of reading for at least one person (the GM) and at least some reading by the players. I have trouble getting people to learn more about the Realms as it is, because they are busy with their jobs and all, but they do have a grasp of the rules.
Furthermore, the "fun" of WoW is, in parts, geared towards the replayability of things...instances for example, and I doubt that anyone who would come to the fold would play the same adventure over and over again until everyone has the cool items they need.
They'd have more chance winning over people from the Miniature game and Magic cuz these people already play something that requires reading of rules and so on.
My bet is on the making more money part. If FR 3e was doing so bad that it needed a reboot, they would have done so in 3e already, or stopped the entire line game-wise. Instead they continued to publish hardcovers. If it was not profitable at all, why continue the line? Or produce softcovers to cushion the drop in sales? If a FR product sold, say, 40k units in the first 3 months at a price of $ 30 (for simplicity's sake) that would've resulted in 1.2 million $. A very respectable number, at least in my book. Probably also in Peter Adkinson's book. But Peter sold WotC to Hasbro, and I would've done the same.
The thing is this: Hasbro looks at stuff differently, and although they claim they do not interfere with Wizards policies etc. I doubt that holds true, it would be very un-cooperation-like to procede like this.
Wozards has to meet certain monetary goals to keep the Big Brother happy.
So if Complete Arcane sold 75k copies at 30$ the result would be almost double the FR's revenue.
The problem I see coming up with this new FR is that they do think us stupid customers will spread our behinds wide, hand them the lubricant and take the stuff they want us to buy like the idiots they think we are. If we don't their gamble failed, Hasbro will yell at the money-counters at Wizards and they in turn will fire designers and maybe cancel the entire FR game-line. This way the 4e FR abomination would stop, but seeing as they still make profit with the novel line, the rights probably will not return to Ed either. If we buy the stuff to show support and hope for the best, we'll prove them right and everything they think about us is proved by the numbers, that we lot will buy everything with a Forgotten Realms logo.
Still, I will not buy the new Realms, even if it risks the game-line to be discontinued, because, frankly said, I am sick and fu****ing tired of having some so-called experts tell me what I will like.
Then again, at 36, I ain't in their target group anyway.
Cheers
P.S. I should have turned this into a RANT, but since I don't have gotten my poll, yet, it is far nicer than the RANTs |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
Edited by - Mace Hammerhand on 01 Feb 2008 21:16:08 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 21:53:50
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| If the WoW crowd was going to be drawn to D&D more would have bought the D20 WoW game, they didn't. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 22:10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
If the WoW crowd was going to be drawn to D&D more would have bought the D20 WoW game, they didn't.
Tell that to Wizards marketing experts... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 23:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
The problem I see coming up with this new FR is that they do think us stupid customers will spread our behinds wide, hand them the lubricant and take the stuff they want us to buy like the idiots they think we are.
Nice imagery. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 00:54:36
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Spellplague term isn't mine (I called it "the
Doom," or "the Coming of the Black Star" or "THE
Spellstorm"), and I always intended this to be a
mythical always-in-the-future bogey-tale.
I'm glad you posted this George. In a weird way, it makes me feel more, I don't know, justified (?) in how I presented the alternate future in this thread:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9917
One of the things I wanted to do, even though I didn't want to use 4th edition Realms, was to leave that feeling that things could collapse, this "bad thing" could still happen, and its been delayed or pushed back, but not fully eliminated from possibility.
Its kind of cool to see that this is sort of the idea behind Ed's original concept of the "Coming of the Black Star," kinda sorta. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 05:00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
If the WoW crowd was going to be drawn to D&D more would have bought the D20 WoW game, they didn't.
Tell that to Wizards marketing experts...
I think they're well aware of that. In fact, they've probably analyzed it a lot. The biggest problem with D20 WoW was probably that it tried to force the setting to work with the D20 rules, which was apparently a doomed attempt -- at least from a financial point of view. So, what WoTC is now trying to do is to *recreate* the D20/D&D rule set to *function* in the terms of the *setting*. It is pretty evident that they've done a lot of research, as the whole 4E design team seems to have played WoW for some time -- some of them are even running their own guilds. They've admitted that they're playing to "steal" ideas and inspiration so that 4E would be more accessible and appealing to the MMORPG/video game generation. I'm sure that they've even interviewed a lot of people in the game about what they like in WoW and whether those same aspects in a P&P would make them try 4E. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Malkor the Mad
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 05:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
The WoW crowd will not be drawn to D&D. A few maybe, but not many.
Why? Because you cannot just play, you have to learn the rules, which in turn requires a lot of reading for at least one person (the GM) and at least some reading by the players. I have trouble getting people to learn more about the Realms as it is, because they are busy with their jobs and all, but they do have a grasp of the rules.
Furthermore, the "fun" of WoW is, in parts, geared towards the replayability of things...instances for example, and I doubt that anyone who would come to the fold would play the same adventure over and over again until everyone has the cool items they need.
snippity snip
I don't think they are really making it for readability. I'm sure P&P players are a market but nowhere near video gaming market. Basicly it looks like 4E is geared towards ease of compatability.
Like I said before, with the intergration of talent trees/at will powers and such WotC has made it alot easier for SP games and MMO games to be made using D&D rules.
Here's an easy comparison. The D&D MMO. This was supposed to be D&D's step up into "real" video gaming status.
But of course what is the biggest complaint heard when it comes out?
"Its not like playing P&P."
The response?
"It's nearly impossible to get a video game/online game to run like P&P rules. They just don't work together."
Now...they do. Why try and recode video games to follow P&P rules when you can just change the rules and have P&P follow the video games. |
Mystic Theurge of Velsharoon |
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4e FR
