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Halaster Blackcloak
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 10:47:26
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I loathed the changes made for 3E (D&D-wise as well as for the FR themselves), so I'm clearly in the camp that has no interest in even thinking about 4E FR. I fell in love with the original 1E FR gray box set, and followed it far into 2E. The 1E material was the best, and the parchment paper printing made it feel special, which only enhanced the awesome writing. In 2E, shortly after Undermountain was released (and I still consider that the #1 best gaming product ever created), there seemed to be a severe power escalation and tie-in with the novels, and that I did not like. I started to steer away from what was being published and focused more on what was happening in "my" Forgotten Realms campaigns.
The changes I'm hearing about in 4E are light years beyond absurd even compared to 3E. Setting the Realms 100 years into the future renders that material virtually useless unless the DM wants to jump ahead a century or so. Even if I were following the FR in 3E (which I clearly am not), I would not even think of picking up 4E FR. Too much drastic change. I suspect that this is going to hurt sales, not that I care, since I "divorced" WoTC long ago.
But it's getting ridiculous having to buy a new setting and all new books every few years. 1E lasted 12 years, 2E lasted 11 years. 3E lasted just what...2-3 years before 3.5E came out, and another 3 years for 4E? We jumped from 2E to 3E to 3.5E to 4E in a total of 8 years. See the accelerated waste there? One jump in 23 years compared to 3 jumps in 8 years.
So now WOTC expects everyone to go out and buy the 4E FRCS, and the 4E versions of all the auxillary material that detail everything not included in the campaign setting. All with hefty price tags I might add. When 2016 comes around, will there be a 5E FRCS released?
I haven't even finished running half of the 1E material for the FR, and have not even exhausted the first 3 levels of Undermountain, and it's been 21 years since I got the 1E FR material and 17 years since I got Undermountain. Clearly, I'm not worried about running out of FR material. Thankfully!
I have to admit, I feel a little lost here at Candlekeep because I never have and never will care for or have interest in what happened in the FR in 3E and even less so in 4E, so I feel a little out of step with most people.
But I do love the Realms. The original Realms and designed by and written by Ed Greenwood (and a select few other authors). Anyway, I think it's a mistake to take the FR in the direction WOTC is taking it. It will be interesting to see whether it crashes and burns or not though. |
Halaster Blackcloak
Creator of Undermountain
Faithful Old-School Grognard
Visit the new Back In Print Project Website:
http://www.undermountain.org/bip.html |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 04:51:03
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I have loved D&D since the old white box. Thus part of me is interested to see what is done with the new rulesets. I am mostly intrigued and anxious about the promise for facilitation of PnP online, since most of my old gaming group lives in various parts of the world now. I know that there have been various indie-ware programs that did this for 3E, but none of them ever seemed user friendly or stable enough for me to want to shell out the money for them (and convince my friends to do the same).
So I will likely buy the first module (H1) that comes out next month and the core rulebooks just for a read. If I don’t like what I find then they will go into the collection. It certainly would not be the first time I have bought gaming books and been disappointed.
With regards to the Realms material however, I am very disappointed at what I have been hearing. Furthermore I am worried about what impact this may have on future novels for the realms. One would think that WOTC would still want them to serve as cross-platform products to support their new 4E concept of the realms…but how will this play out? While it might be chronologically feasible to still have novels about that most popular of dark elf rangers (personally I wouldn’t mind some more Jarlaxle novels). What about our favorite human characters who are now bones and dust?
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 06:32:46
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I just wanted to let everyone here know that I created a thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=930525) in the Forgotten Realms General forums over in the D&D forums for us fans to tell the designers what has caused us to love the Realms. I have also asked the designers to read the thread and hopefully they will garner what and take into consideration what we love and try their best not to change it too much. I too am hoping to be pleasantly surprised next August.
Thanks,
Hawkins
I resurrected that thread; anybody remotely curious about my contribution (its, um, "critical" regarding Fourth Edition) had better read it now-I've heard horror stories from other people on this forum about posts being deleted by the moderators of that site for little or no reason. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 14:59:15
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| To be fair, I post at WotC and I haven't seen any examples of arbitrary thread deletions or "horrible modding" lately. I know those boards aren't liked by some and can be an easy target, but let's not go overboard. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Apr 2008 15:04:32 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 15:19:55
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The only post I had deleted (that was on-topic and not posted merely 'for fun') over there was one concerning the Hasbro guy who is currently in charge of 'overseeing' WotC.
From what I understand, it is the same guy who was fired from Coca-Cola for creating that 'new Coke' fiasco. 
Anyhow, I'm not even sure if that's true, because "I read it on the Internet", but I did make a reference to him being the same person, and my post was IMMEDIATELY deleted.
To be fair - I've had stuff from this site deleted as well. I guess I just have 'bad taste' or something.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Apr 2008 15:21:01 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 15:38:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
To be fair, I post at WotC and I haven't seen any examples of arbitrary thread deletions or "horrible modding" lately. I know those boards aren't liked by some and can be an easy target, but let's not go overboard.
I had some arbitrary deletions over there before my wrongful banning... In fact, I still don't know exactly what my third offense was, because the entire thread was deleted. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 15:40:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
To be fair, I post at WotC and I haven't seen any examples of arbitrary thread deletions or "horrible modding" lately. I know those boards aren't liked by some and can be an easy target, but let's not go overboard.
I had some arbitrary deletions over there before my wrongful banning... In fact, I still don't know exactly what my third offense was, because the entire thread was deleted.
You? Banned? Wow... |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 15:41:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I had some arbitrary deletions over there before my wrongful banning... In fact, I still don't know exactly what my third offense was, because the entire thread was deleted.
Yeah, I'm aware of what happened to you, Wooly.
But as of late, I haven't seen anything "fishy" like that. Of course, there are a lot of things I don't see, but all I can do is say what my experience at the WotC boards is.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ithil
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 15:47:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I had some arbitrary deletions over there before my wrongful banning... In fact, I still don't know exactly what my third offense was, because the entire thread was deleted.
All I could think was, "FREE WOOLY!"  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:08:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I had some arbitrary deletions over there before my wrongful banning... In fact, I still don't know exactly what my third offense was, because the entire thread was deleted.
Yeah, I'm aware of what happened to you, Wooly.
But as of late, I haven't seen anything "fishy" like that. Of course, there are a lot of things I don't see, but all I can do is say what my experience at the WotC boards is.
Well, even if things have changed, I refuse to go back while my banning remains in place. Though, to be honest, if the banning was reversed today, I don't know I'd spend all that much time over there. I spend enough time over here! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ithil
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I had some arbitrary deletions over there before my wrongful banning... In fact, I still don't know exactly what my third offense was, because the entire thread was deleted.
All I could think was, "FREE WOOLY!"
Heh, by banning me, they freed me to come over here -- a forum that I think has a much better environment.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yeah, I'm aware of what happened to you, Wooly.
But as of late, I haven't seen anything "fishy" like that. Of course, there are a lot of things I don't see, but all I can do is say what my experience at the WotC boards is.
No?
Karsus the Mad?
Banned because of what was said in a PM?!
I no longer trust 'PMing' there, knowing that the mods are reading through them - I find that disgusting. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Apr 2008 16:12:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:33:23
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| Wow... As much as I'd like to follow up on that last comment, we really have strayed from the original discussion. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:34:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, even if things have changed, I refuse to go back while my banning remains in place. Though, to be honest, if the banning was reversed today, I don't know I'd spend all that much time over there. I spend enough time over here!
I understand--go where you're comfortable. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Heh, by banning me, they freed me to come over here...
I'm sorry... was this supposed to be a good thing?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Apr 2008 16:37:50 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:38:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yeah, I'm aware of what happened to you, Wooly.
But as of late, I haven't seen anything "fishy" like that. Of course, there are a lot of things I don't see, but all I can do is say what my experience at the WotC boards is.
No?
Karsus the Mad?
Banned because of what was said in a PM?!
I no longer trust 'PMing' there, knowing that the mods are reading through them - I find that disgusting.
I liked Karsus the Mad and was sorry to hear about him being banned, but we need to remember there are two sides to every story. He was acting a bit strange on the boards right before he got banned. I have things I could say about the PM issue (for example, did the mods evesdrop on a private PM, or was it shown to them?), but even besides that how do we know KTM got banned because of an isolated incident?
Therefore, even though I liked the guy and didn't WANT him to be banned, I can't rightly say that his banning was unfair or done "for no good reason".
And yeah, this is kind of off-topic, but I wanted to explain myself there. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Apr 2008 16:40:14 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 18:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I have things I could say about the PM issue (for example, did the mods evesdrop on a private PM, or was it shown to them?), but even besides that how do we know KTM got banned because of an isolated incident?
You do realize WHO you are pointing a finger at here, don't you?
You being his 'Konsort' and all... 
I don't want to 'linger' on this, but I very much doubt that the recipient of the PM reported the other person, since they were very good friends, and remain so, off the boards.
The message contained within the PM was volatile, but it was thought to be a private venting, and KtM had NO IDEA mods read through them.
However, to be perfectly fair about this, I'm sure some of the 'language' he used set-off a few 'flags'.
Now, to keep me from getting in troubl (and banned ), I'll try to stear this back a wee bit.
Just because Ed wishes it, I WILL 'check out' the 4e FRCG. I was originally planning on buying it regardless, out of morbid curiousity, but then changed my mind (I don't feel like giving away money). Now, I will read through parts of it at Borders, and make my decision then, but the ONLY reason why I am doing so is because of Ed's contribution and 'plea' to give it a try. If I feel enough of Ed's new regional info is worth it, then I will purchase it. However, if most of his contribution is cut (which I suspect will happen - saving it for the DDi), then I will NOT purchase the book, nor the other one (there will only be two FR sourcebooks ever again).
I have very little interest in Draconians and Aboleths, so Ed's part of the book had better be GOLDEN.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2008 : 19:55:16
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I can weave tales about banning and the battles that preceded them on the WotC forums that'd make your ears bleed. 
That said....of course I’m going to check out 4E.
Ed said quite directly at last year’s GenCon that the realms must change. Though I wasn’t pleased with all that was said by others after Ed was done with his part of the FR Seminar, his words still left a strong impression.
I look forward to reading about the changes firsthand.
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 26 May 2008 23:38:47 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2008 : 03:06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Ed said quite directly at last year’s GenCon that the realms must change.
So what? Number one, the Realms have always experienced change. Number two, what Ed said was not a mandate that everyone must like any changes that come down the pipeline. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2008 : 05:08:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Ed said quite directly at last year’s GenCon that the realms must change.
So what? Number one, the Realms have always experienced change. Number two, what Ed said was not a mandate that everyone must like any changes that come down the pipeline.
And change can include things other than nuking. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2008 : 15:52:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You do realize WHO you are pointing a finger at here, don't you?
I'm aware that this is an old post, and I missed it before (probably thanks to the technical troubles), but I would like to say that I do not appreciate the tone you are using in this post. Please refrain from using it at me in the future.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 27 May 2008 15:53:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 03:22:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
So what? Number one, the Realms have always experienced change.
Ergo, that change continues.
Simple.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Number two, what Ed said was not a mandate that everyone must like any changes that come down the pipeline.
Nor did he express it as such. Neither did I claim that he said it or that such is a conclusion to follow.
It’d be nice if you could try a little harder in practicing self-restraint.
The act of me sharing my reasoning for how I feel and what I’m going to do in no way puts that under your purview for review. It’s just as rude here as it is in real life for you to respond the way you did.
Please refrain from using that tone with me in the future and try to stay on topic. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 14:55:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Nor did he express it as such. Neither did I claim that he said it or that such is a conclusion to follow.
It’d be nice if you could try a little harder in practicing self-restraint.
The act of me sharing my reasoning for how I feel and what I’m going to do in no way puts that under your purview for review. It’s just as rude here as it is in real life for you to respond the way you did.
Please refrain from using that tone with me in the future and try to stay on topic.
Excuse me? That's total nonsense, I wasn't rude to you at all, or off-topic. Unless you consider the simple act of disagreeing with you to be "rude".
If you make any comment here, people have the right to respond to it, whether you like it or not. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 28 May 2008 15:02:39 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 15:01:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Ergo, that change continues.
Simple.
No, it's not "that simple", and I think you know that, but I don't feel like debating the matter with you. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Wise words from Ed, regarding 4e FR
Topic Locked
