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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Sep 2007 : 16:25:47
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| Anyone out there able to explain me the enchantment spell Q'arlynd and his band actually used and who was affected and who was not? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 05:00:17
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| Ask Lisa Smedman? |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 10:43:01
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| Once I get the facts and figures assembled, I'll do. At this moment and time I look for someone else's thoughts. I already stated some (ingame) problems over at your revision post. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 20:58:03
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I loved the finish of this book. It was stuffed full action and a nice little understanding betweem Cavatina and Karas...Finally.
The only thing that worried me just a tiny bit was how formidable Cavatina is becoming. A demi-god then a Balor, in the Abyss!! I suppose Lloth is next on her to do list!! ;)
Also even though High-Magic is not an easy thing to accomplish, it seemed an awfully easy way to kill a god. It makes me wonder why the Mages of Evermeet have not taken out a few deity over the years.
But like I said those are just little things that did not detract from my enjoyment of the novel. Lisa did an excellent job of juggling so many interesting characters. Why if she mixed in a few jokes and more debauchery (even with all the nudity by the followers of the masked lady, it was artfully done and clearly within the characters)
she would juggle much like Ed of the Green Wood!
Look forward to seeing how Lisa finishes up this series and hope we see more of some of the characters afterwards! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 13:38:00
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| Still no-one about able to tell me how the spell can actually work? Or rather, how it could be able to "kill" a goddess simply by erasing her name - on Toril? All concerned, as Cavatina et al did say, could still remember the deity of vengance and undead; and many followers will not have prayed to her only as Kiaransalee either, but also The Revenancer. Her non-divine followers, such as the necromancers described in DD will still be devoted to the deity of undeath, the Nameless One, so to speak. Thus ... how does this work? Not to mention that the undead followers of Kia are - by canon lore - unaffected by mindaffecting magic and enchantments, no matter who or what cats them. All a bit of a conundrum. Essentially, regarding the latter bit about undead and assuming that it worked, the author just set new rules in motion - which is the difficult bit with novels in general. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 09 Sep 2007 09:31:33 |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 17:19:39
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| I'd assume it's more like an alter reality spell. |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 16:33:41
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quote:
Originally posted by ywhtptgtfo
I'd assume it's more like an alter reality spell.
Or some wish. As mentioned in the book, it has been done before. It certainly won't kill ... (I've forgotten her name  ), but it took her out of the sava game quite neatly.
The last few chapters were really exciting and the dialogue between Cavatina and the Wedonai(?) was very intriguing and Halisstra's actions are still pure chaos, I'm still trying to figure out what's going on in her mind...
If Lisa keeps up the pace, at least one other drow deity is going to die in "Ascendancy of the Last". |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 04:23:47
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I can understand that the spell would be able to erase her name from reality, since it seemed, "high concept" as it may be, to affect her actual name, but I don't 100% agree on what effect the ritual would have on Kiaraunsalee.
While I can see that not knowing her actually name might cause problems for the divine casters, since many rituals probably involve invoking her name, and it would probably cause a ton of confusion, not knowing her name wouldn't keep her worshipers from, well, worshiping her. As has been pointed out, several characters, even forgetting her name, knew that she was a goddess of death and vengence. That should still be enough to "maintain" her with worship. Not to mention there is a question of exactly how quickly "worship" energy disperses. Even if Kiaraunsalee didn't have any worshipers, would she really die within a few minutes of her worshipers forgetting about her?
I liked the book and enjoyed reading it. I liked Cavitina more that I did in the first book, though I think her conversion was a little too quick, and I like Qarlynd (but more on that later). And I guess I'm one of the few that thought that the faezress origin was actually kind of an interesting take on what it was, and how it affected the drow. It seemed to make sense to me, and it seemed to fit with some of the material from Elaine's Starlight and Shadows books.
I will say that the drow didn't quite feel as paranoid as I think they should have been. Drow are very worried about status, so if Qarlyn's "apprentices" knew that he was working against them or playing them, I can imagine that to "save face" Qarlynd would have had any number of "accidents" to even the score. I chalk it up at least a little to Sshamath being a little less vindictive than other drow cities.
Overall, it was enjoyable, and there were some fun parts, but there were also some plot holes that felt like they were there expressly to advance an agenda (I know that the author doesn't usually determine the major changes that take place in series like these). Anyway, it was fun, but I do wish that that things didn't feel quite so predetermined and kind of rushed. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 20:24:29
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I can understand that the spell would be able to erase her name from reality, since it seemed, "high concept" as it may be, to affect her actual name, but I don't 100% agree on what effect the ritual would have on Kiaraunsalee.
While I can see that not knowing her actually name might cause problems for the divine casters, since many rituals probably involve invoking her name, and it would probably cause a ton of confusion, not knowing her name wouldn't keep her worshipers from, well, worshiping her. As has been pointed out, several characters, even forgetting her name, knew that she was a goddess of death and vengence. That should still be enough to "maintain" her with worship. Not to mention there is a question of exactly how quickly "worship" energy disperses. Even if Kiaraunsalee didn't have any worshipers, would she really die within a few minutes of her worshipers forgetting about her?
I suppose we are to believe that it wiped her name from Ao's mind or whoever "created" her...thus ending her existence??? That's the only way I see it killing her so fast. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 21:56:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I can understand that the spell would be able to erase her name from reality, since it seemed, "high concept" as it may be, to affect her actual name, but I don't 100% agree on what effect the ritual would have on Kiaraunsalee.
While I can see that not knowing her actually name might cause problems for the divine casters, since many rituals probably involve invoking her name, and it would probably cause a ton of confusion, not knowing her name wouldn't keep her worshipers from, well, worshiping her. As has been pointed out, several characters, even forgetting her name, knew that she was a goddess of death and vengence. That should still be enough to "maintain" her with worship. Not to mention there is a question of exactly how quickly "worship" energy disperses. Even if Kiaraunsalee didn't have any worshipers, would she really die within a few minutes of her worshipers forgetting about her?
I suppose we are to believe that it wiped her name from Ao's mind or whoever "created" her...thus ending her existence??? That's the only way I see it killing her so fast.
... and via an ad hoc Elven High Magic ritual carried out by drow with some considerable help of some ancient spirits? Via the faerzress ... which essentially did not affect those drow currently not within the Underdark. Nor would it suddenly feeblemind (as described) the clergy and even less so the lay worshippers. What about the Hexblades mentioned by Eytan lately? The Banshee Knights crusaders who actually had their chapter house on that island? What of Larynda Telenna or that Kiaranshee Divine Champion mentioned in CotSQ? Overthrown by a desposed upstart from Maerimydra? ... As in, as much attention as the Eilistraeens, Selvetarmites and Vhaeraunians got in LP I and LP II, the Kiaransaleens really drew a very very short straw. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 21:57:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I can understand that the spell would be able to erase her name from reality, since it seemed, "high concept" as it may be, to affect her actual name, but I don't 100% agree on what effect the ritual would have on Kiaraunsalee.
While I can see that not knowing her actually name might cause problems for the divine casters, since many rituals probably involve invoking her name, and it would probably cause a ton of confusion, not knowing her name wouldn't keep her worshipers from, well, worshiping her. As has been pointed out, several characters, even forgetting her name, knew that she was a goddess of death and vengence. That should still be enough to "maintain" her with worship. Not to mention there is a question of exactly how quickly "worship" energy disperses. Even if Kiaraunsalee didn't have any worshipers, would she really die within a few minutes of her worshipers forgetting about her?
I suppose we are to believe that it wiped her name from Ao's mind or whoever "created" her...thus ending her existence??? That's the only way I see it killing her so fast.
... and via an ad hoc Elven High Magic ritual carried out by drow with some considerable help of some ancient spirits? Via the faerzress ... which essentially did not affect those drow currently not within the Underdark. Nor would it suddenly feeblemind (as described) the clergy and even less so the lay worshippers. What about the Hexblades mentioned by Eytan lately? The Banshee Knights crusaders who actually had their chapter house on that island? What of Larynda Telenna or that Kiaranshee Divine Champion mentioned in CotSQ? Overthrown by an exiled upstart from Maerimydra? ... As in: as much attention as the Eilistraeens, Selvetarmites and Vhaeraunians got in LP I and LP II, the Kiaransaleens really drew a very very short straw.
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Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 29 Sep 2007 21:58:25 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 04:23:43
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Do I need to explain here that I think the whole High Magic ritual was silly? No? OK, I'll move on.
I didn't care for what was done with faerzress, myself. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, but for my part:
1) I'm a stick-in-the-mud who likes the old explanation.
2) It's seems like everything nowadays gets tied back to elves and high magic. I like elves, and I like high magic...but not as the root cause of everyone's problems. It's getting annoying.
I also didn't care for the term "patron deity" being used in this book. Not only do I not like the concept of "patron deities" in the Realms--a polytheistic setting--but it feels so meta-gamey to me.
But in spite of all the problems I have with the book, I actually enjoyed reading it. I've said before that Lisa Smedman can be relied upon to spin a tale, and that holds true here. There are many interesting characters at play, here, and the dialogue and character action feels, for the most part, both real and readable. This is a fine novel, but I feel like I can't truly love it, as it is marred with changes that I dislike that were ordered by WotC. Oh well. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 18:59:06
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I just thought of something.
Was I the only reader puzzled by the way Q'arlynd opened the door? It makes zero sense to me. Basically, he (and that apprentice, forgot his name) looked into the FUTURE to see himself opening the door, then learned how to open it from that vision. But...how the heck does that work? Why would he be opening the door in the future if he had no clue how to do so in the present? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 22:47:13
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... the apprentice knew that he'd need about 576 tries, but one would eventually do it. Hence, he chose the time of that try and skipped the 575 inbetween. Diviners, you know. Strange lot.
Does that make sense? No? Well ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2007 : 03:02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
... the apprentice knew that he'd need about 576 tries, but one would eventually do it. Hence, he chose the time of that try and skipped the 575 inbetween. Diviners, you know. Strange lot.
Does that make sense? No? Well ...
Heh! It makes more sense than...I guess any other explanation. But still, not that much. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2007 : 22:04:56
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Matter of fact ... as ingenious as it first seems, it may pose a few problems for the game as such. The P&P game that is. For virtually any half-decent mage (you see, the acolyte who first used this tactic was not of a high level) can thus skip difficult tasks by "simply" looking into the future, as this novel proved is possible. That's the problem with novels and RAW, especially when novels are taken as canon (which is the case in the Realms). Hence one does hope that authors of the novels do get in touch with designers and folks who are steeped in the rules - unless they have a fair understanding of the problems which may happen when virtually writing canon.
That's a general remark, not aimed at Mrs. Smedman or any other author on here. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 21 Oct 2007 22:07:25 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 10:05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I just assumed that the divinition was probably aided by Elistraea.
Well, I would call that cheating, you know. Not least when it comes of the involvement ... or rather remarkable absence of the latter ... of Kiaransalee. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 14:38:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I just assumed that the divinition was probably aided by Elistraea.
Well, I would call that cheating, you know.
I agree--besides, it'd also be a case of the reader having to make the story coherent rather than the author. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Storm of the Dead: Chapters 12 -14 & Coda
