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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 20:08:17
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| The idea we're talking about doesn't answer to such veridical niceties. |
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dragonfriend
Seeker
Italy
65 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 21:24:58
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| No FR logo on the cover. That is sad |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 23:26:57
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The more I think about this, the more I think this is actually related to other issues in 4th edition. I think this is something that dovetails with with another 4th edition design element, and it just so happens that they have found some people to confirm their assumption.
If you look, we already know that several formerly good monsters are now going to be "unaligned," thus meaning almost every monster is a potential opponent. Dryads, metallic dragons, angels, all of them are potential enemies. No good guys anywhere but the PCs.
So I think the "nuke the established NPCs" fits in with this. The PCs are suppose to be THE only force for good in the world, the only ones that can fight evil anywhere. NPCs are there to have "social encounters" with, and monsters are there to kill. Have NPCs that are potentially able to challenge monsters only confuses these clear roles.
Elminster gets in because he is Ed's touchstone character, the character that first described the setting to us, and probably the most popular of the Chosen, and as such, the "token" surviving one. Drizzt . . . well . . . there are people that have never read any books set in the Realms except for RAS' books, and I think WOTC is trying to remind these guys that there is a campaign setting that Drizzt runs around in. |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 13 Dec 2007 00:10:00 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 00:41:47
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
If you look, we already know that several formerly good monsters are now going to be "unaligned," thus meaning almost every monster is a potential opponent. Dryads, metallic dragons, angels, all of them are potential enemies. No good guys anywhere but the PCs.
Even ANGELS are necessarily good anymore?
By the way, I've been on Rich's thread, and he recently admitted that putting Drizzt on the cover was done to take advantage of the character's popularity (like we didn't already know). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 13 Dec 2007 00:42:26 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 00:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Even ANGELS are necessarily good anymore?
To be fair, I should probably point out that angles could very easily still be good, since they "caved" and kept unicorns as good monsters.
This was based on some of the comments on the development of the Monster Manual V, where they mentioned that they created things like the Arcadian Avenger and the Justicator so the PCs would have "angels" that they had a reason to fight. They also mentioned in the last minis set that the new angel "look" is more inhuman and more of a force of nature. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 01:19:21
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
To be fair, I should probably point out that angles could very easily still be good, since they "caved" and kept unicorns as good monsters.
This was based on some of the comments on the development of the Monster Manual V, where they mentioned that they created things like the Arcadian Avenger and the Justicator so the PCs would have "angels" that they had a reason to fight. They also mentioned in the last minis set that the new angel "look" is more inhuman and more of a force of nature.
Just like how the true form of the dryad is less anthropomorphic.
Angels might not be automatically good just so the PCs have a reason to fight them? That's so unimaginative! It's not like there's a shortage of other creatures to fight, and there's no reason why the PCs couldn't have some other reason to be at odds with angels (maybe the PCs aren't that nice). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 13 Dec 2007 01:20:45 |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 02:17:09
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quote:
Angels might not be automatically good just so the PCs have a reason to fight them? That's so unimaginative! It's not like there's a shortage of other creatures to fight, and there's no reason why the PCs couldn't have some other reason to be at odds with angels (maybe the PCs aren't that nice).
And that are two excellent points right there...
Firstly, casting everything into a "possible opponent" spot right from the outset is plainly cheap and makes me imagine bad glimpses of a future that has become, in fact,"...kill...loot...tally the points.". And I, too, would rather hope for a healthy dose of creativity, instead of this...blergh.
Secondly, there is, as stated, no shortage of scenarios that could pit PCīs of any alignment against creatures of any alignment...ītis called storyweaving and I believe any semi-capable DM can do that.
And, yeah...no FR logo makes me sad. Donīt know why, because itīs not the cover tatīs really important, yet it does. |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
Edited by - Dart Ambermoon on 13 Dec 2007 02:20:46 |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 10:53:43
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I'm just wondering when Drizzt became the Realms Poster Boy. I always thought that was supposed to be El. I'm a bit happier that there's going to be more involvement in the other corners of the Realms. I just don't understand how they can release FR materials without Playtesting them first? My friend has his own small online publishing company. Before he releases anything he playtests it with two different groups. I'm very confused, and also very concerned. I don't really see the logic with all of this.
Of course... the cover of the last FRCS book set the tone for the covers of all the rest... is the Forgotten Realms just going to be come "Drizzt does Waterdeep (or whatever location they are talking about in this book)"? |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Caedwyr
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 15:08:02
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Just remember, Dungeons and Dragons is that game that all those sociopaths who kill their families play. You worship demons and kill angels in it. Have fun gaming!
I wonder how long its going to take before someone takes up that old wheeze again in seriousness. |
Edited by - Caedwyr on 13 Dec 2007 15:08:42 |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 16:03:08
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
I'm just wondering when Drizzt became the Realms Poster Boy. I always thought that was supposed to be El. I'm a bit happier that there's going to be more involvement in the other corners of the Realms. I just don't understand how they can release FR materials without Playtesting them first? My friend has his own small online publishing company. Before he releases anything he playtests it with two different groups. I'm very confused, and also very concerned. I don't really see the logic with all of this.
Of course... the cover of the last FRCS book set the tone for the covers of all the rest... is the Forgotten Realms just going to be come "Drizzt does Waterdeep (or whatever location they are talking about in this book)"?
Here in Brazil Drizzt always was the Realms Poster Boy (what a weird term). This is due the fact that here, the rpg gamers are generally 13 - 17 years old, and with this, anything that catch the juvenile attention is worth.
Another problem here is the fact that there are too many detractors of the Chosen here, and so few defenders
Sometimes, I feel like a lone ranger, taking care of half a dozen foruns and communities, explaining Realms-related stuff, and asking for the "Bane of the Chosen" posters to explain exactly why they donīt like them, to donīt create a false concept to new readers. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 18:05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
Of course... the cover of the last FRCS book set the tone for the covers of all the rest... is the Forgotten Realms just going to be come "Drizzt does Waterdeep (or whatever location they are talking about in this book)"?
ROFL. As much as I like Drizzt as a character, I sure hope not. I had just got to the point where I was pretty sure that everything would be okay (as long as they took the time to present the events at the end of the GHotR in a way that makes sense, I hate hype campaigns  ), then Rich began talking about making racial deities aspects of human deities or parts of human pantheons. Considering that the diversity of races amongst humanoids (and non-humanoids for that matter) and their racial pantheons is part of what I love about the Realms, this concept is utterly revolting to me. Talos and Gruumsh aspects of the same deity? I am pretty sure the Orcs will take offense at that. Sehanine Moonbow and Seluné aspects of the same deity? I am pretty sure that Elves will find that concept quite offensive as well. And it is just setting up for the humans to say, "Hey, we are better than you because your deities are just aspects of ours! Nah nah nah nah naaah nah nah!" Am I the only one who feels this way? What was the market research for that?
Q: "Would you be more likely to play of DM in the Realms if it was more human supremacist?"
A: "Well, hell yeah! Bleep them Elves and Dwarves and Halflings. They should have to worship our deities!" |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 21:18:17
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Last night I tried to make sense of Magic of Incarnum,which contains suggestions for placing it in various settings, and which Eytan has tried to link to the Realms, but I couldn't help thinking that the efforts to put it in established settings were less heroic than desperate.
I myself tried my hand at game design ... (snip).
I have had the opposite experience. My games (both inside and outside the Realms) have not been the difficult to manage with multiple magic systems. I probably helps that I read most of my D&D books cover to cover though (I am not trying to imply that you don't Jamallo). Also, the player has to have had at least read the parts of the book pertaining to and understand the specific magic system before I will allow them to use it with a character. That way I am only helping them with minor points instead of every freaking step of the way.
No harm, no foul. Perhaps my bad experiences with multiple magic systems are just a product of my own limitations as a DM. (There! I've acknowledge my lack of omnisicience and omnipotence.) Or they might have been a factor of the systems I was using not having a pre-determined interface. (Playtesting at conventions where I was running games with players who didn't fully understand all of the systems was no help, either.)
(In what follows, I've capitalized the names of the systems of magic and various classes to which I am referring, which aren't necessarily the convention used in the presentation of the material in their respective source books.)
Perhaps if there was some way to determine what trumps what once Vancian magic is purged, I would be less leery of it all. According to Tome (3E), at least as I understand it, Shadow Magic (the type presented in the book, which is not Shadow Weave magic) functions almost exactly like Weave shadow magic, but it isn't the same thing. Left unsaid (at least I didn't find it) is how Vestige Magic intereacts with Shadow Magic and Truename Magic, and so on. What happens, for example, when a Trunamer and a Shadow Caster go toe to toe and the Truenamer knows the true name of the Shadow Caster, while the Shadow Caster can turn the Truenamer's own shadow against him or her? What happens to that confrontation when it involves something in which a Vestige has an interest and a Binder with a pact with that Vestige turns the battle into a three-way? And if an Incarnum user and a Psionicist join in for a free-for-all, who can trump whose magic?
I ought to acknowledge here that one reason I wasn't pleased with Magic of Incarnum is that the only way a True Neutral can utilize Incarnum is to be a Totemist, a character who is, by default, an illiterate barbarian(!!!), although not necessarily a member of the Barbarian core class with all of the advantages that entails, and which may not even survive to 4.$$$.
D&D was founded on Vancian magic, a system I never fully grokked until I actually read Vance's Tales of the Dying Earth (a very good collection of his novels and stories) a couple of year's ago. On the other hand, I did read almost all of Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion novels, which formalized "alignments" in fantasy literature, and I have always been comfortable with the understanding (reinforced by Planescape) that some worlds and planes are more skewed towards one alignment than others, and the conflicts between opposite alignments also vary from world to world and plane to plane.
In the worlds of the Eternal Champion (mostly alternate Earths), the struggle is between capital-L Law and capital-C Chaos, with the synthesis being the Balance (True Neutrality); on Toril, the struggle seems to be mostly between Good and Evil, with the synthesis again being the Balance (True Neutrality). The most powerful NPC spellcaster the players in my campaign deal with is a True Neutral who follows Oghma (whose domains on Toril include Balance); what the deuce am I supposed to do when WotC decrees that something like Incarnum is the new magic system on Toril and this guy can't use it unless he trades in his elegant silk cote-hardie for feathers and beads? !
I might also ask where The Rod of Seven Parts saga (which is ultra-canonical, even for the Realms, being cited in both the War of the Spider-Queen sextet and the Age of Worms advwenture path) fits in with Incarnum on Toril?
Rubbing salt in all of this, I just followed the article path from the page with the cover and found Eytan's article on placing the Tome of Battle in the Realms. Ye soon-to-be-without-divine-realms gods! I confess that I haven't read all of that book, but I've read enough to have seen the first-level power of the Shadow-sword-whatchamacallit, which is pretty much: "You don't see me, so I kill you. ... You don't see me, so I kill you...." If I understand that correctly, the battle I postulate above becomes a matter of who the Shadow-sword-whatchamacallit decides to kill first! Mind, you, there's a place for that system, too, but the Realms ain't it: Michael Stackpole's world of the Secret Atlas trilogy, Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time saga, yes, but not the Forgotten Realms.
I strongly suspect that in 2008 my campaign will bow to Ed Greenwood's superior wisdom and become AD&D, as is his home campaign. I use most of the AD&D supplements now, so I might as well use the system, too, and save myself the thousand dollars or more that 4.$$$ will cost. I think WotC has backed itself into a corner. Why should I continue to throw good money after bad when I won't live long enough to have my players explore all of the extant AD&D material, hmmm? It's taken us a year of real time to fully play out the Horde Campaign, so I think that we should be good for a few more years if they descend into Hell for 90-something character levels to fight Orcus in the Bloodstone campaign (and then Dead Gods, which will let them do Planescape ... and then there's Spelljammer...).
(Edit: Open mouth, insert brain. Correction made for Tome of Battle.)
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 14 Dec 2007 23:20:39 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 21:30:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
I'm just wondering when Drizzt became the Realms Poster Boy.
(snip)
Actually, I think Blackstaff was the original "poster" boy, but "someone else was the original "cover girl." ... El, however, has always been the narrator, as far as I know.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 13 Dec 2007 21:57:01 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 23:51:27
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Wow...just wow.
Are you kidding me? This is what the Realms is being...degraded to?
Since when did you need encyclopedic information to run FR? You didn't! It was just fun to read such a highly detailed setting, that's what made it popular.
Since when did the setting's NPCs ever jump in on the PC's parade? I never did, and when I did, it sure as hell wasn't any known NPC (always an NPC of my own creation).
Since when did FR need to be rebooted this badly? It's supposed to grow, not shrink...wow. Just amazing how they can get away with this, seriously. If they haven't already, they're going to piss off about 75% of the Realms-fan base. (The other 25% still hang on in desperate hope).
My question is, what is Ed even thinking? From what I've heard, I really don't even think he can salvage any of this, honestly. I'd have "hopped off the galloping horse" a long time ago as he eloquently put it. Because I don't know about everyone else, but how can he not see that staying on that horse is leading into one huge pitfall?
Based on principle, were I in his situation, I'd have walked out. It's ridiculous. And the suits did have something to do with this, too, I don't believe a word from them when they say the "suits" had nothing to do with it.
I don't know whether to laugh manically or cry from the death of a wonderful campaign setting...  |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 23:28:44
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I will give the baatezu their due, Razz. Until yesterday I didn't know just how enormously successful R. A. Salvatore's books have been. They far outstrip the sales of other Realms novels. Many people only know the Realms through the eyes of Drizzt. If I owned or licensed a cash cow like that, I wouldn't hesitate to milk it for all it's worth.
Where the Hasbro Realms business model fails, however, is the point at which novel readers become gamers. How many will want to invest a thousand dollars in D&D and FR books when they discover that huge numbers of people who have been deeply invested in the Realms have abandoned them (or Wizards of the Coast, at least!) because the Realms Hasbro is selling from 2008 onward is no longer the Realms in which Drizzt appeared (and reappeared, and re-reappeared...)?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 08:51:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Angels might not be automatically good just so the PCs have a reason to fight them? That's so unimaginative! It's not like there's a shortage of other creatures to fight, and there's no reason why the PCs couldn't have some other reason to be at odds with angels (maybe the PCs aren't that nice).
I am not suprised about this change remembering the blog entry from one of the designers a few weeks ago playtesting 4th ed. "It's so cool ... bla ... and the we went into the dragon lair to get the directions for our next destination from the dragon, and after we got it, we slew the dragon for his hoard and experience and teleported to our next destination ... bla ... did I mention how cool all of this is, without unneeded description and unnecessary fluff?"
Why bother with aligments of monsters if the player will slay them under all circumstances at the end? We have to make sure he will be able to do so without paying a penalty for his selfish behaviour. 
That reminds me of a certain type of player in NWN slaying every (NPC-)monster no matter if it is hostile or not and without paying any attention to one's own aligment.
Did I mention that I think this design decession ("several formerly good monsters are now going to be "unaligned," thus meaning almost every monster is a potential opponent.") is the most stupid thing so far?  |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 15 Dec 2007 08:53:50 |
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ddporter
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 19:49:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
That reminds me of a certain type of player in NWN slaying every (NPC-)monster no matter if it is hostile or not and without paying any attention to one's own aligment.
That seems to be the problem in a nutshell. The more I read about 4e, the more it looks like Hasbro/WotC is trying to turn D&D into a tabletop video game. |
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Sage of Stars
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 01:41:55
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Actually, Jamallo Kreen, the key phrase in your sentence about Salvatore's books is "have been." WotC have pushed no other FR authors with anything like the money and energy they push Salvatore, yet his recent titles, after returns, sell only about 3 times what, say, Ed Greenwood books do. His ANNOUNCED press runs are huge, his copies shipped much lower, and then the returns start carving into that total.
Anyone with access to BookScan can see the real totals (publishers who don't want to admit the "real" sales of a title often say BookScan doesn't cover all sales, and this is quite true, but the publishers don't seem to realize that anyone with half a brain can check press time and paper purchased at the VERY few printers used by most North American houses, and also see the Random House or Von Holtzbrinck or whatever distributor's shipping and receiving totals).
The reason I noted "have been" is that the Drizzt sales totals used to be much higher. As with everyone else, over-exposure and fickle public taste can cause dips in most characters' popularity (even Sherlock Holmes, who is as good as it gets in "durable" English-language characters, goes up and down).
I have nothing at all against R.A. Salvatore: he's a good writer who serves a particular readership very well, and he outsells their other writers. Yet if I'd been running TSR or later Wizards of the Coast, I'd always have been pushing about five FR writers with equal energy, and treating them just as well, not putting all my eggs in one basket.
If you look back over the publishing history and publicity spending, it's no wonder the Drizzt books outsell everything else FR: they got ALL the big publicity bucks and most of the publishing slots. Or to put it another way, if Mickey Mouse is popular, great - - and if as a result you give the public a diet of 80 percent Mickey Mouse books, it should come as no surprise at all that Mickey Mouse outsells the other 20 percent of your titles. (Until the day the public gets tired of Mickey, and then it's a darn good thing you also have Donald Duck, Goofy, and a host of others.)
Which leads back to the question I once overheard asked of Mary Kirchoff, then head of TSR Books, at an ABA convention (the same big annual shindig now called Book Expo America): "Yeah, but what if this Salvatore guy gets run over by a bus tomorrow?"
Her answer was a quick and dismissive "He won't," but all that told me was that no one had planned for what would happen if the Salvatore pipeline DID stop.
I'd rather have seen (in addition to Drizzt) the same level of support and titles for Cunningham, Greenwood, Grubb & Novak, and a "shifting slot." Back then, I'd have let all of the above, including Salvatore, use this fifth annual hardcover to try OTHER characters and tales set in the Realms, then later let Steven Schend try his hand at a trilogy; nowadays, I'd be having Paul Kemp and Richard Lee Byers take turns filling it, bookended by whichever new discovery in mass market (Jaleigh, Erik de Bie, et al) seemed popular, to give them a chance at a one-shot hardcover with a big publicity push. That way, if the sales of such a tome take off, you have just added a name to your "solid sales stable" that the large American chains (Borders, Barnes & Noble) will be LOOKING to order, not needing your sales force (if you HAVE a sales force; I've not seen any recent evidence that WotC really does, other than getting Random House to do it) to persuade them to stock.
But then, what do I know? Three decades of writing and selling successful sf novels and owning substantial shares in two major publishing houses is all the cred I have. And people like that obviously aren't the people anyone at Wizards is listening to.
I've heard that fantasy readers are so more numerous than pencil-and-paper gamers that Wizards these days sees about 70 percent of their sales from novels (hence the expanding lines). Yet the New York houses used to regard TSR/later WotC sales figures with awe or disbelief, they were so high. They no longer do so, because those figures have come crashing down. Hence a 4th edition.
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Edited by - Sage of Stars on 16 Dec 2007 01:46:29 |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 02:13:15
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quote:
Originally posted by ddporter
That seems to be the problem in a nutshell. The more I read about 4e, the more it looks like Hasbro/WotC is trying to turn D&D into a tabletop video game.
I've noticed more and more products moving in this direction. I believe it is due to the lack of imagination in our new generations. They lack the ability or even the desire to pretend. Why should they, when everything can be laid out for them in stunning 3-D computer animation? The less active imagining the player has to do, the more likely they are to buy it and play it. Otherwise, it's more like work. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Edited by - Brynweir on 16 Dec 2007 02:14:48 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 02:19:56
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I would have so much to say about the recent posts of this thread    .
However, I've been told to avoid discussing the nature of D&D (what the above posters are doing here!) so I'll keep my mouth shut and I'll try to forget this thread |
Edited by - Skeptic on 16 Dec 2007 02:20:21 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
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BENTISTOS
Acolyte
Germany
9 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 10:50:03
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| I would be quite surprised if it wasn't Waterdeep or Shadowdale... |
Eternal Might I Was Born To Wield |
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Verghityax
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 11:09:03
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| I've just seen the cover of the new FRCS and to be honest I do not feel encouraged to put my money into WotC pockets. I know that one shouldn't judge the book by its cover but in my opinion this particular cover is absolutely irritating. It lacks the 'FR feel'. What's more, it doesn't look like Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting anymore. It's Drizzt Campaign Setting. I really wouldn't be surprised if WotC now puts Drizzt on cover of their every FR product. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
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Verghityax
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 15:04:19
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quote:
Originally posted by BENTISTOS
I would be quite surprised if it wasn't Waterdeep or Shadowdale...
As would I. The most detailed town they ever had was Daggerford in 2e North boxed set. Perhaps they will updat that. Or perhaps another Dales town like Highmoon. Those are the types of places I wuld suspect |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 17:13:04
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by BENTISTOS
I would be quite surprised if it wasn't Waterdeep or Shadowdale...
As would I. The most detailed town they ever had was Daggerford in 2e North boxed set. Perhaps they will updat that. Or perhaps another Dales town like Highmoon. Those are the types of places I wuld suspect
I would be surprised if it was. There is too much info on those places to put into the FRCS and include everything else. I would suspect it is a town, possibly in the Silver Marches area, that would follow their Points of Light philosophy. It could be in the Western Heartland, possibly one of the trade towns. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
Edited by - Mkhaiwati on 16 Dec 2007 17:13:33 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 18:03:51
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It hasn't been officially announced, but I feel comfortable confirming that it will not be Shadowdale or Waterdeep.
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Anyone have an idea on the "fully detailed town" that will be included in the new FRCS?
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 18:08:37
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quote:
Originally posted by BENTISTOS
I would be quite surprised if it wasn't Waterdeep or Shadowdale...
Waterdeep clearly a city and to detail a city clearly would take much space.
A Dale clearly more likely I wpuld expect a population of 2,500 to 5,000 and if that large odds are it will not be fully detailed. Farms would likely exist and a map might even indicate farm lands and buildings but not complete details. Odds are good the main streets will be detailed, the Town Hall and leaders, stores and owners, travern and workers, the Watch and/or Guard and so on. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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BENTISTOS
Acolyte
Germany
9 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 07:44:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by BENTISTOS
I would be quite surprised if it wasn't Waterdeep or Shadowdale...
Waterdeep clearly a city and to detail a city clearly would take much space.
A Dale clearly more likely I wpuld expect a population of 2,500 to 5,000 and if that large odds are it will not be fully detailed. Farms would likely exist and a map might even indicate farm lands and buildings but not complete details. Odds are good the main streets will be detailed, the Town Hall and leaders, stores and owners, travern and workers, the Watch and/or Guard and so on.
I thought of Waterdeep and Shadowdale (the thorp, not the dale) because they are the two sites I recall first when I think of "fully detailed towns" in 2nd and 3rd Edition. Of course there were a lot of other towns in 2E, but not many so detailed.
quote:
Originally posted by Mkhaiwati
I would be surprised if it was. There is too much info on those places to put into the FRCS and include everything else. I would suspect it is a town, possibly in the Silver Marches area, that would follow their Points of Light philosophy. It could be in the Western Heartland, possibly one of the trade towns.
If we think about what happened in Shadowdale in the Scouring of the Land Module - high level NPCs like Elminster or the other chosen away, Syluné finally dead, everything damaged by Zhents, population scared... - I think it would not be too hard to adapt that to the POL philosophy. And if they do, they have a reason to put El back on the FRCS cover.
It's not that I would not like to see a previously undescribed town being published but I imagine Wizards to use material they already have. |
Eternal Might I Was Born To Wield |
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The New FRCS
