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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 20:46:39
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| I just like to point out that we might know much about 4E races and classes in December (4 months, ironic or purposeful)? Just a little note. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 21:19:28
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I've seen the online "presentations"... and I am sad, and determined that I won't buy any of the new stuff, even for the Realms, unless it is only "fluff". Hell, most of my knowledge on the Realms is still locked in my memory due to reading the novels. But doing the math, just a little it appears that we
a) have to buy the book(s)
b) pay a monthly fee for the D&D insider
c) pay a nominal activation fee to unlock the extras regarding the books (whatever nominal may be!)
d) pay for ink and whatnot if we wanna printo out some additional stuff from Dragon or Dungeon magazine
I highly doubt that Wizards will actually update stuff three times a week every week. I also doubt that they fix glitches in the print-versions of the books. There will be many things they claim will happen, but how will they (Wizards) gain new players to the game? I doubt they can gather new players with this way to set things up.
Why would a kid with the attention span of a housefly change from his "great gaming experience" he has with whatever ego-shooter or nintendo game, which lasts roughly 20 minutes or so, switch to a game where you have to read (the HORROR!) the rules and then stay at the virtual table hearing how an adventure unfolds slowly, when he can do way more in less time in any MMORPG?
Why would old hands use the new stuff when the most fun part is sitting around the bloody table, munching pizza and having a laugh with your friends while playing?
In a book I published years ago, me and my co-writer said that RPGs help kids develop their social skills, with D&D insider and the virtual gaming table, you have no need to develop those anymore because whomever you are insulting or whatnot will not come back at you anyways...
I play WoW, occasionally...but it can never ever replace the fun and spontaneity of a gaming table. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1073 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 21:47:06
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I must agree with Mace Hammerhand
Sadly D&D are gona´ cost more than it usually did, if it didn’t cost to much to start with. The Coin Suckers as some board’s calls (wizards), are going to suck more money out of us.
I can’t imagine kids have money enough to buy Dragon or Dungeon magazine and the other things online.
Hell no! I am going to stick with the old dices and books, and keep on playing the old way.
Vic
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 22:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by LucianBarasu
I love this site, and I hate to be the scowler and the pouter in the corner...
but Ladies and Gentlemen...Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons: The Gathering Edition 4
Soon we shall see Dungeons & Dragons : Weathertop, and Dungeons and Dragons: Oasis, and Dungeons & Dragons: Ice Age.
*ponders about the new PrC of : Black Lotus*
i'm firmly deciding on going back to 2nd edition (where I have more books) and hug my ThAC0!
lol |
News of the Weird
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 22:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Hmmm, wouldn't black and white printouts actually be cheaper overall? And yes, I can understand not wanting to gaze at a computer screen all the time. Reading paper is more relaxing and easier on the eyes.
I don't know about exact printing costs in the U.S., but I think it'll cost about the same sum, even if you use your own printer (when you add the subscription cost to what you pay for paper and ink).
If you use a printing house, at least here in Finland most of them charge a stiff price (about 20 euros) for "security reasons" (risking a potential virus infection) - and that's a hefty sum if you only wish to print a single article/adventure. And if you wish to print at a public library, for example, you will paying 10 cents/page (10 euros for a 100 pages!).
If you have a Laser Printer with a Duplexer the cost isn't that much... But is still very annoying. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 22:01:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Hmmm, wouldn't black and white printouts actually be cheaper overall? And yes, I can understand not wanting to gaze at a computer screen all the time. Reading paper is more relaxing and easier on the eyes.
I don't know about exact printing costs in the U.S., but I think it'll cost about the same sum, even if you use your own printer (when you add the subscription cost to what you pay for paper and ink).
If you use a printing house, at least here in Finland most of them charge a stiff price (about 20 euros) for "security reasons" (risking a potential virus infection) - and that's a hefty sum if you only wish to print a single article/adventure. And if you wish to print at a public library, for example, you will paying 10 cents/page (10 euros for a 100 pages!).
You're right--at a library or some other "printing place", you'd have to pay a fee (10 cents per page is standard for libraries, I think). But I imagine that using your own printer would cut down on the cost. And of course, it's a matter of what you are willing to trade off--i.e. less money for a less comfortable reading experience (staring at the monitor).
But getting the PDFs wasn't cheaper, WotC is charging the exact same price for the PDFs as they are for the Books. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 22:07:14
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Okay, first off, I'm not thrilled with the whole 4th edition idea, and on top of that, I really feel like I've been intentionally misinformed when it comes to what was said about 4th edition and when it was coming out. Just so you know where I'm coming from.
That having been said, I have to make a couple of points.
1. WOTC is a company, and they have to make money. They can't do this all for free, and even if WOTC wants to, I doubt that Hasbro would be so forgiving. We might have some room to argue about how much money they really need to make, but they do have to make money.
2. Most indications are that the online tools are no more needed to play the game in 4th edition than it would have been in 3.5, meaning that you can still play the game without all of the online bells and whistles. Plus, while we don't have firm pricing, I keep hearing rumors of around 10 dollars a month for the DI (which may just be a rumor).
That would be around 120 dollars a year. I used to pay 80 dollars a year for the Dungeon and Dragon subscription, and actually, Paizo raised their cover price a few months back but wasn't able to stick around long enough to raise subscription rates.
I guess my point is that its not that much more if you do want all of the bells and whistles, unless the rumors are drastically off.
I'm not sure all of this is needed, or that they couldn't have done some of this with 3.5 still in place, but at the same time, of course they are doing this to make money . . . I've yet to see a charity RPG company.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 22:25:40
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Like I said, this has the potential to be great, but I doubt it will be. The internet gives us the opportunity for so much more interaction, and the availability of players for a game goes up astronomically!
However, I've seen them (TSR/WotC/Hasbro) drop the ball way too many times to have delusions that this will become all that it can be.
It's sad, because the potential is there - with the right systems in place there can be something for everyone. I had envisioned years ago a virtual world where players can 'walk around' and meet other players, receive E-mail ("Thee haseth mail"), newsletters, build game-related sites, etc, etc...
My dream could become a reality, or it could fall on its face. They plan on going with an 'ad' model to keep costs down, which is good. Thats what most of the successful sites are doing, like Youtube and Myspace. In fact, 'IF' they do things right, this could become the 'next big thing'. However, they named the server 'Gleemax' - obviously the folks in charge are not at all in touch with the real world. Anything with the word "Glee" in it is doomed to failure in this day and age. The people who make the decisions are not 'plugged-in' to what turns people on, and so I have very little hope of this going anywhere.
Have you been over to the (atrociously ugly) Gleemax server? They tried to gather interest by having 'mysteries' for folks to solve -everyone got bored with it right away, and no-one is bothering with the 'mysteries' anymore. It, like everything else done lately, was handled poorly by inexperienced, clueless people.
Is the guy who thought up "New Coke" still running things for Hasbro over at WotC? That would explain things, then.... 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 23:52:51
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Virtual D&D was bound to happen eventually. If anything, the only thing holding it back was that Hasbro licensed ALL of it's electronic properties to Infogrames a few years ago and that license finally ran out (and was renewed just recently.) This is probably happening now because the new license allows it.
In any case, Magic the Gathering Online has been a HUGE success for Wizards of the Coast. I myself hate it, being someone that bought the Magic Interactive Encyclopedia which offered all the cards free with free online play, with free chat rooms to find people to play again. MtGO changed that, had to pay for virtual packs that were completely random.
What Wizards is doing with D&D isn't a new idea, they've been doing it with Magic for years now and Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo are doing it with 360, PS3, and Wii. Hobbies are turning into electronic micro-transactions for extra stuff you can't get from product that requires manufacturing.
I like all the new stuff we're seeing. My big concern is that they're going to screw up the game mechanics. I already don't like that they said you can't convert your 3E characters to 4E, so don't try. I'm in 1 campaign with the same character for 4 year and we have no intention to stop. It's said I won't be able to take the same character, personality, and history and see that with the new stuff. (However, I do remember converting my AD&D fighter/thief to a fighter/rogue and realizing much later that 2 of the 3 exotic weapon proficiencies were a waste in 3E compared to AD&D.. luckily my DM was a nice guy and let me change the feats when at my next level. EWP Bastard Sword wasn't a waste though.) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 23:57:40
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Virtual D&D was bound to happen eventually. If anything, the only thing holding it back was that Hasbro licensed ALL of it's electronic properties to Infogrames a few years ago and that license finally ran out (and was renewed just recently.) This is probably happening now because the new license allows it.
In any case, Magic the Gathering Online has been a HUGE success for Wizards of the Coast. I myself hate it, being someone that bought the Magic Interactive Encyclopedia which offered all the cards free with free online play, with free chat rooms to find people to play again. MtGO changed that, had to pay for virtual packs that were completely random.
What Wizards is doing with D&D isn't a new idea, they've been doing it with Magic for years now and Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo are doing it with 360, PS3, and Wii. Hobbies are turning into electronic micro-transactions for extra stuff you can't get from product that requires manufacturing.
I like all the new stuff we're seeing. My big concern is that they're going to screw up the game mechanics. I already don't like that they said you can't convert your 3E characters to 4E, so don't try. I'm in 1 campaign with the same character for 4 year and we have no intention to stop. It's said I won't be able to take the same character, personality, and history and see that with the new stuff. (However, I do remember converting my AD&D fighter/thief to a fighter/rogue and realizing much later that 2 of the 3 exotic weapon proficiencies were a waste in 3E compared to AD&D.. luckily my DM was a nice guy and let me change the feats when at my next level. EWP Bastard Sword wasn't a waste though.)
Rob Heinsoo said in his interview that he has actually been rethinking the "you can't convert" stance. He originally said they didn't want to do a straight "if you have X feat, it turns into Y talent" kind of conversion, but he also said that its not impossible to "thematically" convert a character over, and they may provide some guidelines now.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 00:15:48
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Well a guide on how to make your 3.5 charater can transform into a 4th character might be useful, there are many things that can not translate.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13457928#post13457928
Is a report from one person that attended a Friday discussion. The report appears somewhat contriditory as to changes, by at least appears to be a report from the scene of the c***** news. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 19 Aug 2007 00:17:16 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 00:18:05
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Rob Heinsoo said in his interview that he has actually been rethinking the "you can't convert" stance. He originally said they didn't want to do a straight "if you have X feat, it turns into Y talent" kind of conversion, but he also said that its not impossible to "thematically" convert a character over, and they may provide some guidelines now.
There was probably a lot of negative feedback. People don't like being told to stop roleplaying something they like and start over.
If Wizards comes around and says, if you're X level, or have X xp, then your this level or have this much XP in 4E, then we're fine. I don't see the point in saying, Move Silently and Hide have become Stealth.. that much is obvious. And probably won't be using Ranks anymore in skills (like saga edition), so there's no need to worry there. They just need to tell us what the a level 10 wizard 3E (for example) is in 4E. It's not a level 10 wizard anymore because 3e is 1-20 and 4e is 1-30.
I'd wager that what they've probably done is taken the original 20 levels and put in a "half way points" between the original 20. For example, level 1 - 2 is 1000 xp. Well I bet that between 1 and 2 is a new level that you need 500 xp for (let's call it 1.5.) That would explain where the 10 extra levels come from. So all these new half way points make the trek between levels much shorter. It also allows Wizards, Sorcerers, etc. to get their spells faster. Say they get 1 level 2 slot (for example) a level before they can cast level 2 spells, so they can use it to prepare more spells. I realize magic is going to work a bit differently in 4e, but this certainly be a trick they could pull to adapt the current rule set.
*shrugs* We'll see.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 00:24:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well a guide on how to make your 3.5 charater can transform into a 4th character might be useful, there are many things that can not translate.
Of course there isn't some stuff that doesn't translate, but X levels or X amount of XP should have some kind of conversion. We know fighters are going to be more like Tome of Battle, which is fine, but what would be a reasonable conversion of a level 10 fighter who's had the same adventures.
The conversion guide could say straight out, pick new feats, new spells, new skills. The conversion guide just needs to say, if your this, your this know. I'm looking for not abandoning characters, I'm looking to abandon character sheets. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 19 Aug 2007 00:31:25 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 00:30:53
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Well what type of conversion they offer, if any, will be interesting to see.
As for the 1-30, the levels 21-30 will still be called epic (based or the report I linked in my last post this thread). It just might be there Epic 3.5 rules concerning BAB and saves progression might stay the same as 1-20. Though there is concern about posible change to saves as well. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 00:40:29
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Yes, but Epic could very easily be redefined. 3E has what.. 3 or 4 different sets of level 20+ rules? Gods, FR Gods, Epic, FR Epic.
If the 10 new levels are levels in between the exist 20, then there isn't anything "epic" about them when you're thinking 3E. However, since the Epic handbook never saw additional product support after it was released, they could just scrap the whole epic system completely and make up a new one. I mean the Epic rules weren't part of the d20/ogl stuff anyway right?
So if 4E is still D&D and it's still the d20 "we all know and love" why not only radically change what the part that most players are the least familiar with. *shrugs* Just my thought on the matter.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 19 Aug 2007 00:41:28 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:13:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Perhaps, just perhaps, the new designers are too engrossed in MMO's to see that there is a large part of the population who doesn't see a computer screen as "Face time" with your friends. Sure, I'd love to play a game with Sage, Wooly, and any number of folks here, but I'd like to do it in person (darn near impossible), or in an edition I care about. There, I said it.
Perfectly well put. I don't believe an online social network replaces flesh-and-blood friends. That being said, if I decide to try online gaming, you guys are among the people I would do it with. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:36:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Perhaps, just perhaps, the new designers are too engrossed in MMO's to see that there is a large part of the population who doesn't see a computer screen as "Face time" with your friends. Sure, I'd love to play a game with Sage, Wooly, and any number of folks here, but I'd like to do it in person (darn near impossible), or in an edition I care about. There, I said it.
Perfectly well put. I don't believe an online social network replaces flesh-and-blood friends. That being said, if I decide to try online gaming, you guys are among the people I would do it with.
Thank you.
(first positive reinforcement I've had in a few days, outside of one or two talks with a certain Errant Knight). |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:41:33
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Yes, but Epic could very easily be redefined. 3E has what.. 3 or 4 different sets of level 20+ rules? Gods, FR Gods, Epic, FR Epic.
If the 10 new levels are levels in between the exist 20, then there isn't anything "epic" about them when you're thinking 3E. However, since the Epic handbook never saw additional product support after it was released, they could just scrap the whole epic system completely and make up a new one. I mean the Epic rules weren't part of the d20/ogl stuff anyway right?
So if 4E is still D&D and it's still the d20 "we all know and love" why not only radically change what the part that most players are the least familiar with. *shrugs* Just my thought on the matter.
Only place that I know of that really used the "FR Epic" rules was in the FRCS and that was because Epic Handbook was still in the works when it came out. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:42:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Perhaps, just perhaps, the new designers are too engrossed in MMO's to see that there is a large part of the population who doesn't see a computer screen as "Face time" with your friends. Sure, I'd love to play a game with Sage, Wooly, and any number of folks here, but I'd like to do it in person (darn near impossible), or in an edition I care about. There, I said it.
Perfectly well put. I don't believe an online social network replaces flesh-and-blood friends. That being said, if I decide to try online gaming, you guys are among the people I would do it with.
kinky 
I have to agree with that bit, many here I wouldn't mind the chance to game with, just trying to juggle the time zones would be entirely different story though  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:46:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Which is another thing I was puzzled about being sold as something new and improved, when it really isn't. At least, that's the impression *I* got.
3E is commonly (and I think often fairly) criticized for diluting the D&D archetypes, including by Gary Gygax himself. Evidently 4E tries (or wants to be seen) to correct this while keeping character 'builds' highly customizable.
Hmmm, Faraer, could you give me some examples of this? I think I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure. Was 3E criticized because wizards and sorcerers have such a similar role? Was the rogue considered too much of a catch-all, skill based class? Or does it have to do with the sheer number of new core classes and PrCs (ie. ranger vs. scout)? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:47:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Thank you.
(first positive reinforcement I've had in a few days, outside of one or two talks with a certain Errant Knight).
You're welcome. :) It's only true as far as I know--a computer screen can make for poor company. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:48:31
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
kinky
Hah! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:52:19
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Only place that I know of that really used the "FR Epic" rules was in the FRCS and that was because Epic Handbook was still in the works when it came out.
Hence why I said 3 or 4. But regardless, they were different rules that you COULD use. Wizards didn't have to include them, they could have said, these are Elminster's stats. No explanation, nothing. Instead they chose to put a set of level 20+ rules into print.
FRCS also was never reprinted, with the 3.5 and Epic Level rules. Yes, there was the Player's Guide, but they didn't put Elminster (or the others) were he belonged, in a FR book people would have. I'm not saying you needed his ELH stats, it's just that they're not in the book you'd have for a Realms campaign.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:53:41
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| Just finish the James Wyatt video interview. He mentioned every class except for the Sorcerer.. makes me wonder if they're gonna be in 4e. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 19 Aug 2007 01:54:58 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:56:19
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| I've heard some of the designers mention barbarians, but I haven't heard much in the way of confirming if they are in the game . . . i.e. I've heard people say the word bard, in reference to how they work in 3.5, but not in context of existing in 4th edition. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 02:12:08
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| I certainly hope the bard is still there. POOF! A whole bunch of Realms characters are in trouble hehe. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 02:13:56
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| Oghma probably absorbed all of them in order to create his giant "music golem" avatar to fight Cyric-Leira during the Time of Troubles II in the intervening 10 years that got merrily skipped over. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 02:17:22
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Oghma probably absorbed all of them in order to create his giant "music golem" avatar to fight Cyric-Leira during the Time of Troubles II in the intervening 10 years that got merrily skipped over.
I'd feel sad and outraged, except for the fact that I can just ignore all the official FR products from now on if I want.
Again, I have to ask...WHO came up with this idea? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 02:53:49
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| Hmm watching the D&D presentation at Gencon on Youtube and it seems that D&D Insider tools will function alot like the Neverwinter nights CRPG Toolkits |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
