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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 19:37:49
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I found this over on ENworld, and the discussion took place during Gencon.
"According to Randy Buehler, the game table part of D&DI won’t be out until 2009, but most of the other applications will be out in some form by the end of the year. Bartoneus and I were pretty blown away by the functionality of D&D Insider, especially the character generator. Even the Compendium, which looks pretty sad on its own, gains a few levels in conjunction with the rest of the software." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 16:22:55
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There's a new article up on artifacts... I'm not going to bother linking to it, because one line really scared me away:
quote:
More accessible than in any previous incarnation of the game, artifacts can now make their way safely into the hands of characters even in the paragon tier, or possibly before.
I guess I'm just too old school for this new version of D&D, because I stick with the old view of artifacts: very few, very far between, and insanely powerful. As I recall, 1E DMG specifically called them a way for DMs to break the rules.
I don't want my artifacts "accessible". If an artifact is going to be part of a game, it should be mysterious, nigh-impossible to get, and even more impossible to destroy. And when it is revealed, every power group in existence, every lone operator, and even a bunch of divine servants are going to come looking to take it -- like everyone coming after Shandril for her spellfire, only on a much larger scale.
This just proves even more that I'm no longer part of WotC's target demographic. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 16:33:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
This just proves even more that I'm no longer part of WotC's target demographic.
Don't worry, I'm not either. Does that mean I'm a space hamster? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 16:55:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
This just proves even more that I'm no longer part of WotC's target demographic.
Don't worry, I'm not either. Does that mean I'm a space hamster?
 Only if you're truly blessed by the gods.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 19:11:14
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DDI has now gone to the pay service btw:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insidernews/20081013 |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 19:13:59
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Great.  So no further realms lore. Now the (canonical) realms are really dead. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 21:26:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Great. So no further realms lore.
Unless you pay for it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 15 Oct 2008 21:27:34 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 21:36:49
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| That's the point. I have bought FR source books when I've been interested in them. I will not pay for a service not knowing if it ever delivers anything of interest for me - especially given the fact they made a caricature out the the realms. This lowers the chance for the appearance of articles I would enjoy immensely. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2008 : 09:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
That's the point. I have bought FR source books when I've been interested in them. I will not pay for a service not knowing if it ever delivers anything of interest for me - especially given the fact they made a caricature out the the realms. This lowers the chance for the appearance of articles I would enjoy immensely.
With lorebooks you can flip through them in the shop and decide if you like them or not. You cant do that with the electronic version and also - as Ayunken pointed out - you have to pay and then hope you get something you want.
THIS piece of self-praise (and thats putting it mildly) makes WotC look pretty desperate to me. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
Edited by - Pandora on 04 Nov 2008 09:22:54 |
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Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 13:08:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
THIS piece of self-praise (and thats putting it mildly) makes WotC look pretty desperate to me.
Some might find even find that disgusting, I think. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 13:59:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
That's the point. I have bought FR source books when I've been interested in them. I will not pay for a service not knowing if it ever delivers anything of interest for me - especially given the fact they made a caricature out the the realms. This lowers the chance for the appearance of articles I would enjoy immensely.
With lorebooks you can flip through them in the shop and decide if you like them or not. You cant do that with the electronic version and also - as Ayunken pointed out - you have to pay and then hope you get something you want.
THIS piece of self-praise (and thats putting it mildly) makes WotC look pretty desperate to me.
Hmmmm....
Not even a month since the launch and they seem to be a bit desperate for the subscriptions. Wish I could get my hands on the data for how many subscriptions have signed up. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 17:11:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Wish I could get my hands on the data for how many subscriptions have signed up.
Huh, never a decent Shadowrunner around when you need one  |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 17:20:46
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quote:
Originally posted by arry
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Wish I could get my hands on the data for how many subscriptions have signed up.
Huh, never a decent Shadowrunner around when you need one
Oh, they are there, but not until you prove you can pay for them.  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 21:59:19
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Courtesy of a link in SKR's blog, I just read a bit of a long essay on 4E. It's by a guy who has been playing D&D for many years, and was in fact a playtester for 3E.
Here's the link: PLAYTESTING 4th EDITION
There are a couple things I like about the review.
One is that the guy gave 4E a serious attempt. I'll readily admit that my bad impression of 4E stems not from playing it, but from reading many, many reviews and looking over the rules myself. This guy went all the way, and still didn't like it.
His review is very detailed. It's not just a "4E sucks" review -- he goes into great detail about what he finds broken, and why it's broken. His review is detailed enough that I likely still would have appreciated it if it had been pro-4E.
And lastly, he echoes some of what I've said about why WotC is wrong for trying to compete with MMOs.
I think it's worth reading for just about everyone, even if you're already decided on 4E.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 01:02:28
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Thanks for the link - I'll check it out.
I only just checked the last link that was posted (the WotC one) - so they think people should save money by canceling their internet access, and sign-up for the DDi? 
Oh-KAY.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Mar 2009 01:03:30 |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 02:13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Courtesy of a link in SKR's blog, I just read a bit of a long essay on 4E. It's by a guy who has been playing D&D for many years, and was in fact a playtester for 3E.
Here's the link: PLAYTESTING 4th EDITION
There are a couple things I like about the review.
One is that the guy gave 4E a serious attempt. I'll readily admit that my bad impression of 4E stems not from playing it, but from reading many, many reviews and looking over the rules myself. This guy went all the way, and still didn't like it.
His review is very detailed. It's not just a "4E sucks" review -- he goes into great detail about what he finds broken, and why it's broken. His review is detailed enough that I likely still would have appreciated it if it had been pro-4E.
And lastly, he echoes some of what I've said about why WotC is wrong for trying to compete with MMOs.
I think it's worth reading for just about everyone, even if you're already decided on 4E.
He really hit the nail on the head. The big difference in 4e that I noticed and that really bothered me was that they threw away roleplaying. I have always liked roleplaying a lot more than combat, but there are far too many limitations and holes in 4e for me to have a roleplaying experience that is as rich as that I can get from 3e. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 02:17:56
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| I will give this a read immediately. Thanks for the link. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 02:27:51
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quote:
Both experienced and newbie players were frequently trying to perform shifts as minor actions, only to remember (or be reminded) that the kobolds could only do that because of a racial ability. (And this was despite the fact that I was playing with open stat-blocks to help the players figure out the mechanics.)
Just want to point out that we didn't have this problem, and our party consisted of the DM and myself who were both experienced, as well as two "newbie" players. We all got it right off the bat that it was a Kobold ability (that was with the quick play rules). But I can still see it being overlooked by some. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 02:34:09
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quote:
(As I've written before: "It's often the abilities that a creature has outside of combat which create the scenario. And not just the scenario which leads to combat with that particular creature, but scenarios which can lead to many different and interesting combats. Noonan, for example, dismisses the importance of detect thoughts allowing a demon to magically penetrate the minds of its minions. But it's that very ability which may explain why the demon has all of these minions for the PCs to fight; which explains why the demon is able to blackmail the city councillor that the PCs are trying to help; and which allows the demon to turn the PCs' closest friend into a traitor.")
You can easily say that the demon is able to do that outside of combat. I think the DM has that flexibility without having cluttered stat blocks to memorize for combat. But if everything needs to be there for one's pleasure, to each their own (I always personally found it hard to run new monsters, trying to remember all their options in combat, whereas it is much simpler in 4E) - remember though, I still enjoy both 3.5E and 4E (just pointing out pros for 4E since I keep reading negativity everywhere on here) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 02:40:35
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quote:
All of these flaws in WotC's reasoning remain equally valid when it comes to 4th Edition, but we can also add another one to the batch: Due to the "padded sumo wrestling" nature of the system, monsters in 4th Edition tend to have lifespans much longer than 5 rounds. Since their tactical options have been limited, 4th Edition monsters tend to do the same couple of things over and over again -- they don't have any other choice, after all. This is not only the result of the "padded sumo wrestling" combat, but also contributes to it by making the longer combats boring.
I have to agree...there does seem to be a tendency for combats to run longer than they should, with creatures taking much more of a beating than they should be (maybe if you had more uses of your daily and/or encounter powers)...but long combats could be boring in 3.xE as well...its all in how the Player's and DM play it out really in the end. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 02:43:45
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quote:
Making things even more difficult is that many abilities in 4th Edition are immediate actions: They take place during other characters' turns. In 3rd Edition most creature abilities can only be used on the combatant's own turn -- which means that simply taking a few moments to look over a monster's stat block on their turn was generally effective. But in 4th Edition it's not enough to simply be able to quickly parse a stat block, you pretty much have to keep a large number of abilities in your head at all times so that your monsters can take advantage of the triggers for their actions as they occur.
This actually applies to PCs as well. I remember forgetting () that my cleric had a power that, as an immediate interrupt when an enemy scored a critical hit on an ally, I could turn that into a regular hit. But of course, this is easier to remember as a PC than as a DM |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 02:49:39
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quote:
(2) You have far less ability to customize your character.
Can't argue that point (there will be more options as time goes by, with more products coming out, but the power system is somewhat limiting - not to say that it is bad...different IMO - which is why I enjoy both systems) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 02:58:43
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quote:
In 3rd Edition, a group who wanted or needed to continue adventuring could invest in resources -- like a wand of cure light wounds -- that would allow them to do that. In 4th Edition, however, that same group will find itself literally incapable of pressing on.
The 3.5E group I was in actually had a problem with healing (especially going into Undermountain) until we started getting wands of cure light wounds.
But its true that in 4E it kind of is limiting that be it a Cure Wounds Spell from the Cleric or a short rest or healing potions, it all uses your daily healing surges. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 03:11:36
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quote:
NON-COMBAT EQUIPMENT: I've talked about this before, but all non-adventuring equipment and most of the non-combat adventuring equipment has gone M.I.A. in 4th Edition. This includes staples of the dungeon crawling genre like 10-foot poles, chalk dust, and the like.
I agree. I didn't give it much thought till now, and it makes me sad  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 03:22:36
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| Anwyays I just finished reading it (I skimmed through the last part about how he came to enjoy D&D cause I am sleepy)...and I won't comment on anything specific anymore. I agree with parts of it and disagree with parts of it. I enjoy both 3.5E and 4E D&D. They each have their strengths and weaknesses (some of which are present in both and others which are better in one rather than the other). I can say that some things from 3E I would take into 4E (alignment system) and some things from 4E I would take into 3E (action points, the way Actions in combat is explained simply (Standard, Move, Minor and how you interchange them) and the movement in combat). Both fun systems in their own right, but of course, to each their own |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Rhone Ethenkhar
Acolyte
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 09:51:54
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I really agree with this guy's essay, even if it is written in a slightly pretentious way. More than anything, I agree with him on the area about how 4e does not play like D&D used to.
And I guess that is the major reason why, while I think the 4e game is fine as far a game goes (it is good enough to kill some time with), but just not up to par to be considered a replacement for the last edition of D&D. |
" Unlike me, many of you have accepted the situation of your imprisonment, and will die here like rotten cabbages...I intend to discover who are the prisoners and who are the warders." -the Prisoner |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 13:26:21
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
He really hit the nail on the head. The big difference in 4e that I noticed and that really bothered me was that they threw away roleplaying. I have always liked roleplaying a lot more than combat, but there are far too many limitations and holes in 4e for me to have a roleplaying experience that is as rich as that I can get from 3e.
While I understand that, that doesn't mean 4E literally "threw away roleplaying." |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 14:09:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
He really hit the nail on the head. The big difference in 4e that I noticed and that really bothered me was that they threw away roleplaying. I have always liked roleplaying a lot more than combat, but there are far too many limitations and holes in 4e for me to have a roleplaying experience that is as rich as that I can get from 3e.
While I understand that, that doesn't mean 4E literally "threw away roleplaying."
Agreed Rino. You can still roleplay in 4E. There are just more rules covering combat than non-combat situations. Roleplaying shouldn't require too many rules anyways. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2009 : 14:35:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
He really hit the nail on the head. The big difference in 4e that I noticed and that really bothered me was that they threw away roleplaying. I have always liked roleplaying a lot more than combat, but there are far too many limitations and holes in 4e for me to have a roleplaying experience that is as rich as that I can get from 3e.
While I understand that, that doesn't mean 4E literally "threw away roleplaying."
Agreed Rino. You can still roleplay in 4E. There are just more rules covering combat than non-combat situations. Roleplaying shouldn't require too many rules anyways.
The complaint that I've heard most often is that while roleplaying is still possible in 4E, it's not supported by the rules the way it was in prior editions. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
