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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 05:12:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And Babylon 5 stole Chekov, so I never watched a single episode (even though I did play the B5 miniatures game).
Oh, but Bester -- "Dark Chekov", as I called him -- is one of my all-time favorite bad guys. There are so many times during the series when you want to see Ivanova follow Sheridan's not-quite-tongue-in-cheek command "Strip him naked, then throw him out the airlock." But then there's other episodes when he shows his humanity (twisted though it may be), and it just adds so much flavor to him... Kinda like how Darth Vader became so much more compelling when he dropped his little bomb on Luke on Bespin...
And as someone who watched the original Star Trek and several of the movies, I can easily say that Bester is orders of magnitude cooler than Chekov (though I did like it in Star Trek IV when Chekov was looking for the "nuculer wessels").
Bester is an awesome bad guy, and he'd be an excellent basis for any D&D Big Bad Evil Guy (see me bring it back on-topic, sorta?  ).  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Jul 2008 05:13:04 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 06:02:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And Babylon 5 stole Chekov, so I never watched a single episode (even though I did play the B5 miniatures game).
Bester? I'm inclined to agree with Wooly. "Dark Chekov" was one of my favorite characters from B5, and the novels for that matter. He's not an easy villain to classify, and that's why I like him. While he could be cold and calculating... he also had a side that hinted at something more than just "evil for evil's sake." In fact, a little bit of Bester's character has influenced how I portray the "older" Sememmon in my Realms -- where the once-Lord of the Darkhold had honed his manipulative and intimidatory skills. His raw displays of power weren't needed very often after that. Very much like Bester.
quote:
Dr. Who is hit-or-miss for me - some story-lines are great, and others appear to be written by a three-year-old. I loved the 'Ood' though, lifted wholesale from D&D's Illithids.
Russell T. Davies has expressed some rather intriguing thoughts on the Ood. I managed to catch a snippet from the soon-to-be released DW Companion. I suggest you track down a copy when it's released Markus. You may find it interesting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 00:23:45
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Since $E is actually becoming popular with some people, I wonder if its just WotC manipulating their minds by sending high freequency radiation from their $E preview sites to the unsuspecting players.
No need for hundreds of books if you make your fans zombies...
So in order to counter this, I've just found these special Grognard Sunglasses
that allow people to see that 3rd edition is still and always will be better than $E.
Mind you, there are some people that are so into $E that it's hard to make them see the alternatives and as such, a huge old smack down may be needed 
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Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Edited by - Talwyn on 20 Jul 2008 02:38:41 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 00:38:45
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Unfortunately this is a continuation of the off-topic discussion above, but since I'm responding to TWO mods I'm hoping not to get hamster-smacked. 
I'm serious - I never watched a SINGLE episode - I have no idea what you guys are talking about! I think I watched the pilot, or at least part of it, but it didn't 'do it' for me, and since 'Chaecov' was added later, I never even seen him on the show. To me it would be the same as seeing Sulu on Heroes... you just can't help saying "but that's SULU!"
Anyhow, you'll be happy to know Sage (don't know where you're from Wooly) that the only SciFi anything that comes close to my Star Trek fandom was Farscape - EXCELENT series. Too bad lame-ass Stargate took two of the actors (although it was a clever move - it got me watching THAT series).
Battlestar might make my 'top ten' list, but I consider the new series more of a 'space opera' then true SciFi (despite how good it is).
When I played B5 miniatures, I was the guys with the big, weird hair (otherwise looked human) because I liked their ships, but otherwise knew absolutely nothing about my race. Maybe I should try to find someone with them on DVD to see what all the fuss was about.
What does this all have to do with 4e D&D? Well... like B5, maybe 4e deserves a second look.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Jul 2008 00:41:42 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 09:46:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn
So in order to counter this, I've just found these special Grognard Sunglasses
that allow people to see that 3rd edition is still and always will be better than $E.
HAHAHAHA - so 3E is now for grognards, my my how times (and editions) change so quickly......
Damian
ps best let normal service resume |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Rhone Ethenkhar
Acolyte
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 15:58:33
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So, I tried out 4e on Friday night. And here is the verdict: I had a good time.
First off, for me at any rate, 4e will not replace 3e or any other edition of the D&D game I play. I personally felt the way the mechanics operated, it is very similar to a boardgame/adventure game, as there is a great deal of movement on the board once combat commences. I would stress it is absolutely essential to have miniatures and a combat mat. This too bad imho. But there you go.
It requires player's to operate as one unit as opposed to individuals. This is because a lot of the "powers" one possesses hinges a lot on having everyone working together (Warlord in particular). Combat was no faster or slower than 3e imho. Then again, it was our first session, so maybe it will speed up with further play. And as much fun and intersting as it was, I do prefer the style of tactics in 3e better because it caters more to the individual.
But having said that, outside of combat the game operates as it always has; you make choices and deal with the ramifications/consequences.
The things I did not like were very minor things like Fighters not being proficient with plate mail right off the bat (you'd have to use up a feat in order to do so). That was dumb.
Alignment may as well have not been included for all the use it is.
Overall, I had a good time. It is a game primarily of combat and tactics imho. "Shifting" is a huge factor in the game (moving ones opponents around the table). The game is very much focused on character abilities and not equipment.
I figure though, even if you wanted to still use the PC classes, skill system from 3e and the alignment system, you could do so, as long you kept the "power" part of 4e intact. Otherwise, it plays very much the same imho.
To be fair though, I have not experienced all that 4e has to offer. I expect to do so in future sessions. |
" Unlike me, many of you have accepted the situation of your imprisonment, and will die here like rotten cabbages...I intend to discover who are the prisoners and who are the warders." -the Prisoner |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 02:21:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhone Ethenkhar
I figure though, even if you wanted to still use the PC classes, skill system from 3e and the alignment system, you could do so, as long you kept the "power" part of 4e intact. Otherwise, it plays very much the same imho.
Would mind clarifying exactly what you are saying here?
Also, has anyone playtested using 4e monsters vs 3e characters? From what I have seen in the 4e Monster Manual, it looks like you can subtract ten (-10) from Fortitude, Reflex and Will and use them against 3e characters with no problems (also, when a character would have to roll an Endurance (a 4e skill) roll you could just substitute it with a Fortitude roll). I think that this might work, but I have not had the time to try it out myself. Of all the parts of 4e, I like the simplified creation and adaptation of monsters the most. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 02:40:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhone Ethenkhar
The things I did not like were very minor things like Fighters not being proficient with plate mail right off the bat (you'd have to use up a feat in order to do so). That was dumb.
I was wondering about that, myself. :-/
quote:
Alignment may as well have not been included for all the use it is.
I kind of agree. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rhone Ethenkhar
Acolyte
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 17:28:44
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Rhone Ethenkhar
I figure though, even if you wanted to still use the PC classes, skill system from 3e and the alignment system, you could do so, as long you kept the "power" part of 4e intact. Otherwise, it plays very much the same imho.
Would mind clarifying exactly what you are saying here?
Sure. If one were so inclined to use only part of the rules for 4e, you could. The powers/exploits are what, imho, differentiates 4e from 3e. Feats are still there and so are skills and alignment. As long as you kept those powers/exploits but didn't change anything else (aside from spells of course) you could use the bulk of 3e rules with the addition of 4e exploits/powers. OR at least, that is how I perceive things
I find all the minor differences such as hit points and hit dice of monsters easily changed and/or manipulated. Same thing with magic items. Hell, I still use the general template from 1e/2e for most of the magic items and such in my 3/3.5 game!
But let me be clear; I have no intention of doing a hybrid game, I merely noted that if one desired to do so, I felt it was quite possible with minimum fuss. Incorporating 3e into 4e would be another matter altogether imho. |
" Unlike me, many of you have accepted the situation of your imprisonment, and will die here like rotten cabbages...I intend to discover who are the prisoners and who are the warders." -the Prisoner |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 17:45:44
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| we play with hybrid rules, but the balance is dependable on the DM's skill |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 18:30:51
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| The idea that fighters don't start off proficient with plate armor doesn't bother me. During the first part of the real-world Middle Ages, full suits of plate armor didn't exist. Even after they were invented, they never became something that every soldier wore. |
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Rhone Ethenkhar
Acolyte
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 22:21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
The idea that fighters don't start off proficient with plate armor doesn't bother me. During the first part of the real-world Middle Ages, full suits of plate armor didn't exist. Even after they were invented, they never became something that every soldier wore.
While I would never attempt to argue with history (at least in this venue and said topic), I will say that for the last 22 years or so whenever I have chosen to play a fighter I could use plate mail (whether I could afford it or not is a completely different matter). I don't like that they have decided to change that aspect of things and imho, penalize one for wanting to do so with a fighter, if you run the game btb. Added to which, I am not making a soldier but an adventuring fighter in a fantasy world no less. Just my opinion, however. |
" Unlike me, many of you have accepted the situation of your imprisonment, and will die here like rotten cabbages...I intend to discover who are the prisoners and who are the warders." -the Prisoner |
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Rhone Ethenkhar
Acolyte
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 22:21:52
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Sorry, damn double post. |
" Unlike me, many of you have accepted the situation of your imprisonment, and will die here like rotten cabbages...I intend to discover who are the prisoners and who are the warders." -the Prisoner |
Edited by - Rhone Ethenkhar on 21 Jul 2008 22:22:41 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 22:54:48
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| Also, not to start an argument here, but the preview material for 4E did address the subject of "the burden of (real world) history", and it was specifically stated that they don't want history to get in the way of fun and fantasy. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 23:28:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
The idea that fighters don't start off proficient with plate armor doesn't bother me. During the first part of the real-world Middle Ages, full suits of plate armor didn't exist. Even after they were invented, they never became something that every soldier wore.
Just picking up on this, plate armour IRL, takes a bit of time to get used to wearing and especialy learning to move with a new centre of gravity. You have just added at least 20 kilos of weight around your body which is in parts is articulated and in others completely inflexible.
Now, add the complexity of being proficient in combat by weilding a sword etc as well as a shield and if you're feeling really brave, riding a horse as well!
Enforcing a Heavy armour proficientcy makes sense to me. |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Edited by - Talwyn on 21 Jul 2008 23:29:31 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 23:50:24
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Just watch A Knight's Tale to see how uneasy it is to learn how to fight in armor - you spend more time learning how to 'get hit', then any type of dodging that is possible when less-encumbered.
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Of all the parts of 4e, I like the simplified creation and adaptation of monsters the most.
From a DM's perspective, I would have to whole-heartedly agree. The simplification to putting together encounters is very reminscent of OD&D or 1e.
However, from a fan's perspective (of FR and D&D), the new monster manual is completely flavorless. A wonderful tool, but little else. Unlike previous editions, it reads like an auto-repair manual. 
So the DM in me embraces it, but the monster-lover in me wants to know what the difference is between each iteration of a creature type, aside from a prefix and boost in abilites. Seriously, a couple don't even have pictures, which leaves me wondering what the hell the thing looks like, when there is NO description in the stat blocks. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Jul 2008 23:54:49 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 23:58:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
However, from a fan's perspective (of FR and D&D), the new monster manual is completely flavorless. A wonderful tool, but little else. Unlike previous editions, it reads like an auto-repair manual.
I agree, but I am planning on seeing how well I can apply the rules they give in 4e for quickly modifying monsters on 3e monsters. It should be interesting. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 00:22:37
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| Rhone and Rin (sounds like a vaudeville team!), I completely agree that D&D is a fantasy game and real world history need not get in the way of our fun. And I'm pretty sure that denying fighters automatic plate armor proficiency was not done out of some slavish devotion to the facts of actual medieval military history, but rather because somebody thought it contributed to game balance or something like that. But I was just making the point that, if you look at real world history, it's not something that annoys you by virtue of being intrinsically stupid and unrealistic. Because it's not. |
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Rhone Ethenkhar
Acolyte
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 01:17:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Rhone and Rin (sounds like a vaudeville team!), I completely agree that D&D is a fantasy game and real world history need not get in the way of our fun. And I'm pretty sure that denying fighters automatic plate armor proficiency was not done out of some slavish devotion to the facts of actual medieval military history, but rather because somebody thought it contributed to game balance or something like that. But I was just making the point that, if you look at real world history, it's not something that annoys you by virtue of being intrinsically stupid and unrealistic. Because it's not.
I agree whole heartedly with what you say, sir.
The area which I put in bold: I concur. And I say balance be damned! At least in this one aspect.
I never said that because this new development may go along with our reality better, I did not like it. To be more concise: I only think it is "stupid" within the context of the game. I never look to the real world for reference when playing D&D, by and large.
Oh and just so there is no misunderstanding, I am not offended or anything like that. I certainly I hope I have not offended anyone either. |
" Unlike me, many of you have accepted the situation of your imprisonment, and will die here like rotten cabbages...I intend to discover who are the prisoners and who are the warders." -the Prisoner |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 01:51:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
The idea that fighters don't start off proficient with plate armor doesn't bother me. During the first part of the real-world Middle Ages, full suits of plate armor didn't exist. Even after they were invented, they never became something that every soldier wore.
It doesn't bother me either, but one could argue that while not every member of the 3E warrior class has mastered heavy armor, every fighter *would*, as they are the funky, gung-ho, "extreme" dudes who will dive in caves infested with goblins and worse... |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 10:35:10
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| I use TSR systems if I play D&D, but I must admit that I like the idea of a fighter not being automatically proficient in plate mail. It is a complicated armour that one needs experience and training to master. Then again I prefer to have at least some medieval realism in the game. There is a reason why I prefer proficiency based systems. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 16:49:01
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Interesting stuff posted over at Paizo if anyone cares, pertaining to Hasbro's 2007 financial report.
A lot of fans over there have been cobbling together lists of D&D 'iconic' monsters and creatures that have appeared in other venues, just to have some sort of leg to stand on in case Paizo is ever challenged regarding any IP issues that may arise (although Paizo is careful to avoid shuch things). The idea is to prove that some stuff (like Beholders and Drow) have become 'public domain' over the years because TSR/WotC never bother to protect it's IP.
Now, Paizo has NOTHING to do with this... it is a fan-based thing that was started on some thread when some of us were wondering what, exactly, Paizo could legally use in pathfinder. Its pretty amazing how many times D&D's IP have appeared in books, movies, cartoons, etc, etc...
Anyhow, several smaller companies have gone as far as to produce 4e material WITHOUT getting licensed (despite what certain designers have said), which is REALLY pushing the envelope.
I just thought this 'announcment' by Hasbro very pertinent to what is going on right now on the gaming front, and thats why I posted it here (rather then create a new 'rant' style thread).
At this point I'm not taking sides anymore, but I find the whole affair interesting, and as I have said before, competition is always a good thing for the consumer.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Jul 2008 18:35:28 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 18:07:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn
Just picking up on this, plate armour IRL, takes a bit of time to get used to wearing and especialy learning to move with a new centre of gravity. You have just added at least 20 kilos of weight around your body which is in parts is articulated and in others completely inflexible.
Now, add the complexity of being proficient in combat by weilding a sword etc as well as a shield and if you're feeling really brave, riding a horse as well!
Enforcing a Heavy armour proficientcy makes sense to me.
Well, it's not like the fighter is learning how to use weapons and armor as they level up. It is assumed that a level 1 character is already proficient in their chosen class as well as a "cut above" most other people. I don't see the big deal in letting them be proficient in plate mail, but that's just me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 18:09:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Rhone and Rin (sounds like a vaudeville team!)
I can get behind that.
quote:
I completely agree that D&D is a fantasy game and real world history need not get in the way of our fun. And I'm pretty sure that denying fighters automatic plate armor proficiency was not done out of some slavish devotion to the facts of actual medieval military history, but rather because somebody thought it contributed to game balance or something like that.
Probably, and if so, I suppose that's understandable. I think the 4E ruleset gets a lot of other stuff right, at any rate. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2008 : 19:07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Interesting stuff posted over at Paizo if anyone cares, ...
You mean this: German Pathfinder announced?
Joking aside, the thread has moved and is now found
here. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2008 : 00:03:06
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That was most enlightening on HASBRO's attitude and I can see why they'd be hesitant to start up lawsuits to protect the various IP's that have. The fact is that they may not actually be able to win these laws suits thus they'd have spent, potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars and no doubt will generate enourous bad publicity for no positive gain.
*bursts into toe tapping happy song*
Oh happy days!] |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 16:38:38
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| If you want plate, play a paladin. They start with plate, and if feels like I'm playing a fighter instead of a paladin anyway. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2008 : 15:33:44
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If you have any experience reading the financial report
of companies, you'll find a lot of conservative "this may happen
to cause us to lose money" within the footnotes after the main
reportings. This is just to tell their investors what could happen
in the future to lose their earnings/share. |
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
