| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 16:04:06
|
| And, as I don't even know what a Warforged is, why is it so much of a problem? |
 |
|
|
Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 16:25:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Can someone please give me a specific reference to warforged being in the Realms? I've seen many complaints about the idea, but I've no idea where the idea came from...
They're going to be a Core Race, and I wouldn't be surprised if they appeared in FR as well -- the Empire of Netheril may be a source for many new things, such as the 'magical traditions'. These are all only my own speculations, however. 
I try to remain at least marginally hopeful, but each new article feels like a blow to my heart. Thus far, I haven't seen anything that would make me grab any 4E books, but hey, there's still hope... maybe. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:05:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
On a more serious note, if it were a brand new cosmology, I would like most of it. I don't really like the "redefined" older planes, and if they introduce this to the Realms, then its another "Its always been this way" moment, which isn't pleasant.
I like most of it, except for the whole Abyss being connected to Limbo . . . er . . . the Elemental Tempsest/Chaos/Conflagration/Morass. I don't get how elemental=demons, but hey, it isn't as bad as it could have been.
I hate change, but in truth, I never liked the idea that all the outer planes were infinite. I truly like the idea that the former outer planes are merely domains floating in the abyss. I like the idea that devil lords don't rule over entire planes filled with evil. Quite frankly, this makes them more viable as an enemy. Given that if I did some research, I could probably come up with 20 or so of them, that makes for enough potential epic enemies. When you throw in slaad lords, yugoloth lords, and demon lords... that's a lot of evil out there.
I do wonder though, with demons in the chaos of the elemental land... will there be some relationship/linkage between efreeti and demons? I would hope not, especially since demons are being more bestial in 4e... but... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Odysseus
Seeker
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:12:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Can someone please give me a specific reference to warforged being in the Realms? I've seen many complaints about the idea, but I've no idea where the idea came from...
I believe this is the article where the reference to warforged in the core books originated.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drpr/20070831a&authentic=true
|
“Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody’s power, that is not easy.” —Aristotle |
Edited by - Odysseus on 27 Sep 2007 17:13:44 |
|
|
|
Tiziano
Acolyte
Italy
36 Posts |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:22:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Can someone please give me a specific reference to warforged being in the Realms? I've seen many complaints about the idea, but I've no idea where the idea came from...
They're going to be a Core Race, and I wouldn't be surprised if they appeared in FR as well -- the Empire of Netheril may be a source for many new things, such as the 'magical traditions'. These are all only my own speculations, however.
I recall reading that changelings would be a core race. I don't recall any mention of warforged being core. Does anyone have a link that specifically states they will be core?
Besides, core stuff hasn't always been Realms stuff, anyway. The core deities of 3.x certainly weren't in the Realms. Besides, core races like elves had different versions in the Realms. Until I specifically read that warforged will be in the Realms, I'm not going to worry about them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:43:16
|
Wooly, like everything else at this point, it's all extrapolation from what little is being said.
They have said that playtesters are playing Warforged. Since they are currently working on everything that they hope will make it into the first books, one can surmise that they are working toward the goal of making Warforged core by the simple fact that they are playtesting them. Like Gnomes, if we do not see them in the first release, we WILL see them in PHB II.
Second, several designers have stated, mostly at Gencon, that they are moving away from the 'core vs. FR' mindset, and are working toward creating one concisive ruleset for EVERY world. The setting books will provide FLAVOR, and the splatbooks will provide rules.
With that in mind, I could see them incorporating Warforged into the Realms, using the same rules as Eberron, but calling them by another name (like Bloodforged).
The whole problem stems from the fact that they plan on making everything core also applicable to the Realms, and if Warforge make it into the PH, we WILL most likely see Warforged in the Realms.
BTW, this is not something new, they have been working toward this 'one set of rules for everyone' anti-core goal for quite some time. Notice that the Races of Eberron book did NOT have the Eberron logo on it - it was CORE! Also, Undermountain and Drow of the Underdark were both released without a logo, making them non-setting specific.
They have been planning all of this for over two years, remember. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 17:43:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, now, I think we need to avoid political comments.
Quite right. But I wasn't making a political comment. I was making a joke. Five-year plan - communists. You know? (We need a smiley that look like it's pleading...) |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 18:20:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tiziano
Jorkens, Warforged are an Eberron race: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warforged
Thanks Tiziano. I still don't see why this is more of a problem than many other races they have shoehorned into the setting. It would be simpler than Star Elves at a quick glance. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 19:20:44
|
Its not that they are a problem in and of themselves, it's just that they are currently unique to the Eberron setting.
Think of how Eberron fans must feel, if everything that makes their setting different gets washed out in this new 'everything is core' plan. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 27 Sep 2007 21:23:54 |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 19:28:49
|
The problem I have with the entire 4e thing, aside from what I've mentioned before, is that I do not really feel like Wizards' target audience anymore.
If they want to draw new gamers, why the hell didn't they stick with something akin to AD&D 3e (basically 3e as it came out in 2000) and also release D&D as an intro game to introduce new players? This way stuff wouldn't have to be dumbed down and become more MMORPGesque for AD&D and whatever they want to achieve with D&D could be done to gain new players.
I seriously doubt that with their new online initiative Wizards will gain more players.
I also doubt that with the virtual game table, even a single % of the WoW players will switch to D&D.
I highly doubt that anyone in the market research department knows much about gamers and why they play...
It is all about hanging with people you can have loads of fun with, drink a beer, smoke...um...something, play a good story and do stuff you cannot simulate in a computer environment.
Instead of changing the rules every couple of years, like it has been done, they should take the rules (the OS if you will), stick with them, and publish adventures and worlds, NOT more rules that make the entire thing far too heavy without enough meat to support the game.
If they screw up the Realms, or Greyhawk or whathaveyou, I do care, but same as with Star Wars and the prequels, if I do not like some BS that some people came up with while, without consideration for the people who have supported and LOVED the world as it is, vomit out ideas that screw up everything, be it out of spite or ignorance, or both...if I do not like this stuff, then I ignore it...
Hell, Amlaruil now has delivered the tree of souls to Myth Drannor, the Grand History had the chance to clear that mistake up, when even Rich Baker admitted here on these forums that he had screwed up there, and they did not bother.
Sorry, times were better when Jeff Grubb was watching over all things Realms. At least then we had continuity...
As for the realigning of the universe... *watches tumble-weed roll by, and the dust blow down from the desk* |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 19:50:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Hell, Amlaruil now has delivered the tree of souls to Myth Drannor, the Grand History had the chance to clear that mistake up, when even Rich Baker admitted here on these forums that he had screwed up there, and they did not bother.
 There are several timeline entries in the Grand History that explain how the Tree of Souls arrived in Myth Drannor. The mistake has been fixed and continuity preserved. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
|
|
|
RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 03:39:11
|
| I'd like to see Alias and Dragonbait somehow survive the 100 year leap, still in their prime. Not sure about Erevis Cale, as I am much more fond of his earlier, "street-level" adventures. |
|
|
|
Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 04:22:05
|
quote:
I see nothing logical or consistent (with previously published Realmslore) in the explanations offered so far. Can you *really* claim that after reading the last entries in the Grand History of the Realms? (if you haven't, there're several threads here on Candlekeep that deal with those "explanations").
I do think that the explainations given thus far are reasonable. It does not take too much of a logical to fill in any holes. Why did Mystra allow herself to be destroyed instead of passing the Magic portfolio on as in the past? It could be as simple as she realized the folly of one Goddess controlling the power of magic is folly, the she would always be a target, and there would always be a danger of Shar or another evil god stealing the portfolio.
Yes the details have been sparse, but there is no inherent hole in the explainations given so far. They are pretty sufficient to explain any changes that might happen in magic, cosmology, NPCs, in your campaign 10-40 years in the future.
quote:
I don't want to have Warforged wizards in D&D -- or any wizard clutching orbs or waving wands ("Harry Potter"-style) as they're casting spells. I don't want to have clerics who smite monsters with halberds while healing "flows" into the whole party at each stroke. I don't want fighters who have "semi-mystical" oriental-style weapon abilities that rival the spells of arch-wizards. I don't want rangers launching five arrows per round at lower levels. I don't want characters "bouncing back" from zero hit points with the 'Second Wind' (any resemblance to professional wrestling, hey?).
This is a matter of preference, so pretty futile to argue. I will give it a chance and see how it plays. Clearly character and NPC conversion will be a pain.
quote:
Yes, it *does* matter, actually. I find it kind of embarrassing to explain these changes to my players ("Look guys -- I know that you think that souls used to go to the Fugue Plane, but now there's this place called 'Shadowfell, and *ACTUALLY* that's where the dead and undead dwell. You were just fooled by the previous editions! And all those planar adventures your previous characters have had -- they were just a bad dream, okay? Those planes *never* existed. Don't ask any questions -- just accept this as a fact!"   ).
Actually it doesn't matter, the reconfiguration of the planes is explained by the destruction of Mystra's domain and guess what? If your characters had been going to the Fugue Plane you don't have to explain anything. When they try to go there and it doesn't work, guess what, they actually have to explore somewhere new and figure thing out! You know, adventure, discovery, exploration.
Think about it, instead of galavanting around planes that the Netherese and other empires and old races mapped out thousands of years ago, your characters ARE the explorers mapping out the new planes. So the dead queue up somewhere else now, as I said pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If your characters really need to get there they will being inventive, explore and figure it out. They could go down in Realms history with the great explorers. If they really need to get to where the dead go in a hurry, the can always die (which also solves the problem of converting characters to 4ed).
quote:
I dont have any problems with the Cosmology itself, if this was the first D&D edition we played. Like Knight pointed out, there're just too many changes for us "old-timers" to adapt it without difficulties. Most of us probably have been 'house-ruling' and 'fine-tuning' the planes to work in *our* own campaigns... and even *IF* these "planar changes" were caused by Mystra's death (and we have less explaining to do to our players), all that hard work will be down the toilet with these profound changes.  (and how come the planes didn't collapse or "shift" -- even momentarily -- when Mystryl died?)
Perhaps they did shift momentarily in the same moment all the flying cities crashed into Faerun. If you have spent hours creating house rules and tweaking planes it is also not really relevant because as stated, there are myriad planes floating in the Astral sea. Use them. And again, if you've setup a ton of NPCs and locations in the planes and you want to stay "in Canon" then again it is simply a matter of adventure and discovery by the PCs.
I do not know what you define as an old-timer, but I have been playing in the Realms for 20 years, since the 1st Edition. I am glad there is change coming to the Realms. If they go back and retcon everything and change the past, then I will indeed be the first person to join you in condemning 4ed.
quote:
Uh, Shar and Cyric just teleported into Dweomerheart and killed Mystra , which triggered the Spellplague (see GHotR) -- period. I see no "heroic last stands" or "proper farewells" in that.
Again this doesn't take much imagination. In my mind Mystra had a number of options, hide in Elminster like the ToT, perhaps come back as a new Goddess of Magic, perhaps flee, but she made the heroic sacrifice to allow herself to be destroyed so that the power of the weave would never fall into the hands of the likes of Shar or Cyric.
No need for doom and gloom. The strong and wise shall endure, and a new generation of adventurers will explore the new Realms.
Perhaps I am just old fashioned, I was raised in a strict household. I eat what is put on my plate. I will find a way to have fun playing 4ed. |
|
|
|
Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 05:00:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
quote:
Originally posted by Thauglor
It seems they've narrowed the classes to only what they think is cool. Additional aspects of the game mechanics which'd give more depth are either not mentioned or completely left out.
Of course, for they want you to play quote:
without burdening me with useless information.
I really hope you're kidding with this. Useless information? For me, as a GM and a player, all info is pertinent. That's where the foundation of a world's flavour lies. And rules which allow for greater variety of PCs are imperative. The rest is obviously one's own creation. |
Edited by - Thauglor on 28 Sep 2007 05:54:36 |
|
|
|
Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 05:43:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Second, several designers have stated, mostly at Gencon, that they are moving away from the 'core vs. FR' mindset, and are working toward creating one concisive ruleset for EVERY world. The setting books will provide FLAVOR, and the splatbooks will provide rules.
With that in mind, I could see them incorporating Warforged into the Realms, using the same rules as Eberron, but calling them by another name (like Bloodforged).
The whole problem stems from the fact that they plan on making everything core also applicable to the Realms, and if Warforge make it into the PH, we WILL most likely see Warforged in the Realms.
Oops! I was under the impression that the Warforged were part of the "Flavour" of Eberron.
Seems I was mistaken.
quote:
BTW, this is not something new, they have been working toward this 'one set of rules for everyone' anti-core goal for quite some time. Notice that the Races of Eberron book did NOT have the Eberron logo on it - it was CORE! Also, Undermountain and Drow of the Underdark were both released without a logo, making them non-setting specific.
They have been planning all of this for over two years, remember.
Scary!! I feel like I just woke up, suddenly aware that I've been actually living in a nightmarish realm all these years, fooled into oblivion by mists similar to Ravenloft's. |
|
|
|
Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 06:25:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
The problem I have with the entire 4e thing, aside from what I've mentioned before, is that I do not really feel like Wizards' target audience anymore.
Well... perhaps repeating myself, we may become orphans of the world we nurtured for so long.
quote:
It is all about hanging with people you can have loads of fun with, drink a beer, smoke...um...something, play a good story and do stuff you cannot simulate in a computer environment.
THAT is really COOL!! Hanging out with your fellow players, having fun over a bowl of popcorn, some beer and a set of dice really ROCKS!!
Wow! I just found out the new jargon fits my old style of play!! Neat!!
quote:
Instead of changing the rules every couple of years, like it has been done, they should take the rules (the OS if you will), stick with them, and publish adventures and worlds, NOT more rules that make the entire thing far too heavy without enough meat to support the game.
Geez!! That's the most sensible thing I read in a long time. It's so damn simple that I'm certain it has gone unnoticed. Tweak the rules, but concentrate on adventures!! Superb!!
On a side note, RPGA's policy of restricting the offer of older adventures has not helped much in the way of bringing more players into the game. Try to find some FR adventures for play. There's simply none.
quote:
Sorry, times were better when Jeff Grubb was watching over all things Realms. At least then we had continuity...
Continuity is important in books, in movies, in conversation, in life. Continuity is one of the most important aspects of gameplay. It's even in the core books and as such it shouldn't be taken lightly by those re-writing the rules.
I keep my hopes that Design & Development will still see the light. |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 06:26:03
|
| Well all Fey are evil, *shrugs* and some other planes are lawless. Not much I see that I like, but what concerns me more is design tem is still designing a few months away from 1st 4th pubication. There is some production time required to get product out to suppliers. Design has indicated Monsters are not complete, rules are not complete, etc. and Feb. is only 5 months away (IIRC is the first 4th Ed release). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 06:39:40
|
Hey, why can't we have the core books for a period of probation. Should 4e rules rock as they claim they will, we'd keep the books, otherwise... well.
There comes 4.5e!!
Now, seriously. I'd really like for some guarantee of REAL GOOD QUALITY. I wouldn't be an ISO9000 auditor if I didn't want it.
"Forgotten Realms ISO9000! Consistent throughout two decades of solid gameplay!" |
Edited by - Thauglor on 28 Sep 2007 06:45:26 |
|
|
|
Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 06:59:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Thauglor
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
quote:
Originally posted by Thauglor
It seems they've narrowed the classes to only what they think is cool. Additional aspects of the game mechanics which'd give more depth are either not mentioned or completely left out.
Of course, for they want you to play quote:
without burdening me with useless information.
I really hope you're kidding with this. Useless information? For me, as a GM and a player, all info is pertinent. That's where the foundation of a world's flavour lies. And rules which allow for greater variety of PCs are imperative. The rest is obviously one's own creation.
Of course this was a very sarcastic remark; the second quote is from this WotC play tester, and it is such a silly remark (note my smiley at the end). I agree with all you have said abouve. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
|
|
|
Tiziano
Acolyte
Italy
36 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 07:41:16
|
quote:
I eat what is put on my plate. I will find a way to have fun playing 4ed.
This is a perfectly legitimate choice. For myself, though, since nobody is going to send me in my room if I don't convert to 4th, I'll keep on enjoying 3rd ed. |
http://www.portraitadoption.com/ |
|
|
|
Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 23:26:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
quote:
I do think that the explainations given thus far are reasonable. It does not take too much of a logical to fill in any holes. Why did Mystra allow herself to be destroyed instead of passing the Magic portfolio on as in the past? It could be as simple as she realized the folly of one Goddess controlling the power of magic is folly, the she would always be a target, and there would always be a danger of Shar or another evil god stealing the portfolio.
Yes the details have been sparse, but there is no inherent hole in the explainations given so far. They are pretty sufficient to explain any changes that might happen in magic, cosmology, NPCs, in your campaign 10-40 years in the future.
Oh, come on! Do you really think Tyr would actually kill Helm over getting married to Tymora? Or that Shar and Cyric just teleport into Dweomerheart and kill Mystra in her own place of power?
quote:
Actually it doesn't matter, the reconfiguration of the planes is explained by the destruction of Mystra's domain and guess what? If your characters had been going to the Fugue Plane you don't have to explain anything. When they try to go there and it doesn't work, guess what, they actually have to explore somewhere new and figure thing out! You know, adventure, discovery, exploration.
Think about it, instead of galavanting around planes that the Netherese and other empires and old races mapped out thousands of years ago, your characters ARE the explorers mapping out the new planes. So the dead queue up somewhere else now, as I said pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If your characters really need to get there they will being inventive, explore and figure it out. They could go down in Realms history with the great explorers. If they really need to get to where the dead go in a hurry, the can always die (which also solves the problem of converting characters to 4ed).
Perhaps they did shift momentarily in the same moment all the flying cities crashed into Faerun. If you have spent hours creating house rules and tweaking planes it is also not really relevant because as stated, there are myriad planes floating in the Astral sea. Use them. And again, if you've setup a ton of NPCs and locations in the planes and you want to stay "in Canon" then again it is simply a matter of adventure and discovery by the PCs.
I do not know what you define as an old-timer, but I have been playing in the Realms for 20 years, since the 1st Edition. I am glad there is change coming to the Realms. If they go back and retcon everything and change the past, then I will indeed be the first person to join you in condemning 4ed.
Uh, planes are supposed to be "infinite" (IIRC) and thus a bit hard to map! ;) And I have a hard time trying accept the new names (e.g. "Shadowfell" and "Feywild") that seem to be ripped out of WoW.
I've been playing for 20 years, too (so we're both "old-timers", I guess  ). I must admit that I missed that part about myriad planes drifting in the "Astral Sea" in the article.
[quote] Again this doesn't take much imagination. In my mind Mystra had a number of options, hide in Elminster like the ToT, perhaps come back as a new Goddess of Magic, perhaps flee, but she made the heroic sacrifice to allow herself to be destroyed so that the power of the weave would never fall into the hands of the likes of Shar or Cyric.
So by her "heroic sacrifice" she willingly condemned her servitor deities of Magic into imprisonment or death? And destroyed the Weave in the process, which resulted in the Spellplague and a world-wide cataclysm that killed thousands upon thousands of her followers and shattered the Realms? Sorry, I just can't buy that... and besides, I don't think that Ao would have let either Cyric or Shar to get the portfolio of Magic. But then again, Ao will probably mysteriously vanish, because "meddling" Overpowers don't belong in 4E Cosmology. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 28 Sep 2007 23:30:31 |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 17:12:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tiziano
P.S. 'Cool' should be a banned word...
Of all the modern magic words, 'cool' just may have injured Western culture and thinking more than any other. This is not the legitimate cool of jazz and the Beats or spiritual enlightenment but a fraudulent cool bought with money and affected or real indifference. This glib, short-term cool pretends sacrifice, suffering and causation don't exist -- it isn't comic, isn't tragic and isn't God-comic (wise) -- and it's antithetical to drama and long-term storytelling.
For the 'be one of the cool kids' con, see the chapter on social proof in Robert Cialdini's Influence. |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 23:02:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Hell, Amlaruil now has delivered the tree of souls to Myth Drannor, the Grand History had the chance to clear that mistake up, when even Rich Baker admitted here on these forums that he had screwed up there, and they did not bother.
There are several timeline entries in the Grand History that explain how the Tree of Souls arrived in Myth Drannor. The mistake has been fixed and continuity preserved.
Sorry, Brian, I hadn't read the part on the white dragons etc. It makes more sense now...although I wonder why Lamruil hadn't planted the Tree when they first arrived. It seemed the logical thing after I finished reading Evermeet. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 11:50:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Tiziano
P.S. 'Cool' should be a banned word...
Of all the modern magic words, 'cool' just may have injured Western culture and thinking more than any other. This is not the legitimate cool of jazz and the Beats or spiritual enlightenment but a fraudulent cool bought with money and affected or real indifference. This glib, short-term cool pretends sacrifice, suffering and causation don't exist -- it isn't comic, isn't tragic and isn't God-comic (wise) -- and it's antithetical to drama and long-term storytelling.
For the 'be one of the cool kids' con, see the chapter on social proof in Robert Cialdini's Influence.
Thanks Faraer, that's what I would have said, if I had any idea how to formulate my opinions and make them sound reasonable and intelligent. |
|
|
|
Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 16:39:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Tiziano
P.S. 'Cool' should be a banned word...
Of all the modern magic words, 'cool' just may have injured Western culture and thinking more than any other. This is not the legitimate cool of jazz and the Beats or spiritual enlightenment but a fraudulent cool bought with money and affected or real indifference. This glib, short-term cool pretends sacrifice, suffering and causation don't exist -- it isn't comic, isn't tragic and isn't God-comic (wise) -- and it's antithetical to drama and long-term storytelling.
For the 'be one of the cool kids' con, see the chapter on social proof in Robert Cialdini's Influence.
Dude, that's so not cool |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
|
|
|
Wizbane
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 16:41:12
|
This Warforged discussion made me think.
Let's take a core 4.0 PHB race...elves, to say one.
Are we going to see elves among the races in 4.0 FRCS? If yes, then I didn't understand the whole "one ruleset to rule them (the settings) all". If yes, I'll continue buying products with my favored campaign logo on it, ignoring the others. If not, how are we going to get elven race lore for FR? Will they be called gold elves instead of sun elves then? Or maybe the 4.0 FRCS will have FR specific elves only (star elves come to mind)?
Overall, it's a great mess. If the marketing of the last two years is a sign of what is to come...brrrrr.
I still think that having a FR Fiendish Codex and an Eberron Fiendish Codex would have been better, for example. Otherwise, just give up with multiple settings and choose one!
Are they redoing the rules? Very good! But why tinkering with campaign specific stuff like the cosmology? Or even races, to a degree.
IF a Ravenloft CS supplement comes out, there will be Warforged in it? What about a Dragonlance setting full of tieflings? A Planescape setting without the Great Wheel?
There are good designers out there, but the lacking of a clear design policy is starting to hurt.
Wizbane
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 19:35:55
|
This just my opinion, mind you, but this is what I infer from what little is being said -
The rules for Elves will be in the Core books. The fluff for each will be in the setting-specific books. In other words, GH will still have Gray Elves and FR will still have Gold Elves - but all of the mechanics around them will be identical.
Same thing with Warforged - I doubt that we will se that Eberron-specific name in the Realms, but we will most likely get a very similar race with a different name that uses the Warforged rules.
If Ravenloft was still being handled by TSR, then YES, we would definately see Warforged appear in some new Realm amongst the mists (maybe all of the Mournlands). Ravenloft was designed with bits and pieces of EVERY other official setting, even unique ones like Athas. There is no reason (aside from flavor corruption) to keep Warforged out of RL (they already have half-golems).
I can't possibly see how Planescape would work with out the wheel, unless they re-write just about everything that has gone before. Since there seems to be a certain focus on making the Outerplanes more 'user-friendly', we may see exactly that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Wizbane
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 08:09:58
|
Having rules for a setting in the core rulebooks (five they said if I remember correctly), without repetitions in the campaign specific expansions is fine I guess. In any case let's hope they'll stick with one way to present their products without changes on the fly.
Honestly, in the past how many of us did buy a product presenting the stats of the archlords of the Nine Hells? I think I got them a gazillion times among the various editions...and I skipped 3.5 (as many others, so it was not a successful way of marketing their products I think).
|
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 08:26:13
|
What sort of 4e predictions for the map do any of you have?
I'm thinking the Semphari are going to move in and conquer Mulhorand and the Civil War in Thay is going to totally nuke that kingdom as is...possibly allowing the Rashemi and the Witches some hand in what was once Thay.
The Simbul has said in the past (in the 2nd Ed. Seven Sisters book) that after she saw to the fall of Thay, it would be time for the nations of Mulhorand and Unther to fall to her plans as well! Will the Simbul have a direct hand in the destruction of these Empires? Makes me wonder just what may happen.
Drizzt hints that Sembia is in a seeming shambles...and we have hints in the latest WotC works that a civil war erupts. I'm thinking Cormyr will grab pieces of Sembia; but the Shades and Elves are both going to dip their hands in right alongside the Purple Dragons and the Black Network.
Anyone else have any predictions? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
