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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 19 May 2003 : 12:56:59
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Greetings,
I haven't got this book yet, but I was just hoping that those that have could provide some brief details about events in the book. Also, whether it is any good, and basically what you thought of it personally.
I have mentioned SPOILERS! in the thread title so those who have not read it are fairly warned.
Thanks in advance.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2003 : 13:29:29
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I haven't read it yet. In fact, I'm not going to be reading any sort of Realms novel (well, maybe an anthology) for a while.  I've only got a bit of time before a summer class and then a summer job, and I already promised a good friend of mine (who doesn't know anything about the Realms except what he picks up from me, the heathen  ) that I'd read some other things as soon as I got out of exams. I'll still be jumping back and forth between sourcebooks for FR and D&D as I try to catch up to my fellow scribes, but that's not a violation of my promise. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2003 : 13:40:18
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I remember what I had to read during my exams -
Prince of Lies
and the Spellbound campaign expansion. Non FR related, I had the Planescape Guide to the Astral Plane.
Good learning...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2003 : 13:52:00
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 Years ago, I'm ashamed to say, I didn't believe my brother when he said that I'd not have enough time to read when I was in college (I couldn't have been more than fourteen at the time). Now . . . well, I'm reading more than he did, I'd say, but then he's always had better study habits than his younger brother. I'm a lot more flighty. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2003 : 14:57:03
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Ahh...
The habits and joys of youth.
How I miss it.
Anyway as an added question, does anybody know who is responsible for the art of the front cover of the book?.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 May 2003 14:58:28 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2003 : 15:03:25
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| Ask Rad. He's always crowing over new cover art! |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2003 : 15:11:10
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Well then,
Rad!, Rad are you here. Could you possibly help me with this information that I am looking for. The Great Bookwyrm suggested I consult you for this answer.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2003 : 15:40:58
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Sure Sage
The cover art is by Brom! I LOVE the cover of Condemnation. Ive got it as my desktop wallpaper on my home PC, laptop and PC at work  Hmmmm, or is that a bit too sad rather than cool 
= |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2003 : 06:57:45
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I wouldn't call it sad.
Brom's art is simply outstanding. Also I have noticed that he has been the artist responsible for the last two books of the series. Does this mean he will be drawing the covers for the remaining 3 books?.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2003 : 07:47:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
I wouldn't call it sad.
Brom's art is simply outstanding. Also I have noticed that he has been the artist responsible for the last two books of the series. Does this mean he will be drawing the covers for the remaining 3 books?.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
I think I heard somewhere that he is doing all the covers for the WotSQ series. An excellent set of covers for an excellent novel series!
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 21 May 2003 12:01:08 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2003 : 15:09:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
Another question -
Does anybody know who the other authors for the other three novels are going to be?.
Yep. If you look inside the frontmatter of any of the three books already out, you can see a full list.
Extinction: Lisa Smedman, Jan 2004
Annihilation: Philip Athans, July 2004
Resurrection: Mel Odom, Jan 2005
And I will also confirm that Brom is lined up to paint the covers for all six books. He's doing a fabulous job, isn't he?
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2003 : 07:04:52
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Simply superb.
Brom's artwork is great and it really sets the theme amd tone for the entire series so far.
Also thanks for the information Mr Reid. Somehow ( ) I must have missed the frontmatter, instead just diving right to the first page of the books and starting to read.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2003 : 13:27:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
Also thanks for the information Mr Reid. Somehow () I must have missed the frontmatter, instead just diving right to the first page of the books and starting to read.
Easily understandable.
Also, I suppose I should point out that the release dates changed somewhat between the first and second books, so the most accurate information is in the more recent books.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2003 : 19:49:44
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Hello all,
I do not think I have ever posted here before though I lurk a bit and write bit (I just do not post the writng here). Unfortunately, I am probably going to make a bad first impression - this thread asked about the latest War of the Spider Queen book and so I will discuss a little bit of it - but I am rather upset by the book. Ok, I am a LOT upset by the book.
I am one of those drow-obsessed people RPGers love to hate about as much as most D&D Player-Characters hate drow. I have been drow-obsessed since my right after my dad taught me to play and then I flipped open the back of the old G-3 module and caught a glimpse of elves with black skin, white hair and a whole lot of attitude. Once I found out they were a matriarchy, I was totally hooked - it seemed girls DID have a place in D&D - even if as the villains. So, I stayed obsessed about them for, well, ever. So, this is the root of my issues with Condemnation -
There are blatant errors and inconsistancies.
WARNING - SPOILERS AHEAD
I will only go into one such mistake/inconsistancy: In the beginning of the book, the villain, Nimor, creeps into Qu'ellar Tlabbar, castle of House Faen Tlabbar, and assasinates Matron Ghenni Tlabbar and one of her daughters.
Problem: THERE IS NO MATRON GHENNI. There WAS a Matron Ghenni'tiroth Tlabbar, also called "Ghenni" but R.A. Salvatore killed her off in "Siege of Darkness" - infact, Matron Kyorl Odoran, the psionic leader of doomed House Odoran (then third house of Menzo) tore Matron Ghenni's heart out and left it and her on Matron Ghenni's own sacrificial platter. Matron Ghenni's designated heir, Fini'they, an adopted daughter, was also killed in the attack.
Kyorl was subsequently sucked into the abyss by Lolth and her entire House destroyed by a giant tentacle that pulled it all into the clawrift.
In later books, and game materials, Matron Ghenni'tiroth's successor is clearly identified as Ghilanna, one of her surviving daughters.
"Condemnation" seems to ignore ALL of that - using only the OLD matron's nickname and assasinating her all over again. She gets killed more often than J-Lo gets married for Lolth's sake! In addition, the descriptions of Ghenni (and Vadalma her new replacement) do not match the traditional descriptions of the Faen Tlabbar women.
OK, having said that, I will say this - the writing style is fine, things move along, wholesale slaughter of priestesses is avoided (one of my pet peeves) - BUT - and it seems clear there was a lack of editing or research or both. This tells me that while the author may be talented, the people who put this book together do not really care about the subject matter - the drow. They do not even know the Menzo history which the previous books have created.
This worries me. Already the WotSQ series has destroyed Ched Nasad and in the game books Maerimydra. Also, in Condemnation, Eryndlen is said to be in the same state as Menzo. House Agrach Dyrr has turned traitor and one war or another it will undoubtedly be destroyed and I fear many of the Houses we drow fans will face the same fate (for instance, Arvyndar, home to everyone's fav Vampire drow Shyntlara has fallen).
In otherwords, it seems that WoTC has set the drow on a path of destruction - granted, they may pull out of it if/when Lolth returns, but if they are going to do all these books on the drow, can we not find a little love for the subject matter? A little consistency, a little ... I dunno.
I still play D&D both with a group of friends and online. I am a DM with the "A Land Far Away" ("ALFA") persistant world project for Neverwinter Nights. We have roughly a 1000 members in ALFA on 20 or so servers. After some discussion, because of what has taken place in the WotSQ and the general bad feeling about what is going on etc, ALFA has decided to ignore the events of the WotSQ books. We do not often ignore WoTC "cannon" history.
I realize some of you may think, "well then, ignore it and shut up", but the problem is the game books will follow the novels - and if we in the D&D world choose to ignore the developments WotC puts out, their future products have less and less meaning for us and we find ourselves playing in something of a dead world, which of course no one wants.
The errors (and there are others beside the one I describe)and some of the plot-points in the book go right through my heart like Nimor's rapier went through "Matron Ghenni's", and I do not mean that in a good way.
I do not know where WotC is taking the drow. I have many fears. I am also their target audience - if it has "drow" written on it, I buy it. I know, I know, I should get a life and seek therapy - well, I DO go to therapy, but that is a whole other issue!! LOL All of this may change, indeed is changing. I am actually scared to read any more books in the series for fear of what they are doing to what I think is the most interesting villain race in all of gaming and even to some extent, in Fantasy fiction period.
Sincerely,
Mikayla
**slips into her fireproof nomex suit in anticipation of getting flamed**
Ciao! |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2003 : 22:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikayla
Hello all,
I do not think I have ever posted here before though I lurk a bit and write bit (I just do not post the writng here). Unfortunately, I am probably going to make a bad first impression <snipped>
Sincerely,
Mikayla
**slips into her fireproof nomex suit in anticipation of getting flamed**
Ciao!
Don't worry about getting "flamed" Mikayla. Actually I think your thoughts on the matter were very intelligently written and respectfully conveyed. So long as people show respect here they are given respect.
Now I am one of those people you spoke about. I HATE the drow, but they have their uses. As a matter of fact they are the primary foil for the pc's in the campaign I run. But no matter how I feel about them I think it's terrible that an oversight like that could occur.
I understand your uneasiness, as I felt it too as I read about the retreat of the surface elves when I started playing in the Realms. I was upset because I felt like another tragic overtone like in JRR Tolkien's works didn't need to be done. The elves, my personal favorites were (I felt) being shoved aside like their time was over.
In my campaign events have been set in motion by the Seldarine to change this, but my campaign is not really all that canon. Still the disappointment exists because I think as fans we like to follow the "real" realms as it were, and when the "real" realms don't live up to our expectations....
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Artalis
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Bellua Aeneus Lacerta
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2003 : 13:07:09
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| Hmmm, I didn't notice that mistake Mikayla, but I did notice that when they were traveling down the giant thread in Lloth's "domain", Quenthel told Jeggred to help someone down to another thread, but Jeggred wasn't there, he stayed behind. |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2003 : 04:40:19
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| Hey Bella, yes, that is another big error - also, the description of Mantol Derith in Condemnation is nothing like the map/description in the game materials - I will not get to deep into it - its going to be chapter Two of my parody. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2003 : 19:34:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Bellua Aeneus Lacerta
Hmmm, I didn't notice that mistake Mikayla, but I did notice that when they were traveling down the giant thread in Lloth's "domain", Quenthel told Jeggred to help someone down to another thread, but Jeggred wasn't there, he stayed behind.
Ive just finished reading Condemnation and noticed the very same thing!! I hadnt really read much of this thread as it contained spoilers but was quite pleasantly surprised to read your post here Bellua as I remember the very same situation. I had to go back and re-read the paragraphs before this scene as it didnt make sense and I had to be sure I had read it right.
I cant believe this sort of thing gets through. Ive noticed quite a few grammar and spelling mistakes in FR novels over the past couple of years, but things such as this are quite unacceptable to get through the proof-reading and review stage. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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shadeokhatt
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2003 : 05:46:24
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I read Condemnation and one of the characters seemed to have a past that I must admit I don't know about ... seyll auzkovyn. Who is this drow and what family/city does she comes from?
Does anyone know her story and background out there?
Mikayla?
Thomas Reid?
Sage? |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2003 : 07:22:33
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Well the Auzkovym clan is one of the surface dwelling clans that left Menzoberranzan I think. They are generally not as hostile as the Jaelre, though I think the Eillestrae priestess is not part of the Auzkovym anymore. She is just a character made up for the book I think.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2003 : 06:39:23
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I finished this book about a week ago, and have to say it was pretty damn cool. The story is getting rather intense now what with the seige of Menzoberranzan by the Duergar and the army of the cambion war-lord, and the trek to the Demonweb pits by the main characters. What in the nine hells could happen next?
There were a couple of things that I didn't care for, though. Namely the afore mentioned lack of continuity with House Faen-Tlabbar and the mistake of having Jeggred help when he was left behind to guard the bodies. But the thing I disliked the most was the portrayal of the Eilistraeen priestess and how Hallistra escaped. The followers of Eilistraee can be overly trusting, that's true. It's in their nature. But to be completely taken off guard and surprised by a known hostile drow is just ridiculous. And the part where Hallistra used her bard-like abilities to charm the surface elf was just not believable. I mean, did the surface elf just happen to lose her innate resistance to enchantment/charm magics when the spell went off? I'm surprised a Drow would even try something like that on a surface elf.
Anyway, even with the parts I had problems with, the series as a whole is shaping up to be one of my favorites. I hope the next three are just as good. Bummer we have to wait until 2005 to finish it! Argh! |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2003 : 20:56:13
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I wondered all those things myself.
I thought the Jeggred thing was a mistake on the part of the editors, but that is a common occurence because I think the WOTC editors are below standard. There are ALWAYS mistakes (minour of course) in the FR books that are not caught.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2003 : 22:30:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I wondered all those things myself.
I thought the Jeggred thing was a mistake on the part of the editors, but that is a common occurence because I think the WOTC editors are below standard. There are ALWAYS mistakes (minour of course) in the FR books that are not caught.
I must say that its only in the past couple of years that ive noticed quite a few mistakes, typo's, grammatical errors etc. Maybe WotC have sacked their proofreaders
Still, that aside, WotSQ is so far one of the best FR series to date....alongside Sembia |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Condemnation (Spoilers!)
