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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 17:12:23
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This has been issed by WotC as a zip at http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Downloads/products_frnovel_201337400.zip
and is also available at http://www.o-love.net/realms/sam_lad.html as fair use (i.e. not zipped format).
It is interesting and distressing to me as to what the full book will offer.
Mod Edit: I found this particular scroll floating in the ether.
Other Mod's Edit: Decided to add potential spoiler notice to title. 
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Aug 2007 21:02:12
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 19:37:30
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Aye; I saw this, and quite enjoyed it.
Spoiler:
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The new player added to Lolth and Eilistraee's game creates some interesting possibilities. Also, the change in Eilistraee's appearance is both fascinating and disturbing. The "dispassionate" side of my realmsbrain sees interesting potential developments here, but, on the other hand, I'd personally rather they not take this change to far.
I probably won't read the actual novel right away. Its only ten months until the release of "Ascendancy of the Last", but I get the feeling that I'll be pretty eager to get my hands on that novel immediately after finishing this one. Though I wouldn't call them my favourite Realms fixture at this point, I started my Realms reading with the drow and am very much invested in what happens to them. Thus, a series like this one that purports to really shake up the dark elves has the potential to make the fan in me either very happy or very angry. Normally I find that I'm fairly willing to roll with whatever punches WotC may deliver, but their development of the drow occasionally just gets to me for some reason.
I'm not sure how worthy of discussion this is, but I see a real problem here in terms of further developing the drow story. Lolth and Eilistraee both keep emphasizing that this game is a "winner take all" proposition, and that the game is moving into its final stages. Essentially, they're building the story up for a final conclusion within this trilogy, and the final conclusion the two goddesses seem to be heavily hinting at is the death of one or the other. On the one hand, I can't see WotC letting this happen. Lolth has been a driving force behind many a novel, and I just can't see them letting her croak. (Pity.) As for Eilistraee, her death and Lolth's victory would be a very unambiguous triumph for the nebulous force that we like to call "evil". (You can argue the nature of evil all you want, but I'd say that Lolth pretty definitely fits the bill.) Realms novels have gotten darker as the years have gone by, and I've enjoyed that darkening, but this would, I think, be to much. Much to much. On the other hand, not bringing the plot to one of these conclusions, or some equally pantheon-shattering end, might well make the initial build-up look false. Personally, I'd almost like to see the drow "metaplot" wrapped up, at least for the foreseeable future, preferably with a victory for the "good guys". I'm really not sure why the pantheon has to be shaken up so badly so soon after WotSQ, but, if gods really must die, let them be the vile ones. Maybe then more FR shelf space could be devoted to other stuff. (Also, I would have the satisfaction of watching Lolth get what she's had coming for a very long time.)
Anyway, I enjoyed the sample; (in fact I thought the writing was superior to the majority of "Sacrifice of the Widow"); and look forward to seeing where the story goes in this novel and the finale.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 19:50:41
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I wonder if spoilier label is needed as it is advanve text of a novel. Other then that the perlude appears to indicate only one in the game will live, no matter the numbers of players in the game. Though Eilistraee's bother did not agree to the terms.
The apparent enforced worship by males distubs me greatly as does other indicators of wht is occuring. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 21:03:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I wonder if spoilier label is needed as it is advanve text of a novel.
To be safe, I added that to the thread title.
This also makes the first post I know of that was edited by two mods... Maybe Arky can come along and find something to tweak, just to cover all of us!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Herkles
Seeker
82 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 22:17:34
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very intresting, It is an intresting prelude. the one thing that got me wondering is that in the begining it refrenced some sort of alliance between vhearaun and Eilistraee, yet a few paragraphs later we see vhearaun's corpse and hear his screams. so i am going to guess that he is gone for good now.
Kiaransalee entrence was intresting, and I found it pretty neat. I do hope this explains a bit more about her, which it looks like it will do. it was neat seeing how her move angered eilistraee then seeing lolth's move anger her as well, drowlike indeed.
I really hope they don't kill off lolth. it would in my mind destroy the concept if they embraced eilistraee. i really doubt the priestess of lolth are going to be embracing eilistraee anyways, but we shall see. |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 16:49:11
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I don't know what it is, but this sample actually induced me to like Lolth and Kiaransalee more. Maybe it was their funny, catty little argument with the nitpicking about arachnids and the "Squish. Squish squish." Maybe it was Lolth's snide and rather apropos remarks about corpsified Vhaeraun. Maybe it was Eilistraee's ill-timed line about "Sacrifices are sometimes necessary" after she and her followers have shown themselves willing to cheerfully "sacrifice" males (oh, and werewolves) without a flinch, but coo over and go to length after length to "redeem" females.
Apologies if I'm being too hotheaded here. After this and Sacrifice of the Widow I highly doubt I'm going to like the outcome unless it's a handwaving and a punch of the Reset Button (and what kind of ending would that be, really?). I'll probably buy it anyway, though, and see if the ultimate "winner" of all this ends up growing on me as per this prelude. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 17:04:05
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| We of course need to wait and sees what occurs, there clearly though is a hint that Vhaeraun might still be alive (though not in good shape). I do not see only one Drow god left alive of the three females as a likely outcome. It looks like AO will interfer if not other deities for something close to status quo after all is said and done. Just not sure how the author will get there. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Nighttfall
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2007 : 19:44:17
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All I know is this: If Kiaranselee can get involved, Orcus had better be sitting and waiting his turn too.
I still he and his fellow Archfiends would make better "arbiters" for the souls of the drow than their current pantheon. |
Edited by - Nighttfall on 06 Aug 2007 19:45:28 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 00:51:36
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I share the concerns that certain other Realms-lovers do. While I love Lisa Smedman's work, and I love the way the characters interacted in the first novel, Sacrifice of the Widow, I'm not very keen at all on serious, god-killing changes that the series is bringing to the table. And that's only after the first book!
I can of course just ignore what I dislike--and that's exactly what I'm doing regarding certain other recent "major changes"--but that doesn't mean I can't protest changes that I feel are meant mainly for "shock value" among fans of the setting, or to compensate for a supposed lack of changes in the 6-book War of the Spider Queen trilogy. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 00:55:06
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quote:
Originally posted by TobyKikami
Maybe it was Eilistraee's ill-timed line about "Sacrifices are sometimes necessary" after she and her followers have shown themselves willing to cheerfully "sacrifice" males (oh, and werewolves) without a flinch, but coo over and go to length after length to "redeem" females.
Apologies if I'm being too hotheaded here.
I'm female, and I think you make a good point. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 00:58:54
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quote:
Originally posted by initiate On the one hand, I can't see WotC letting this happen. Lolth has been a driving force behind many a novel, and I just can't see them letting her croak. (Pity.)
And let's face it--she promotes an image that a lot of readers/players seem to find attractive: evil but sexy drow females wearing leather, wielding whips, and enjoying copious amounts of sex.
quote:
Personally, I'd almost like to see the drow "metaplot" wrapped up, at least for the foreseeable future, preferably with a victory for the "good guys".
I like victories for Good, myself, but I while I don't want Eilistraee to die, I also don't really want her to "win it all" either. Part of Eilis's appeal to me, personally, is the fact that she is a struggling underdog. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 13:20:32
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quote:
Originally posted by TobyKikami
Maybe it was Eilistraee's ill-timed line about "Sacrifices are sometimes necessary" after she and her followers have shown themselves willing to cheerfully "sacrifice" males (oh, and werewolves) without a flinch
Hasn't Smedman admitted that she messed up that hunt thing in Extinction? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 17:23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by TobyKikami
Maybe it was Eilistraee's ill-timed line about "Sacrifices are sometimes necessary" after she and her followers have shown themselves willing to cheerfully "sacrifice" males (oh, and werewolves) without a flinch
Hasn't Smedman admitted that she messed up that hunt thing in Extinction?
There's still the callous handling of characters like Selvetarm and the Vhaeraunites, especially compared to everything the Eilistraeens have gone through on Halisstra's behalf through both War of the Spider Queen and Sacrifice of the Widow. As it is, Selvetarm has just as many angst points as Halisstra, maybe more given that his corruption seems more of an accident while trying to impress Eilistraee than Halisstra's conscious choice to snuff Feliane/break the Crescent Blade/etcetera. But Eilistraee "sacrifices" him, watches quite calmly as his head gets popped off, then tells off Lolth for not caring about her family.
And since you brought up lore messups, there's the matter of the masks (also dating back from Extinction) and "Silverflash." Icing on the cake, really. |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 20:29:30
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Let's try to make sure that we don't get too dismissive or sarcastic when discussing fiction. Also, most of this discussion has already been fleshed out in the Sacrifice of the Widow book club, where it got a bit more heated than really was good for civil discourse.
We can certainly discuss this sample chapter here, and by no means to we want anyone to claim they like something that they don't, and even the general direction of the book is fair game, but lets make sure not to continually bring up the same discussions from the past, nor assign motives or attributes to the authors that work on these novels.
Thanks all for the participation, and if you have any questions, feel free to contact the mods or Alaundo, but let's make sure that we don't start going around in circles here, especially before the novel even comes out.
Also, please note if you have any questions about anything, let's make sure to PM a mod rather than clutter the thread itself with any discussion of this post or previous arguements.
Thanks all, and please feel free to return to discussing the sample chapter. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 21:26:46
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I am glad to see something done with Kiaransalee. I do hope she doesn't end up dead, however. I do wonder about that piece though: its description sounds like a Balor, but they usually don't have black skin.
I too would hope they use this to introduce some Orcus and/or Velsharoon involvement as well, just to show how Kiaransalee has her hands in many pots.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 11:49:27
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"Oh dear! What have we done to deserve this?" are my first thoughts after reading the prelude. The dialogue is cheesy and it seems that the depiction of Kiaransalee is just as cliched and one dimensional as I feared. I've read the first book and decided against commenting since I found several faults in the book. I've nothing against the author, she can write well and I'm sure she's not got complete control over the synopsis of the trilogy.
I can see how this trilogy could appeal to some but I honestly feel that the drow would be better served by Qu'ellar Ilythiiri with Lolth as the Matron, Elistraee as Elder daughter, Kiaransalee as second daughter, etc. This would make a good foil for the Selderine.
Ah well, at least a big decision will be made for me if these books lead to the end of my favourite goddess. I'll stop buying D&D books and sell my collection. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Wizbane
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 13:26:12
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Ahh, now that I've read it the anticipation is greater than ever. This sava stuff is a great way to portrait the conflict between the characters.
It doesn't matter what the outcome will be. It's now, before reading the novel, that we are enjoying the story, as much as we enjoyed the scattered fragments anticipating it in like a billion D&D products.
Lolth, Orcus and Kiaransalee. They're all there at last.
Definitely shadowing the new black and white Eilistraee (despite the description of her realm being the highest passage of this prologue).
I don't mind how Kiaransalee is depicted: yes, one dimensional, but I wasn't expecting something different.
Wizbane
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 23:32:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I've nothing against the author, she can write well and I'm sure she's not got complete control over the synopsis of the trilogy.
That's what I've come to think, as well based on what I've read over time. The novel authors aren't necessarily the ones who are masterminding these controversial changes. It's important to remember that there is a company that is largely directing what they write. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 10 Aug 2007 23:34:04 |
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Storm of the Dead, prelude (potential spoilers)
