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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Vanidariaen
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 21:52:13
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| Another wonderful book by Mr Greenwood. I just finished it this afternoon. The action was fast paced and enjoyable. I highly recommend! |
http://tom.myhereandhereafter.com |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 00:00:14
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Indeed, I very much enjoyed this "outing", myself. Just like the first novel in the series, the story is highly character-driven, and we also get plenty of "glimpses" into the lives of different Cormyreans (nobility, commoners, War Wizards, Purple Dragons). I appreciate the fact that Ed seems to have a love for all the characters in his stories, not just the "important" ones. As for the Knights, I think Pennae really shines in this story--it's hard not to admire her after seeing all she goes through (she may be the "thief" of the group, but she also ends up giving the group direction). And while Florin is nominally the leader of the Knights, just like in the first book it's really Islif who seems to be in charge.
If there's anything in this novel that I didn't care for so much, it'd probably be the repetitive scenes where the Knights are running through the cellar trying to find some way (ANY way) to find the king, queen, or Vangey, and everyone else they meet tries to stop them. Granted, many of these scenes are enjoyable and humorous in and of themselves (such as the way-too-arrogant-for-her-own-good Highknight), but it felt like it took too long for the Knights to finally make it upstairs. Of course, those scenes do drive home the point that's often made in many of Ed's novels--adventurers truly can be brash, destructive idiots (to be fair, they often tried to talk their way out of trouble first, though). The scenes with Alusair were delightful--heck, the scenes with a lot of well-known characters were delightful.
I can't wait until the Knights finally get to Shadowdale... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 00:57:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I can't wait until the Knights finally get to Shadowdale...
I've read somwhere this won't happen. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 01:00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I can't wait until the Knights finally get to Shadowdale...
I've read somwhere this won't happen.
*I* read that it wouldn't happen in this particular novel. That is, it could happen before the end of the series. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 01:47:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I can't wait until the Knights finally get to Shadowdale...
I was talking about the third novel.
Edit : I found it, it was in Georges's GenCon report. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 29 Aug 2007 02:40:50 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 02:06:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I can't wait until the Knights finally get to Shadowdale...
I was talking about the third novel.
Then maybe you can give me a link? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 04:01:43
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OK I see it too. Thanks.
My other comments all still apply though. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2007 : 04:17:24
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Agreed. I've finished it, found it highly satisfying, and must emphatically agree with Rinonalyrna Fathomlin that Ed seems to love all of his characters, not just the heroes - - and treats them all well, giving us a better story than the sort of writers who slay casts of nameless thousands without making us care for those doomed spear-carriers.
Ed also has a real talent for making the daily lives of Palace servants and War Wizards and Purple Dragon guards seem real and believeable and just as important to the Realms as the big shots. He also makes the Obarskyrs seem real, not glittering remote cardboard figures.
I'm going to read something else (either Unclean or the new Kemp), and then turn around and read Swords of Dragonfire all over again. I know the second read won't have the "not knowing what happens next" excitement, but I think I'm going to enjoy it just as much, really wallowing in the Ed's slapstick and facing-down-authority scenes.
Highly recommended!
Blueblade |
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Warrax
Learned Scribe
Canada
128 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 04:05:00
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I've just begun chapter 27 of this and I have to say, the book is peaking at just the right time... I'm absolutely LOVING the Knights running around the Palace cluelessly, especially as they keep encountering that lumbering behemoth Doomguard thing. Pennae's been quite funny and Florin has been kind of showing off his fighting abilities.
Islif, Doust, Jhessail and Semoor seem to take a real backseat once they get into the palace (at least thus far) but from what I've seen, they've been amusing. The characters really do come alive, though, each with distinctive personalities and that's a really special skill for an author to have. |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 09:34:50
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I enjoyed the book as well, the end was especially funny with all those nobels suddenly celebrating the knights they were sneering at a few chapters earlier. I certainly don't envy Azoun with all those bootlickers surrounding him..  |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
Edited by - Braveheart on 05 Sep 2007 21:19:00 |
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Warrax
Learned Scribe
Canada
128 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 15:17:57
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| The envoy from Silverymoon was particularly amusing, especially with the queen. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 02:17:35
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Ed tells me the Knights JUST get to Shadowdale when the third book ends (unless things change in the editing). Being the Knights, they get into a huge heap of trouble on the way to Shadowdale, just as in SWORDS OF DRAGONFIRE.
Me, I don't really care. I'm having such a blast just watching Ed unfold "our" characters, and slipping in the Realmslore, and bringing it all to life.
Ed's becoming a darned good writer.
And I can say that as a sometime fiction editor and reader of hundreds of sf and fantasy novels, annually. Ed's never told groundbreaking fiction, or written a standout classic, but he's not trying to. He's either trying to bring the Realms to life, or just spinning a good entertaining yarn, or both (always with humour and satire and multi-layered characterization). I'm always amazed by how many Net posters miss all that, and rush to "review" Ed's books by saying they Suck in some unspecified way, or are wish-fulfillment fantasies (Huh? The guy created the entire Realms, so writing about particular characters that TSR or WotC editors ask him to write about can't be any sort of wish-fulfilment; or do you think, as Realms creator, he has God fantasies? And can you proffer any evidence for that view, really?)
I can't wait for the third Knights book. Or to see what Ed tackles next. (Remember, everyone: Realms writers DON'T get to just write about what they "feel like" writing about; these are all work-for-hire books, and their topics, time and place of setting, and characters involved must all be approved by the company editors. That's why Ed's never had the chance to write that Mirt novel. Or the Alustriel novel. Or . . .)
love to all,
THO |
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Warrax
Learned Scribe
Canada
128 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2007 : 08:09:24
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Heh, no one should be looking for Charles Dickens in a piece of WotC fiction, regardless of the caliber of some of the authors who've written for said company; the novels they produce are not designed to be masterwork endeavors of literary greatness.
They're intended to be entertaining and diverting fiction set in a given setting. Anyone looking for something beyond that is simply out of sorts and asking to be let down.
That said, Ed seems to write in much the same style whether he's writing for WotC or Tor and it suits me just fine because he definitely writes some entertaining stuff. I rather enjoyed his 'Band of Four' stuff and collected the four books in hardcover because of it. As with any author, you've got to prefer Ed's particular style of tale-spinning, otherwise you simply won't get it. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 19:16:56
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This was the most fun I have had reading in quite a long time. It is truely a "Romp Around Cormyr".
Ed of the Greenwood's "Triumphant Tour de Force"!! You could almost hear the Benny Hill theme song playing behind some of the funnier scenes.
How about that ambassador?? I thought that Azoun was promiscuous...She could make him blush!
This one goes immediately onto my "Re-read for pleasure" pile. Maybe even in the special stack with LOTR and Dragonlance Chronicles, to be re-read yearly! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 21:27:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
How about that ambassador?? I thought that Azoun was promiscuous...She could make him blush!
I thought it was amusing how Azoun was the one the ambassador wasn't interested in. She prefered Filfaeril, Laspeera, and Lord Whats-his-name. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 00:45:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
How about that ambassador?? I thought that Azoun was promiscuous...She could make him blush!
I thought it was amusing how Azoun was the one the ambassador wasn't interested in. She prefered Filfaeril, Laspeera, and Lord Whats-his-name.
Yes, that was a nice little twist that was good for Azoun to experience! You caould almost see him say "Excuse me...who's the king here?" |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 03:47:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
How about that ambassador?? I thought that Azoun was promiscuous...She could make him blush!
I thought it was amusing how Azoun was the one the ambassador wasn't interested in. She prefered Filfaeril, Laspeera, and Lord Whats-his-name.
Yes, that was a nice little twist that was good for Azoun to experience! You caould almost see him say "Excuse me...who's the king here?"
Bah! What straight man wouldn't want to watch his wife make out with another attractive female?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 14:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Yes, that was a nice little twist that was good for Azoun to experience! You caould almost see him say "Excuse me...who's the king here?"
Bah! What straight man wouldn't want to watch his wife make out with another attractive female?
*Cough*Cough*......I wasn't going to go down that road..but since you did 
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Warrax
Learned Scribe
Canada
128 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 04:11:35
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| Yes, the ambassador was hysterical. When she kissed Filfaeril, I was completely flabbergasted, which was probably the way I should have felt. It was like being in the crowd of nobles and just hearing a hundred jaws smack the floor. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 01:48:03
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Review of Swords of Dragonfire
I am ashamed to say that I waited so long to get this particular tome. I very much enjoyed Swords of Eveningstar and it was to my shame that I allowed my Eberron purchases cloud me from getting this until last week. Nevertheless, I've read it now and I intend to make my review both lengthy and detailed.
The first thing I'd like to say is that I found this book much easier to read than the previous one. Some of my earlier problems with Swords of Eveningstar are still present but this seemed like a book that had a much more restablished cast. The first book I had a great deal of time keeping up with Ed's "Cast of Thousands" while this book focused more tightly on a small selection.
I was initially afraid that the book would suffer from Lady Crownsilver's death since her seduction by Florin was one of the major story arcs. In the end; she's neither ressurected (which is something that surprised me since the family could definitely afford it) or dismissed as a plotline. Florin spends much of the book intending to avenge her but doesn't become weepy or depressed over her. They had only been seeing each other a short time after all.
I think one thing that I definitely love about this book is the fact that it's functional on a fully straight level as a heroic fantasy and also functions in a metatextual way. I.e. Ed makes a lot of wry comments on D&D and the Realms in particular without ever breaking the Fourth Wall.
The first and most obvious of these qualities is that the Knights of Myth Drannor are trying to cope with the fact that they're the most important people in the Kingdom. Not Azoun, Filfaeril, or Alusair since they became adventurers. This, to me, represents that they're the stars of the story and wondering why they're so damn important. There are plenty of in-story justifications but the most satisfying answer to me is, of course, it's because they're Player Characters.
Likewise, Ed Greenwood makes some fun commentary on the Seven Sisters being girls that bed everyone they can lay their hands on. It's a typical Ed witicism that the son loudly talks about how they're probably warty old crones under their illusion spells only to find out that his father spent the night with Alustriel.
I appreciated the fact that finding treasure in Cormyr is actually fairly hard and that the War Wizards follow up any rumors pretty handilly. Thus, it's an easy trap for adventurers to fall into. I've done that several times and most of my games suggest that a lot of the leads that they follow up on are dead ends.
Best of all, it's fairly obvious that Florin Falconhand and everyone is undergoing a Dungeon Crawl in the very end. They're going from room to room fighting monsters and increasingly random or overthetop encounters. It's hilarious because the "Dungeon" in question is the Royal Palace of Suzail with the monsters and traps being the Purple Dragons mixed with the protections on them.
Honestly, this book has once more caused me to become rather annoyed with 3E as its a bit like taking a visit to an old battlefield you fought in. "Jolly Old Cormyr" is a place that all my player characters remember before the Great Red Dragon wrecked it and my recommendation of Swords of Eveningstar had us all decide to return to King Azoun IV's reign. It's not that we don't like Alusair and Caladnei as Queen/Royal Wizard, it's just that his Royal Lecherousness and Vangey had become dear friends indeed.
Florin Falconhand and the Knights prove to be fairly good protagionists, though in other hands it'd be easy to hate Ranger Falconhand. If his life wasn't such a breakneck pace of death and destruction, it'd be easy to hate the good looking and talented young man. Damn those people who have Good Stats in everything and their lucky rolls! JK.
Pennae is my second favorite character out of the storylines as our resident Rogue has developed quite a bit since the original work. The sexy, bouncy, and sneaky Thief is one that unfortunately gets no luck in this here work while taking quite a beating. She handles it with quite a bit of aploom though. I do hope the young lady gets a reward for saving the kingdom though, she deserves it.
(Ed describes such attractive ladies, it often makes me wish we had more comic adaptations of FR comics so we could see pictures-call me a shameless fanboy)
One complaint I do have is the breakneck action of the book leaves very little time for characterization. Ed manages to interject a huge numer of great character bits but we don't get enough room for him to properly address all the things we got to learn about Shandril in the Spellfire series. The sheer volume that we learn about Cormyr justifies this change but I do sorta miss the introspection.
Oddly, my favorite part of the book is Alusair's Big Adventure because it's like a Children's Book in the middle of the regular fantasy series. The whole idea of falling down a magic wardrobe is an obvious nod, I think we can all agree even if the bit of falling into Arabel is more akin to Mos Eisley than Narnia as a wretched hive of scum and villainy (and worse, Arabels!). I am surprised that Ed took the realistic take that a Zhent soldier could beat a little girl rather than have young Alusair show her future self by gutting him like a fish.
Unsurprisingly, the Cormyr main NPCs are well portrayed with absolute perfection. The little bits were some of my favorites like the fact that Filfaeril's treatment of Azoun's lechery isn't just indulgence but she actually thinks it can be used as a tool of statecraft. That definitely shows who has the brains inside the family (though I'm still curious whether 'Queen Fee' does have her own affairs or saves them for after being widowed).
Plus, the fun treatment of Cormyr here is continuing the idea that almost everyone is trying to overthrow Azoun *ALL THE TIME*. Vangey's day planner must read "Get up, use privy, thwart plot to destroy Cormyr, breakfast, stop Zhentil Agents, lunch, remonstrate Tanalasta, kill Red Wizards, remonstrate Azoun, dinner, throw fireballs at traitorous nobles, sleep" repeat.
Manshoon makes an appearance here with the Shadowsil and he makes an excellent splash. I got a very good "Doctor Doom" vibe from the old schemer. I had, honestly, never expected her to make an appearance again due to the violent fate that she meant but her return makes the story work even better. Given Manshoon is willing to 'ride' her mind during sex with a man, it's interesting to speculate that he's bisexual. Just an interesting character quality revealed in Ed's writing.
Funniest moment in the book would definitely be when Khelben, Manshoon, and Elminster have a go at it while Vangerdahast tries to pretend he's able to sit at the Big Boys Table but they won't let him. Bravo Ed, only you could think of that.
Laspeera and Aerilee are two of my favorite supporting characters in the book and I'll have to be on the look out for more of them. Not much information is given on Aerilee in the book but she definitely made a strong impression in her short time there. I hope they both show up in the Third Book.
(I wonder if the KOMD will ever actually leave Cormyr or visit their namesake. I do love the country but I do think Ed would do wonders with familiar characters in more exotic locales)
Overall, I'm heartilly impressed by Ed Greenwood's efforts here and I am sure that I'll see similiar quality from future works. It saddens me we'll never get a Ultimate Edition of the Spellfire novels that incorporates all of the material (and probably would make them the size of Wheel of Time novels) but the length here is enough to satisfy me. I just wish they came out quicker.
;-)
8/10 |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 16 Oct 2007 19:29:48 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 01:35:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
That definitely shows who has the brains inside the family (though I'm still curious whether 'Queen Fee' does have her own affairs or saves them for after being widowed).
Ed has said that Filfaeril was faithful to her husband throughout their marriage. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 02:28:34
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How disappointing. :-)
But yeah, I find that Ed writes incredibly cute and hugable adolescent girls. First, Tanalasta was adorable with her "my feet don't reach the throne room floor" style antics with Vanghey and Alusair's adventures of eating stew (thankfully not going in the usual "lost princess" route--bravo ed) was just as neat. It's nice to see a Princess not afraid to just order people around when she's hungry and be believed!
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 19:00:02
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Er, Charles? "Spent the night with Alustriel," surely. NOT Alusair (she's thirteen at this time, and as far as I know hasn't slept with any nobles yet).
Edit: Oh, and the Shadowsil isn't making a "return." This all happens before SPELLFIRE, remember. :}
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 16 Oct 2007 19:21:30 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 19:29:22
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That was a typo, THO. One I've corrected.
As for the Shadowsil, I consider it a return in the "Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith" sense. As in, we see her in the book again.
Otherwise, I hope Ed liked the review.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2010 : 08:25:18
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*Casts Ressurrect topic*
Ok, so after several years on the shelf i finally got around to reading this.
A great read, with tons of lore, magic and mayhem. The fast-paced character driven plot works out well for me.
The scene with Manshoon, Khelben, El and Vangey is very memorable and will stick in my mind for a long time.
Florin and Pennae seems to shine brightly in this book, but i miss hearing more about Islif and the others. Hopefully we get to hear more from them in the third book. I also find myself liking Dauntless more and more.
Filfaeril is either very impressive in her statecraft, or just a weak pushover. I hope and believe she is the former. The scene where she encourages Azoun to wench around, struck me as odd.
Other rather odd scenes were the emissary from Silverymoon and her initiating an orgy in the middle of hundreds of nobles, and Pennae running around barechested flashing her boobs to all the guards and old nobles she could find.
Whatever happened to Doust by the way? He got gutted by a blade, skewered through his bowels and out his back, spraying the others with blood etc, yet we hear nothing of him after that? I can only assume he gobbled down one of the healing potions Vangey provided just in time. Maybe he was simply forgotten?
Anyway, the lore and characters stand out in this book. I found it enjoyable and i am looking forward to the next |
Edited by - Elfinblade on 22 May 2010 08:27:48 |
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Swords of Dragonfire: Chapters 24 - 29 & Epilogue
