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Agis_of_Asticles
Acolyte
Brazil
17 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2007 : 21:26:50
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Hi, I came here to show the situation of brazilian RPGers. We are passing through a huge problem. Devir is the official publisher for every D&D products, from books to miniatures and it doens´t care about us, brazilian customers.
The problem is: it publishing ONE book per year. 
What happened with the books they promised? We tried and tried sending e-mails to Devir asking for answers, but they just ignored us. In 2005, they promised us a translated Draconomicon, but so far, and we are in 2007 already, there is no sign of that book (and neither of Complete Arcane, Adventurer, and all the others).
If you look at its site [http://www.devir.com.br/rpg/dnd.php] you'll see what I'm talking about. There you can see how many books we have at our disposal, translated to our language. Thats a shame to Wizards has been represented for a publisher who don't care about the players needs.
Lecen_of_Mitran, a brazilian RPGer like me, created a topic at the Wizards forum. There you can see more of our situation [http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=12676022#post12676022]. We need all kind of suport. If you could go there and show your suport to our cause, I'll apretiate that.
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Sorry guys. Bad english, I know.
“While the wise may worship, only fools bow and wait.”
A North’s saying [FR]
Suporting the petition to our local [Brazil] publisher of Wizards [Devir] to publish more translated books. [http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG/petition.html] |
Edited by - Agis_of_Asticles on 18 Jun 2007 22:03:26
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 00:42:31
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| Wow. I sympathize with you! my first language is French and I gave up a long time ago buying anything D&D in French. I've been buying English stuff ever since I bought the 1st edition DMG (i.e. 20 years ago). What a mess that was. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 01:10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Wow. I sympathize with you! my first language is French and I gave up a long time ago buying anything D&D in French. I've been buying English stuff ever since I bought the 1st edition DMG (i.e. 20 years ago). What a mess that was.
Do like me and PDK, become good at English  |
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Agis_of_Asticles
Acolyte
Brazil
17 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 02:26:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Do like me and PDK, become good at English
But I am [in reading, at least]. But here in Brazil most people don't have access to quality english school.
The problem is not about importing books. The problem is: why should we import books when there was supposed to be an official company [Devir] translating and publishing them here in Brazil? |
Sorry guys. Bad english, I know.
“While the wise may worship, only fools bow and wait.”
A North’s saying [FR]
Suporting the petition to our local [Brazil] publisher of Wizards [Devir] to publish more translated books. [http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG/petition.html] |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 02:30:20
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| I have to say, Agis, your English is just fine. I've seen worse even from those who have it as a first language. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 19 Jun 2007 02:31:16 |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 11:26:04
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I don't know if it is comforting for you - but some translations into German aren't worth the money for the books  .
I just discovered that the situation in Southern Europe got better, namely Spain and Portugal, there was a lot of lore in the shops last year – maybe you find something on ebay from there - even if this can't be the solution for Brasil in general .
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Edited by - Matthus on 19 Jun 2007 16:07:52 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 14:57:36
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| With a company that is supposed to handle the work, I can understand your frustrations. Come to think of it, I am just wondering if there has been any Norwegian translations of any D&D products since the late 80's. What is the general situation with translations throughout the world, is it common or exceptions to have non-English products available? |
Edited by - Jorkens on 19 Jun 2007 14:59:23 |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 16:16:00
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Well the situation in Germany isn’t to bad – if you don’t want good translations every time. Sure there are some good ones – but maybe from experiences in the past I prefer the original version.
I was very frustrated with the War of Spider Queen Series – the complete German softcover version was well over half a year available before I could get my hand on book number 4, Extinction 
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 16:50:18
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| If I remember correctly (my sister worked in Brazil for 2 years), your language is Portugese...just see if you can find the Publisher in Portugal and order from there with your friends...or form an "ordering community" to save on s/h |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2007 : 00:04:32
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| Just wondering... is there a separate publisher for Portugal? Seems like that would be a good alternate source. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Agis_of_Asticles
Acolyte
Brazil
17 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2007 : 03:18:04
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What I noticed reading the posts of our portuguese fellows is that the situation whit Devir in Portugal is worst [yes, they have the rights of Wizards there too]. They have less translated books compared whit Brazil. So, import books from Portugal is not an option.
And we have the same problem mentioned for Matthus: really bad translations.
I repeat: thats a shame to Wizards has been represented for a publisher who don't care about the players. And the problems does't happening only here as I'm seen.
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Sorry guys. Bad english, I know.
“While the wise may worship, only fools bow and wait.”
A North’s saying [FR]
Suporting the petition to our local [Brazil] publisher of Wizards [Devir] to publish more translated books. [http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG/petition.html] |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2007 : 11:34:09
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Just as a side-Trek:
They translated all of DarkSun to portugese???
I just remembered where I know your name from - and I wanted to compliment on your choice of your Avatar’s name  |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2007 : 18:48:59
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Never really bothered with German translations...ever since back in the 80s a torch was translated as the battery equivalent...
And in the 3.5 version a cleric seems to be proficient with all martial weapons as well...at least in one of the first printings |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2007 : 22:45:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
... Come to think of it, I am just wondering if there has been any Norwegian translations of any D&D products since the late 80's.
Nei. Ingen siden Basic og Ekspert boka.
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Agis_of_Asticles
Acolyte
Brazil
17 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2007 : 04:41:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
Just as a side-Trek:
They translated all of DarkSun to portugese???
I just remembered where I know your name from - and I wanted to compliment on your choice of your Avatar’s name
Thanks Matthus.
And no, they never translated a single book of this setting. I played DarkSun as DM, a long time ago [9 years, I think], 2nd edition, using english material.
But here in Brazil we have a group that translate the official material of Athas.org [3.5!!!]. This guys are making a magnificent job, publishing all for free in their site [www.darksun.com.br]! They also translated the SRDs, better and faster than Devir. |
Sorry guys. Bad english, I know.
“While the wise may worship, only fools bow and wait.”
A North’s saying [FR]
Suporting the petition to our local [Brazil] publisher of Wizards [Devir] to publish more translated books. [http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG/petition.html] |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2007 : 09:50:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
... Come to think of it, I am just wondering if there has been any Norwegian translations of any D&D products since the late 80's.
Nei. Ingen siden Basic og Ekspert boka.
Those were the ones. I am still irritated that I don't own the translated versions, even though I last saw them around '99, 00. What about Sweden, Finland and Denmark, how is it with translations in these countries?
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2007 : 10:23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Agis_of_Asticles
And no, they never translated a single book of this setting. I played DarkSun as DM, a long time ago [9 years, I think], 2nd edition, using english material.
But here in Brazil we have a group that translate the official material of Athas.org [3.5!!!]. This guys are making a magnificent job, publishing all for free in their site [www.darksun.com.br]! They also translated the SRDs, better and faster than Devir.
Even if this is a Realms Forum I fondly remember my time in the blistering waste - I DMed for 3 years.
The work on Dark Sun looks splendid to me - even if my portugese is a little bit rusty (not to say nonexist ) So there seems to be enough guys who could support Devir - maybe you should ask for "under-licences" for doing the job yourselfs .
Another question - anybody knows how many languages the offical material was translated in? |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2007 : 17:39:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
... Come to think of it, I am just wondering if there has been any Norwegian translations of any D&D products since the late 80's.
Nei. Ingen siden Basic og Ekspert boka.
Those were the ones. I am still irritated that I don't own the translated versions, even though I last saw them around '99, 00. What about Sweden, Finland and Denmark, how is it with translations in these countries?
Closest thing I've seen to D&D-stuff in Swedish would be a few Dragonlance-novels. In fact, I bet that quite a few Swedes with little or no interest in the RPG-scene would spell out D&D as Drakar & Demoner rather than Dungeons & Dragons. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Agis_of_Asticles
Acolyte
Brazil
17 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2007 : 03:48:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
Even if this is a Realms Forum I fondly remember my time in the blistering waste - I DMed for 3 years.
The work on Dark Sun looks splendid to me - even if my portugese is a little bit rusty (not to say nonexist ) So there seems to be enough guys who could support Devir - maybe you should ask for "under-licences" for doing the job yourselfs .
Another question - anybody knows how many languages the offical material was translated in?
Matthus, I can tell what I know [about translations]. Devir translate books to Latin America [in spanish], Brazil, Portugal and Spain. They do a good job only with spanish translations and releases.
And about "under-licences", we have a few people translating some material of 2nd edition FR, in good will. This are not ilegal, since WotC placed then to free download on their site. The guys realesed this translations like short-texts, including the "night parade" and the "Shadevari and Shadovar". They are translating full books too, like "Dragon's Cult" and "Fall of MithDrannor". They do articles too, about the history of Faerûn, some events and NPCs. And this are saving RPGers like me, that not have a perfect english to read novels.
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Sorry guys. Bad english, I know.
“While the wise may worship, only fools bow and wait.”
A North’s saying [FR]
Suporting the petition to our local [Brazil] publisher of Wizards [Devir] to publish more translated books. [http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG/petition.html] |
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Agis_of_Asticles
Acolyte
Brazil
17 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2007 : 04:02:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Closest thing I've seen to D&D-stuff in Swedish would be a few Dragonlance-novels. In fact, I bet that quite a few Swedes with little or no interest in the RPG-scene would spell out D&D as Drakar & Demoner rather than Dungeons & Dragons.
Thats another huge problem, Kajehase: the lack of translated novels. Imagine how hard and slow is to read a novel when your english isn't so well. That's my problem and of most of brazilian RPGers.
We only have the Icewind Dale Trilogy translated. I could die to see novels like "Avatar Series", "Dark Elf Trilogy" and many others in portuguese. But I think that's only to dream about... |
Sorry guys. Bad english, I know.
“While the wise may worship, only fools bow and wait.”
A North’s saying [FR]
Suporting the petition to our local [Brazil] publisher of Wizards [Devir] to publish more translated books. [http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG/petition.html] |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2007 : 07:31:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Closest thing I've seen to D&D-stuff in Swedish would be a few Dragonlance-novels. In fact, I bet that quite a few Swedes with little or no interest in the RPG-scene would spell out D&D as Drakar & Demoner rather than Dungeons & Dragons.
Come to think of it they did translate the two first Dragonlance trilogies sometime in the late 90's. Never read them though so I can say nothing about the quality. Drakar och Demoner did in fact get a translation into Norwegian, but only of the "basic" set, not of the Expert, Gigant, or the supplement. The early editions of DoD is still my system of choice, even for use in the Realms. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 23:53:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
With a company that is supposed to handle the work, I can understand your frustrations. Come to think of it, I am just wondering if there has been any Norwegian translations of any D&D products since the late 80's. What is the general situation with translations throughout the world, is it common or exceptions to have non-English products available?
It's been pretty much the same here in Finland, too. The original D&D boxed sets (Basic, Expert and Master rules) and some modules were translated to finnish, but nothing else since the early 90's. Come to think of it, I haven't really seen too many finnish RPGs published during these years either. The finnish translations of Ed's, Elaine's and Bob's (Salvatore) novels have been wildly popular, but I guess we prefer our RPG rulebooks and accessories in english? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Agis_of_Asticles
Acolyte
Brazil
17 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 03:34:19
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Devir answered our email informing about our petition for realese more RPG books [after 500 signatures]. And they were patetic, blaming the piracy and brazilian bad market.
The guy who answered acted like the thing was personal, saying "you wouldn't do that without have knowledge about the process"... I don't coment...
He also said they ever ask about what the players want. The proof of this is the realising of "Arcana Evolved", when the players wait for the complete series, the settings acessories, the novels, and others... I don't coment this too...
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Sorry guys. Bad english, I know.
“While the wise may worship, only fools bow and wait.”
A North’s saying [FR]
Suporting the petition to our local [Brazil] publisher of Wizards [Devir] to publish more translated books. [http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG/petition.html] |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2007 : 05:36:11
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Yes, yes, the old problem of Devir. It's a pity for us, here in Brazil, that the D&D and specially, FR books, are in the hands of that company (that mantains a great monopoly here, including the rights of translation of Shadowrun, World of Darkness, Gurps, D&D, and many others). This result in a very thin volume of books in our hands.
I have a good grip of english, but I am the only one in my group...
:( |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 03:55:47
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Just to shed a bit of light on the subject. As far as I know, Devir Brasil, Devir Portugal and Devir Spain are NOT owned by the same persons. What they share is an agreement to launch RPG products together (and perhaps other stuff too). Also, RPG is far from bringing them solid revenue. Comics has been the primary line of business in all three countries for some time now. That said I won't comment on the European couterparts of Devir Brasil.
We know that publishers are business oriented, and they will not invest time and money in something they do not foresee as a sales hit. In Brazil, and in this particular case, this rule applies raised to the third power. First you've got the predicted base revenue/cost of the product, including specialized translators (remember the problems Tolkien faced with LotR?), quality printing and the expected small market; then you add the heavy local taxation that has the tendency to drive people out of business; finally you throw in rights and royalties you'll have to pay in US dollars. The final cost will be, most probably, prohibitive.
Pardon me, fellows, I'm not in no way defending Devir. On the contrary. I've been where they are before (well, almost there) and I know for certain what has to be done to have a good RPG product. What I explained above is the obvious for any Brazilian entrepreneur.
There are, however, two points to be considered in this particular case:
1st. Devir. Most solid RPG businesses around the world began with RPG gamers. TSR, for one, is the golden proof of that. But to keep oneself in business even gamers start making sacrifices. That's the point where the original idea stops being something from gamers for gamers and becomes a business like any other. One must be really true to his or her ideals and not sacrifice the game. Regrettably, Devir has long ago crossed that line (certainly more than a decade ago). But they still hold their trophies (the licenses) with grinding teeth. Devir has no intention of spending any great effort on the RPG business. It's just not profitable enough.
2nd. WotC-Hasbro. This is the typical North-American company (no prejudice intended). Profit oriented, period. What they see in Brazil, from their high perch atop the millions of dollars they make every year with card and miniature products, is what they've seen in the US a long time ago. Quoting Peter Adkison in 1995, when he announced WotC was dropping their entire roleplaying line:
quote:
We are pretty much saying good bye to the roleplaying genre, at least for now. This is very hard for us, particularly for me specifically. I founded Wizards of the Coast with the dream of building a great roleplaying game company that would discover the RPG that would break out of the RPG industry and bring more gamers to roleplaying. The company's first book was The Primal Order, a book that I authored and am immensely proud of. But I have come to the conclusion that if anyone is going to do something great and innovative with RPGs, it'll probably be someone else. I bow from the field.
(...)Note that I do not look at this as a disservice to RPGs. I think we WERE doing a disservice to RPGs by not giving them adequate support. We simply do not seem to be able to do a great job in the RPG business. We have never admit[t]ed this before, but we have lost money on every single RPG product we've published, from The Primal Order and Talislanta all the way up until now with Ars Magica and Everway. But no matter how much you love an industry, if you can't make money at it eventually you have to walk away from it and let others carry the torch.
It couldn't be put more plainly than that. The difference to our Brazilian counterpart is that they don't make money but they don't let go of the bone. I fail to believe the WotC-Hasbro are blind to this fact. Something is still amiss.
Shannon Appelcline in an article at RPGnet, once quoted Ryan Dancey of WotC, who said that TSR's main problem was simply that they didn't listen to their customers. No surveys were done and customer's feedback was something inimaginable. They published material into a void, and hoped that it was what players really wanted. Certainly the actual WotC-Hasbro (and Devir, for that matter) is reading our forums. But the questions is: are they really considering of value anything we say, our worthy little points of view?
In December of 2000, Peter Adkison anounced he was leaving WocT-Hasbro. His reasons for doing so were and are important.quote:
As of January 1st 2001 I will no longer be an employee of Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro. No, I'm not getting fired or layed off. I'm leaving voluntarily. I'm sure many of you will want to know why. Well, I don't think that the core of my reasoning is any more complicated than this. When you start a company and run it as CEO for many years you think of it as your own. Yes there are other shareholders and a board of directors you answer to, but your vote is always the biggest vote. Then you sell the company and you go along trying to make the best of the situation, telling yourself that you still have the same responsibilities as before, plus a vote in something even bigger. That works for awhile until something happens that you object to and in spite of your best efforts you find yourself powerless to stop it. At that point you are forced to accept the fact that the company is no longer yours, that you no longer carry the biggest vote, and that can be difficult to take. I'm not naive. I always knew intellectually this was the case, but to think you understand something and then actually experience it are two different things.
The reason seems quite clear. Hasbro was tweeking WotC into a leaner, as profitable a company as it would be possible. Since that time, we all know WotC-Hasbro has sold, licensed or altogether left many aspects of the RPG industry, like the magazines Dragon and Dungeon, Origins and GenCon conventions, computer games, shuting down stores, etc.
Now, how can they ever consider making good RPG products when only one end of the bargain is important? In light of these facts I'd say WotC-Hasbro and Devir cannot think of producing anything of real value to us, old "hard"core players. Such products will most certainly be research demanding and quality expensive, ingredients they cannot "afford".
My solution for them is only one: team up with real gamers. Provide them the little support they'll need to work and let them create the world from gamers for gamers. Even without any support whatsoever we have a few superb examples of that already in effect: the project "The Burnt World of Athas" and, of course, "Candlekeep" with its many compendiums. Fool is the one who doesn't see the possibilities of such a partnership.
For Devir, hah, it's not even a choice. It should be mandatory.
I apologize for such a long post, but I got carried away. |
Edited by - Thauglor on 10 Sep 2007 04:00:14 |
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 04:12:55
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I'm in a rebel mood now so I'll ask: who the heck decides what IS canon and what is not? If the answer to that is EG and RAS, then why do we need anyone else. Let them write the guidelines for the Realms following the roll of the years and we, the thousands and thousands of players, will write the small tidbits of adventures and canon lore. I bet that in a few years we would have amassed a lot more "real" Realms history than they ever thought possible. And I wouldn't mind them publishing my work. It would be charge free. 
Oh! Damned intelectual property rights. |
Edited by - Thauglor on 10 Sep 2007 04:14:12 |
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D&D and... Brazil. Yeah, that´s right...
