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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
 Posted - 17 May 2007 : 23:04:39
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The possibility exists that my players may find a (2nd edition) Ring of Truth when they fight a (2nd edition) Realms NPC. What would the gold piece value of such a ring be if it were sold for cash in the 3rd edition Realms and the proceeds divvied up as loot?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2007 : 05:04:24
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I might need to think about this abit.
quote:
Ring of Truth: There is little doubt that wearing a ring of truth is a mixed blessing. The wearer can detect any lie told to him, but he is unable to tell any sort of falsehood himself. If the wearer tries to tell a lie, he finds himself speaking the literal truth instead. On the plus side, the wearer is able to discern the last lie told by another—in fact, the power of the ring causes the voice of the liar to rise to a falsetto.
If the wearer of the ring encounters magic that enables falsehoods to be spoken without detection (such as an undetectable lie spell or a philter of glibness), no lie is detected. However, the ring wearer will find himself unable to hear the voice of the person so influenced, whether or not he is trying to listen. This, of course, reveals the lie indirectly.
In some ways it is a cursed ring, very few are honest all the time. A temple however might pay well for such an item as might a secular court. The vaule of truth is clearly uncertain, so perhaps pricing by other methords is indicated.
I would say that the price would be as high as 15,000 if a community could afford it. Might even be higher. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2007 : 13:22:41
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well ... lets see ... Ring of Truth is proberly made by Forge ring and Zone of Truth that is continuous
spell level(2)*caster level(3)*2000*2 = 24000g
could be argued that since it (apperantly) doesn't grant a will save then the price should be buffed with another *2 or maybe even *4 ... personnally though i would say *2 so
48000g |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2007 : 21:50:57
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| Then divide that price in half for what the PCs can actually get for it. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2007 : 23:51:52
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It is a 1,000 x.p. item in AD&D, and the cash value of rings of that magnitude was 5,000 gp in 1st edition. That would be rings of Feather Fall, Warmth, Water Walking, and such like. Would it be prudent to just average out what the 1,000 xp rings currently cost, and assign that value to a Ring of Truth?
By the way, I think that there's more than Zone of Truth to its composition. It affects how one perceives people with alignment detection foilers, too. The biggest problem, of course, is that the wearer cannot lie! (Which could be an advantage if a City Watch officer just slipped it on the finger of someone who's being interrogated -- it's much quicker and less messy than the usual methods of torture.)
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 00:19:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
It is a 1,000 x.p. item in AD&D, and the cash value of rings of that magnitude was 5,000 gp in 1st edition. That would be rings of Feather Fall, Warmth, Water Walking, and such like. Would it be prudent to just average out what the 1,000 xp rings currently cost, and assign that value to a Ring of Truth?
By the way, I think that there's more than Zone of Truth to its composition. It affects how one perceives people with alignment detection foilers, too. The biggest problem, of course, is that the wearer cannot lie! (Which could be an advantage if a City Watch officer just slipped it on the finger of someone who's being interrogated -- it's much quicker and less messy than the usual methods of torture.)
There is a whole system in d20 that allows you to price magical items. I advise that you use that, rather than anything related to 2nd edition prices. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
Edited by - Wenin on 19 May 2007 00:20:13 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 01:25:32
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Well Feather Fall is a level one spell, but the ring costs only 2,200g. A level two spell in a ring could very well be 8 times the cost. The d20 pricing system has flaws and clearly some defined items do not match the fomular.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 19 May 2007 01:26:19 |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 07:21:22
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| there is no place that say that zone of truth don't effect the 'caster' so no reason to fit more spells into the ring ... if anything then it should be detect lies, which otherwise is covered at all bases by the zone of truth. |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 12:03:42
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Ok, so you're looking for the price quite simply so the player's can sell it. As written in 2nd edition, this is a very powerful item, which is why it didn't make it to 3rd edition. However, you can still have the same basic premise, with a few more drawbacks, and therefore it becomes highly questionable if someone wants to buy the item.
First comes the question of how do you convert it. In previous editions, the person had no ability to resist the items effect, so it could be used as stated above (here, put this ring on, etc...). I think you'd have to redesign the ring for third edition. For instance, define that the "you can't lie" aspect of it is a compulsion effect with some will save DC, and make the person aware that the ring doesn't want them to lie. If the person does lie, then have the ring never work for them again (it could still work against them if someone else were to wear it). In fact, I like the idea that the ring is intelligent and "refuses" to work for the character ever again if he lies, until he manages to coerce the ring into working for it again by "atoning" (and of course, it should have a compulsion effect with a will save DC to cause the character to make his voice go up when he does lie... even if its no longer detecting other people's lies, it should "out" its own wearer). Also, the ring might be cursed and therefore require a remove curse in order to take it off. It might also tie itself to the character's life force, such that the character permanently lose 1d4 hit points or maybe a point of wisdom or charisma if he ever removes it (they return if he puts it back on). Note, if you choose the latter, I'd highly recommend that the bond be something that comes at the request of the intelligent ring (i.e. I offer you this, but the price is that you must never lie or face these consequences....)).
With these kinds of things in place, the ring becomes what it was meant to be, an item worn by a player who will try not to lie. Such a character is forced to take on a noble aspect that will be recognized by those around them (like Kane from the monastery of the yellow rose). The restrictions become something that will definitely drive the price down (because who wants to buy it). If you go with the intelligent item piece, you'd want to figure out that part first, along with any other abilities that might be entailed with it. As alignment goes, I would definitely see this being a LN ring. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2007 : 19:47:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
It is a 1,000 x.p. item in AD&D, and the cash value of rings of that magnitude was 5,000 gp in 1st edition. ...
There is a whole system in d20 that allows you to price magical items. I advise that you use that, rather than anything related to 2nd edition prices.
I now have the Magic Encyclopedia, which lists all magical items for D&D up to its publication, including items from Dragon and Polyhedron. As I suspected, the Hensons list it at 5,000 gp, but I think that you're right and that I should try to calculate its cost under 3rd edition rules. The difficulty is that it does many things for which there are no 3rd edition spell equivalents. *sigh* At least 5000 gp gives me a starting point from which to work.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Mortagon
Acolyte
Norway
33 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2007 : 16:53:30
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I would just have it emit a continous zone of truth and allow a will save as normal for that spell. In such a case the ring would have the following profile according to the magical item creation system found in the dmg and magic item compendium (Correct me if I'm wrong):
Ring of truth
Price (Item level): 24.000 (15th)
Body slot: Ring
Caster level: 3rd
Aura: Faint enchantment (Mind-affecting, compulsion)(DC 17)
Activation: -
Weight: -
This ring continuosly emits a zone of truth in a 20 foot radius around the wearer. Anyone trying to speak a lie within this area must make a will save DC 13 or their voice will rise to a high falsetto revealing the fact that they were lying. While wearing this ring the wearer cannot lie. |
Edited by - Mortagon on 30 Jun 2007 16:55:31 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2007 : 17:40:46
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quote:
If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.
If ring is based on Zone of truth, multiply price by 2 due to the fact Zone of Truth is 1 minute/level.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2007 : 17:56:39
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There's no formula to calculate how much people desire things. Just imagine you're someone who might want a ring of truth and think how much you'd pay for it, in comparison to other expensive objects, and bearing in mind the rarity of the item. Since powerful magic is rarely offered for sale, the individual circumstances would weigh as heavily as any generalized factors.quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I think you'd have to redesign the ring for third edition.
Only in as far as you want your campaign to reflect 3E design principles. |
Edited by - Faraer on 30 Jun 2007 17:57:22 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2007 : 18:49:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
There's no formula to calculate how much people desire things. Just imagine you're someone who might want a ring of truth and think how much you'd pay for it, in comparison to other expensive objects, and bearing in mind the rarity of the item. Since powerful magic is rarely offered for sale, the individual circumstances would weigh as heavily as any generalized factors.quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I think you'd have to redesign the ring for third edition.
Only in as far as you want your campaign to reflect 3E design principles.
Excellent points, Faraer. The Ring would be highly valued by several fairly strong characters, one very rich, one in possession, one very influential (and persuasive), and one a very powerful wizard.
I thank you all for your input on this. I think that what I may allow to happen is for the rich one to buy it and the wizard to make a Ring of Zone of Truth metamagically altered to exclude the wearer (and, to make it a devious device, the ability to allow the wearer to cast charm person!).   
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Cash value of a Ring of Truth
