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Kalevala
Acolyte
43 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 23:53:38
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Hi,
just wondering something while reading Magic of Faerűn. The book says:
1) Divine casters have no skill in using the Weave
2) Dead Magic zones are areas where the Weave is absent (but raw magic is not, since Shadow Weave users can cast spells normally)
Does this mean that divine casters use the Weave but differently from how arcane caster do, or does it mean that they don't use the Weave at all and thus shouldn't be affected by Dead Magic?
I know that the Dead Magic text says magic simply doesn't function there (incl. magic items), but it doesn't explicitly state that also divine magic is affected either. Just want to be sure 
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 00:23:17
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Since divine magic is still channeled through the Weave, even though it comes from deities, dead magic zones would nullify the magic. This is also why, in the section titled Mystra's Refusal, Mystra can deny divine magic to clergy but it is more draining and she has to deny it to every single clergy member. If divine magic didn't filter through the Weave, she wouldn't be able to do that. Page 54 of the FRCS further clarifies this.
Of course, this does not influence the spells that come from the Shadow Weave. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Apr 2007 00:30:59 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 00:27:25
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Divine casters aren't directly accessing the Weave. They draw their power from their deity, who draws it from the Weave. So divine casters are still affected by dead magic areas.
From page 8 of the old FRA, which intro'ed dead magic areas to the Realms:
quote:
No magic can be cast or activated within a magic-dead area. Spells cast by a character within a magic-dead area are lost, as are charges from wands, rings, or other devices. Spells which are cast from outside a magic-dead area into a magic-dead area do not function and those which have areas of effect which occupy both live and dead magic areas have no effect within the magic-dead area.
The restriction applies to wizard spells, priest spells, and spell-like monsters' abilities. A beholder who finds himself inside a dead magic area loses the spell-like abilities of his eyestalks, for example. Gods and other extra-planar powers lose their magical abilities as well, and no one, neither man nor god, can teleport, gate, or otherwise magically move or escape from a dead magic area.
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Apr 2007 00:29:15 |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 02:40:04
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In Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave (which I'll be running soon, check the Jeweled Edge adventure log), they have a number of creatures that siphon power off of Weave users (characters lose prepared spells from being around them). Perhaps I read it wrong, but the inference is that it does not affect divine casters. Also, in other sections (I won't be giving out any more spoillers) the module clearly delineates between Weave Users and Divine Casters. I find it non-sensical myself and will be declaring that all non-shadow weave users that cast any form of magic are by default Weave users.
Do I stand justified by the Realms Canon? |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 05:45:12
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
Do I stand justified by the Realms Canon?
Indeed. I know of no reference that says divine casters are unaffected by dead magic areas. I know of many references that say they are. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kalevala
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 15:31:05
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Alright, thanks for the clarifications!
On another note, are there any known ("canon") Dead Magic areas, that would be good to be aware of? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 16:49:59
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| Myth Drannor has/had a few and the Helmlands in northern Cormyr has/had a few. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12094 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 20:19:01
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| The one outside Tantras where Bane and Torm fought |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 00:34:44
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| I remember mention of one in a city; it was distinctive because it was the size and shape of a building that was destroyed during the Godswar. It was in the FRA... Unfortunately, I can't look it up right now -- the hardcopy is in my apartment, 400 miles away, and I didn't bring any copies of the pdfs with me. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 00:42:12
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| There is the prison in Sembia, the Hole of Yhaunn, which is a big dead magic area underground that Sembia has used as a prison since the Time of Troubles, since it hinders magical escape and helps to hold spellcasters as well. (See the novel Shadowbred for details). |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 14:42:20
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| And there's the dungeon of the palace in Zazesspur (see War in Tethyr), which was built with stones from a dead-magic zone - which apparently is one way of moving said zone around. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 15:52:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
And there's the dungeon of the palace in Zazesspur (see War in Tethyr), which was built with stones from a dead-magic zone - which apparently is one way of moving said zone around.
Personally, I'd not expect that to work. The presence or absence of something in an area shouldn't become part of an object in that area. It's like expecting a rock to stay wet forever just because you pulled it out of the Sea of Fallen Stars... Further, I don't know of any canon references to something like that working -- otherwise, you could do things like make weapons that will never be affected by magic, simply by leaving them in a dead magic area for a while. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kalevala
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2007 : 16:42:14
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| Any in Waterdeep? |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2007 : 09:18:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
And there's the dungeon of the palace in Zazesspur (see War in Tethyr), which was built with stones from a dead-magic zone - which apparently is one way of moving said zone around.
Personally, I'd not expect that to work. The presence or absence of something in an area shouldn't become part of an object in that area. It's like expecting a rock to stay wet forever just because you pulled it out of the Sea of Fallen Stars... Further, I don't know of any canon references to something like that working -- otherwise, you could do things like make weapons that will never be affected by magic, simply by leaving them in a dead magic area for a while.
*shrug* It's how I interpreted the explanation in War in Tethyr - this is of course also the novel in which the characters know their respective alignments and talk about them... |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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SteelGandalf
Acolyte
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2014 : 06:41:47
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| How do you interpret the unwinding's effect on divine casters, then, in Shadowdale:The Scouring of the Land? Particularly for each stage of the unwinding ritual (each zone)? |
"Say nice doggie, but keep looking for a rock..."
~Chiun |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2014 : 23:23:10
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Just interjecting a comment:
In AD&D2E, one of the granted powers to Specialty Priests of Mystra was the ability to cast spells normally in dead-magic and wild-magic zones. This assumes divine (priest) spells, although I imagine multi-/dual-classed arcane (wizard) spellcasting would be similarly unimpeded.
Such priests of Mystra were also ideologically persuaded to repair the Weave (destroy these “unnatural“ magic zones) through means of Wishes and special (divine?) rituals. On the face of it this isn‘t advantageous - I mean, destroy the unmagical properties of an area which screws up everyone else outside of your religion? - but, hey, you can‘t pick and choose your deity‘s philosophy and commandments. |
[/Ayrik] |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 07:45:34
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The specialty priests of Mystra can be linked to the Weave themselves, rather than limited to "extend a hand and scoop what's already right here" use like everyone else.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
otherwise, you could do things like make weapons that will never be affected by magic, simply by leaving them in a dead magic area for a while.
Not by "leaving", of course - if they are changed one way this easily, they'll simply change another way upon exit, so it's a moot point. Being present when it's formed is another matter. Dead-magic weapons are mentioned in The Floodgate. These things apparently are expensive. And there are obvious drawbacks. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1883 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 17:15:54
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Ayrik: Certain of Mystra's clergy (Dweomerkeepers) and other followers (Chosen, to be rather precise) are also able to use arcane/divine magic in dead and wild zones in 3e as well. I assume this applies to Azuth's folks as well.
I don't care for the 'infusion' of anti/wild magic on items being brought out of such a zone myself. If it's my homebrew I would just ignore such novel writings. I guess what it's saying is that such items were permanently altered by the zone when it came into being. I can see that as a possibility but I just don't care for it. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1602 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 18:11:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Just interjecting a comment:
In AD&D2E, one of the granted powers to Specialty Priests of Mystra was the ability to cast spells normally in dead-magic and wild-magic zones. This assumes divine (priest) spells, although I imagine multi-/dual-classed arcane (wizard) spellcasting would be similarly unimpeded.
I think it would be up to Mystra to concede or not wizard spells to multiclass specialty priests (I think it's a special ability she grants to them), and I'm pretty sure it would not work for dual class ones which abandoned their priestly classes to be wizards. For those who were wizards and became priests, I'd think once again Mystra would control this.
But I'm not sure that dweomerkeepers can multiclass. Nothing is said in Faiths & Avatars, but I'd assume this combination is not allowed. As for dual class humans, the character would have to have two exceptional scores (17+) in INT and WIS, so they would be rare indeed.
EDIT: As I guessed, it is specifically stated when a deity allows multiclass specialty priests, in F&A, like in the Shaundakul's windwalkers entry and in the Mielikki's druid and druid/ranger sections. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 14 Feb 2014 18:27:15 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 23:14:16
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I begin to wonder if there might also be “dead-shadow“ and even “wild-shadow“ zones, Shadow Weave analogues of Weave phenomena.
I also wonder how artifacts fare within dead-magic zones. Perhaps they cannot be located/scried by any magical means, not even by any deities associated with them? And woe to the poor adventuring fool who locates Vecna‘s Toenail in a wild-magic zone. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 23:31:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I begin to wonder if there might also be “dead-shadow“ and even “wild-shadow“ zones, Shadow Weave analogues of Weave phenomena.
I also wonder how artifacts fare within dead-magic zones. Perhaps they cannot be located/scried by any magical means, not even by any deities associated with them? And woe to the poor adventuring fool who locates Vecna‘s Toenail in a wild-magic zone.
I don't recall which book it was; perhaps it was the 2E Book of Artifacts... But there was a book that explicitly stated "artifacts are an excuse for DMs to break the rules." I, personally, would have artifacts function pretty much normally in either dead magic or wild magic areas... Maybe a chance of a wild magic effect in either, but no more than at 25% chance. |
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Divine Spells in Dead Magic Zones
