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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 01:18:57
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I think the only thing we can be certain of at this point, is that Lolth is changing. What effects these changes will have on the Drow, the Underdark, the surface Realms, and both the Dark Seldarine and Tel'Seldarine, probably won't be revealed until well after the series has concluded, and the opportunity for follow-up novels arrives...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 01:57:09
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Well then, I eagerly await to see what plots unfold. I for one, would hope Vhaeraun will use the opportunity to kill Lolth (Damn Selvetarm, I can't believe he would atack his father to protect his grandmother... though it is expected... ). Ah well, only time, and deity evolution, will tell.... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 02:33:31
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| I think what Lolth is doing is a sort of survival of the fittest, a rebirth for herself. In the end she will come out stronger. And im sorry to say Shadowlord that I think she will put Vhaeraun and all the other drow gods and goddesses in their place just to show them that they shouldn't move in on her territory. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 03:45:29
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In a way Cherrn, I'm hoping that what you have just said is not the case. I see the change and transformation that Lolth is ungoing as something more than just a physical one. I see it as affecting not only her general attitudes and personality, but also her outlook on the world of the Realms, and the power at her command - almost a paradigm shift away from her more traditional focus, and on to something greater.
Maybe though, that's a little too drastic a change...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:18:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Maybe though, that's a little too drastic a change...
Well, I hope there is some significant change. My biggest fear, and I've said this since the series started, is that by series' end, all WOTC will have done is hit the reset button: Lolth will be just a little bit strong or a little bit weaker, but nothing else is that different. The more I get into the series, the more I can't see that happening, but I'm still anxious a bit. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:25:23
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That's exactly why I mentioned a change of focus for Lolth...To have the Spider Queen simply rise or fall a level in power will, to me, would make the whole series of WotSQ less worthwhile...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:46:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That's exactly why I mentioned a change of focus for Lolth...To have the Spider Queen simply rise or fall a level in power will, to me, would make the whole series of WotSQ less worthwhile...
WOTC has really done well with this series so far. Thus, I'm going to cling to the belief that they wouldn't ruin a wonderful series that way. Vhaeraun you listening? Eilistraee? Is this microphone on? Testing...one...two? |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 08:43:34
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That's exactly why I mentioned a change of focus for Lolth...To have the Spider Queen simply rise or fall a level in power will, to me, would make the whole series of WotSQ less worthwhile...
WOTC has really done well with this series so far. Thus, I'm going to cling to the belief that they wouldn't ruin a wonderful series that way. Vhaeraun you listening? Eilistraee? Is this microphone on? Testing...one...two?
hehehehe 
Well WotSQ is my all-time favorite FR series. Its fantastic! And ive never really been that big a drow fan (I always felt they were over-exposed due to the old days of TSR, but thats another issue).
The last book of any novel must be so difficult as they tend to build up too suddenly and get over-powerful in some cases. However, I have all faith in Paul Kemp, hes an amazing author and his novels to date have kept me so gripped!
But I DO have a concern as to where Hallistra is going  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 16:26:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
But I DO have a concern as to where Hallistra is going
I have a fear either she or the character she was with throughout much of the last novel, is headed for an early grave. |
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RevJest
Learned Scribe
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 20:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Another theory is that she might try to get back into the elven pantheon and take over, killing Corellan and become the leader of both the drow and elven pantheon.
It's difficult for me to imagine Loth 'taking over' the Seldarine. It's hard to rule over a group of people who would probably all die in battle with you rather than submitting to your will. |
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 00:30:12
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Agreed...Oh, and welcome to Candlekeep simontrinity...
I think the end result of Lolth ruling over the Seldarine would not only be far too drastic a change for the core aspects of the Realms, but also too vast in scope to be handled by such a centralised series as WotSQ. Most of the focus of these novels is in the Underdark, I really can't see the writers suddenly making the jump to Cynosure just to illustrate Lolth's mad grab for ultimate power...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 00:42:29
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| Well, that "theory" was only something I read on the internet from another message board. Lol. Kinda surprised to see such a large reaction from a small comment... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 01:21:40
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Hmmm...I suppose...
But, the one thing you can be sure about here at Candlekeep DDH_101, is that every scribe here will have a differing opinion on just about everything...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 04:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Well, that "theory" was only something I read on the internet from another message board. Lol. Kinda surprised to see such a large reaction from a small comment...
Well let that be a lesson for you! Never dare even offer a theory on challenging The Seldarine again! 
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 15:09:02
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I fear that they will hit the reset button so to speak. When it ends we are back to square 1 with a few alterations, more power to Lolth and less to the other drow gods. I think Wizards are awfully scared of doing anything remotely worldchanging in the Realms after how the ToT was recieved by everyone (I liked it though). Just look at the Return of the Archwizards series, nothing really realmshaking happened, in end Tilverton was gone, Evereska was ruined, and the Shades had returned, although reduced significantly in power to pose less of a threat to Faerun as a whole.
I hope they prove me wrong though :) |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Veszaun Auvryath
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 05:28:36
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Me, I have my theories too, but mostly I just want to rant about them not giving Vhaeraun proper credit in the series. That snot-nosed rugrat of his (aka Selvetarm) shouldn't have been able to beat him, as they implied by that brief glimpse in the latest novel. At least not by 2E game stats as per Demihuman Deities, Vhaeraun would rip him apart. Sure, it might have ended the series abruptly if Vhaeraun got his way , but still, they could have simply had neither of them show up yet and imply they were still battling. Feasible enough that gods could go on battling for weeks or months at a time if they have nothing better to do
Okay, enough babble on that for now, had to get that out there somewhere though |
"You scoff at the notion of a drow Bladesinger? My, my. How very foolish of you to believe that the Ilythiiri did not possess the secrets of the Bladesong in ages long past. A select few of us have carried a twisted rendition of the 'Song down through the generations. Now, bearing that in mind, will you wipe that ridiculous look of incredulity from your face, or must the keen edge of my blade do it for you?"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 05:44:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Veszaun Auvryath
Okay, enough babble on that for now, had to get that out there somewhere though
You go Veszaun as you are more than dead on accurate! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2004 : 06:56:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Veszaun Auvryath
At least not by 2E game stats as per Demihuman Deities, Vhaeraun would rip him apart.
While that certainly is true, we have to assume that 3e game stats would instead apply, and that changes the playing field a little...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 02:21:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Veszaun Auvryath
Me, I have my theories too, but mostly I just want to rant about them not giving Vhaeraun proper credit in the series. That snot-nosed rugrat of his (aka Selvetarm) shouldn't have been able to beat him, as they implied by that brief glimpse in the latest novel. At least not by 2E game stats as per Demihuman Deities, Vhaeraun would rip him apart. Sure, it might have ended the series abruptly if Vhaeraun got his way , but still, they could have simply had neither of them show up yet and imply they were still battling. Feasible enough that gods could go on battling for weeks or months at a time if they have nothing better to do
Okay, enough babble on that for now, had to get that out there somewhere though
See Sage, I'm not the only lunatic who thinks Vhaeraun is ultimately superior to all other drow gods! Nay, all other gods period! |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Solaufein
Acolyte
10 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 23:02:41
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Thanks to Wotc ! Many answers are brought in the "Player's Guide to Faerun" Book !
First, it is said that Lolth felt suddenly silent the 28th of Elesias, 1372 CV. And second...
Warning ! Spoiler on the "War of the Spider Queen" Series !
Don't read the following lines if you don't want to know what will happen next in the Series ...
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Lolth, in his home plane seems to have entered in a strange comatose state. A powerful menzoberranzanyr delegation arrived in the Demonweb Pits, Lolth's home plane, to invistigate what's going on with the Spider Queen. They found the apparently comatose goddess. And there, Vhaeraunites in the delegation invoked their god, Vhaeraun. He injured her terribly. Then Selvetarm appeared, to defend his queen and fought Vhaeraun. During the battle, the two gods plummeted from the webs into the emptiness below... What effects, if any, this event may have on worshipers of either god remains unknown...
That's all... For the moment |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 23:41:54
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| Cursed cliffhanger Solaufein! You are making me go buy the next couple of books in hardcover! |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 02:48:24
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| Player Guide to Faerun is out??? Hurries to his local bookstore... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 03:40:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Solaufein
Thanks to Wotc ! Many answers are brought in the "Player's Guide to Faerun" Book !
First, it is said that Lolth felt suddenly silent the 28th of Elesias, 1372 CV. And second...
Warning ! Spoiler on the "War of the Spider Queen" Series !
Don't read the following lines if you don't want to know what will happen next in the Series ...
...
...
...
...
Lolth, in his home plane seems to have entered in a strange comatose state....And there, Vhaeraunites in the delegation invoked their god, Vhaeraun. He injured her terribly...
First off, big thank you for obviously by this post letting me know the Guide has an updated timeline. Also nice to hear Vhaeraun really injured the Spider Queen. Hopefully, it will be enough to make her chances of becoming more powerful dwindle or disappear. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 14:33:18
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| Vhaeraun will be alright, continue to bide his time, and kill the Spider Queen when the time is right! I hope Selvetarm falls down onto a stalagmite.... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 15:48:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
However, it now appears we all have something else to ponder. What will become of Selvetarm and Vhaeraun...?
Spoilers for Extinction
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Well, I think we at least get some hint that both are alive, if not feeling chipper. Selvetarm is shown at one point badly wounded, but again near the Spider Queen's home and guarding like a typical lackey.
Now, daddy, is another matter. However, didn't Ryld encounter a Vhaeraun force that included a cleric. I think if Vhaeraun was dead, the cleric wouldn't have been able to cast spells and I do believe he did so.
Thus, Vhaeraun and Selvetarm probably just beat each other to a pulp and are now licking their wounds. Kinda like a typical Cops episode. Son and dad get into a fight, beat each other badly while showing no fashion sense in their wife beater t-shirts, and then the cops come to break it up. Same thing here, minus the cops and the t-shirts. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 15:49:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
Vhaeraun will be alright, continue to bide his time, and kill the Spider Queen when the time is right! I hope Selvetarm falls down onto a stalagmite....
Agreed, Selvertarm needs to go. I accuse him of the worst thing possible, he's just boring much like Ghaunadaur. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 17:21:02
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| Aye, Ghaunadaur was stupid enough to drain the sentience from many beings that worshiped him, greatly reducing his own power, all because he was angry! No, I think that Toril as a whole would be far better if Vhaeraun was the only drow deity. If all drow worshiped him, it might just elevate The Masked Lord to an intermediate or even greater deity! |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 18:49:26
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| Shadowlord, if that does happen, then Mask will go after Vhaerun and take his power. And we all know who's gonna win that one, right? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Lolth's Silence
