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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 10:15:24
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Hello,
I just read the very good and very useful "Volo's Guide" article in Dragon 354 by Eric L. Boyd. It puts things nicely in order and provides you with a timeline of major events in Cormanthor during the last three DR years.
It even seems to introduce the events that lead to the second FR super module of the year (The Scouring of Shadowdale).
SPOILER WARNING - SCOURING OF SHADOWDALE - Players read no further
And that's where I find myself a bit surprised by the lack of creativity in one specific aspect.
On page 74, entry for Nightal 15, 1374 DR, it indicates that Sharran assassins attack El's tower and that the good old wizard vanishes/is hurled into another plane.
AGAIN?!?
Wasn't it the trick the Shadovars pulled on him last time (interaction Weave-Shadow Weave tears him into hell)? One would think he'd take precautions for the next time...
I usually leave the Chosen entirely out of my FR games (and in-game world depiction for that matters), so I do not really need a "trick" to convince my players that Elminster is unavailable to solve these problems.
I just think it's hard to believe - for those that stick with the old man - that he'd be tricked into this a second time...
And where did the Sharrans sent him this time? Shadow Plane? Negative Energy plane? Walmart?
Bocklin
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Edited by - Bocklin on 24 Mar 2007 10:18:31
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 11:17:49
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Yes it sets up #2 (as indicated in spoilers warning). There's more to his defeat than what's in the timeline. (Not a lot more, but more.) From a design perspective, we were aware that this one piece of the backstory is likely to bug folks the most. Hopefully the rest of the adventure makes up for it.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 15:05:28
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Spoilers
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Actually I'm kinda surprised that Mourngrym allowed the Zhent's to set up their army in Shadowdale. Zhent's have attacked Shadowdale repeatedly for over a decade, now all of a sudden they are allowed to stay?
I hope there's a VERY GOOD reason for this, otherwise it makes no sense.
And what happens to Sylune if Dove and Storm were forced to flee from Shadowdale due to the Weave and Silverfire? Sylune still has many/most of her Chosen powers. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 24 Mar 2007 15:24:39 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 20:53:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Spoilers
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Actually I'm kinda surprised that Mourngrym allowed the Zhent's to set up their army in Shadowdale. Zhent's have attacked Shadowdale repeatedly for over a decade, now all of a sudden they are allowed to stay?
I hope there's a VERY GOOD reason for this, otherwise it makes no sense.
And what happens to Sylune if Dove and Storm were forced to flee from Shadowdale due to the Weave and Silverfire? Sylune still has many/most of her Chosen powers.
Never fear, all of these issues are (IMHO) adequately addressed.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 21:31:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Spoilers
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Actually I'm kinda surprised that Mourngrym allowed the Zhent's to set up their army in Shadowdale. Zhent's have attacked Shadowdale repeatedly for over a decade, now all of a sudden they are allowed to stay?
I hope there's a VERY GOOD reason for this, otherwise it makes no sense.
And what happens to Sylune if Dove and Storm were forced to flee from Shadowdale due to the Weave and Silverfire? Sylune still has many/most of her Chosen powers.
Good questions ...
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 21:35:24
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| Then I wait to see what happens. :) Still not sold on these modules though. They change to much for my liking. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 02:11:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
Hello,
I just read the very good and very useful "Volo's Guide" article in Dragon 354 by Eric L. Boyd. It puts things nicely in order and provides you with a timeline of major events in Cormanthor during the last three DR years.
It even seems to introduce the events that lead to the second FR super module of the year (The Scouring of Shadowdale).
SPOILER WARNING - SCOURING OF SHADOWDALE - Players read no further
And that's where I find myself a bit surprised by the lack of creativity in one specific aspect.
On page 74, entry for Nightal 15, 1374 DR, it indicates that Sharran assassins attack El's tower and that the good old wizard vanishes/is hurled into another plane.
AGAIN?!?
Wasn't it the trick the Shadovars pulled on him last time (interaction Weave-Shadow Weave tears him into hell)? One would think he'd take precautions for the next time...
I usually leave the Chosen entirely out of my FR games (and in-game world depiction for that matters), so I do not really need a "trick" to convince my players that Elminster is unavailable to solve these problems.
I just think it's hard to believe - for those that stick with the old man - that he'd be tricked into this a second time...
And where did the Sharrans sent him this time? Shadow Plane? Negative Energy plane? Walmart?
Bocklin
You know... We don't know that it was the Shadow Weave/Weave interaction that caused El and his tower to go elsewhere. While it is a likely assumption, at the moment, it is exactly that: an assumption. I'll wait to see the actual material before I make a judgement call on it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 11:05:40
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Good idea, Wooly.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 16:29:31
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| yeah, considering the last time it happened it was something more destructive than *poof* |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 18:26:16
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All this just makes me more impatient. I can't wait to get my hands on this module and start converting it to my Realms Campaign.
Thanks everyone! :smiles happily:
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 18:33:47
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| Whatever happens in that module, I will buy it. I do, however, have secret hope that Elminster plays the role of the mastermind in this, as opposed to the role of the victim. After reading El's Daughter, there's no way you can convince me that El cannot open a gigantic can of whoopass when he's REAAAAALLY pissed! (or even 'moderately' pissed! i.e. loved how he handled those Red Wizards! he he he!) |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 02:47:16
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Hello-
Well - I had a thought that while it might 'seem' like the tower was destroyed - while perhaps El moves it somewhere more safe, or more tactical... or somesuch.
Considering some of the names involved with the creation of this - and how highly we think of them - I doubt highly that there will be a cheesy explanation. I am somewhat eager to see this. :)
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 08:13:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You know... We don't know that it was the Shadow Weave/Weave interaction that caused El and his tower to go elsewhere. While it is a likely assumption, at the moment, it is exactly that: an assumption. I'll wait to see the actual material before I make a judgement call on it.
Hi Wooly,
That's not really my point, but - as a side comment - "okay, sure". 
Bocklin |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 01:52:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'll wait to see the actual material before I make a judgement call on it.
Agreed, although I also agree with the sentiment expressed by Bocklin--people who "know" the Realms (or are at least mature roleplayers) should not expect NPCs like Elminster to solve all their problems to begin with, so I would hope that the story regarding Elminster isn't just a way to "take Elminster out of the picture" when the adventure shouldn't really have to do that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 27 Mar 2007 01:54:12 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 02:39:12
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My question is more, what is the need to attack Shadowdale again ? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 04:46:49
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| I don't know . . . the implication from way back in the Old Grey Box Set was that Shadowdale was in a precarious place between Zhentil Keep and the rest of the dales. If anything, from the Time of Troubles on Shadowdale was shifted out of what seemed the "norm," i.e. constantly being on watch against Zhent invasion. |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 08:00:14
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As much as I like the suspense of the adventure premise, it still leaves me wondering a great deal...
I.E. assuming that the Shadow Weave is responsible for the magical destruction of Elminster's tower (since otherwise Mystra aught to have foreseen it), is there a reason why the Sage of Shadowdale never simply applied three castings of rend shadow weave (the 3rd level spell from Champions of Valor) to his three-story tower? Or similar wardings applied to Storm's farm, Sylune's ruined hut, and other dwellings of the Chosen?
I ask given that the Guardians of the Weave do have a safehold in Shadowdale, and they are (allegedly) backed or at least known to the Seven Sisters, and that Elminster has already tasted his fair share of ambushes from Shadow Adepts...starting with the one who slew his parents a dozen centuries ago, and culminating with the Shade Princes who ambushed him at his tower in 1371, and the entourage of Shadow Weave-tainted Red Wizards who ambushed him and the Simbul upon their return to Toril later that same year.
Moreover, is the scourging of Shadowdale just part of a set up to relocate Elminster, Storm, Dove, and the Knights of Myth Drannor to the newly reclaimed (and still fighting for it's existence) city of song? I personally would imagine that is what Mystra had in mind all along by having them dwelling in the nearby Shadowdale for all these years. |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 08:11:16
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RE: Syluné...and her being unaccounted for in the Dragon article timeline.
I was sort of hoping that maybe there would be a side quest involving aiding/rescuing her, such as her being trapped and unable to flee/teleport away due to whatever conditions affect the Weave in the area, but unable to be truly slain by the invaders due to her rejuvenation ability from her spectral harpist (modified ghost) template. Thus Esvele Greycastle could just be tormenting/imprisoning/interrogating her and the PC's sneak in while she is alone and are given the task to get her to safety by spiriting away one of the stone fragments of her hut, and in return maybe she could tell them where to find a hidden cache of magic items somewhere nearby.
I don't suppose my plot predictions are at all prescient? If not I suppose I could always just throw in a custom sidequest of my own. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 12:55:19
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The PCs do get to interact with Sylûne.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 15:49:36
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Malaug (in his guise of Undarl Dragonrider, leader of the Magelords of Athalantar) slew El's parents - - and paid for it. Aside from being a powerful mage who pioneered shapechanging and learned easy access to a demiplane of shadows, Realmslore is still vague as to his precise classes and capabilities.
Or so Ed's current notes say; I checked with him.
love,
THO |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 15:54:10
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Postscript: I thought Elminster's side trip to Wal-Mart got edited out of the final version of the module . . .
All those blue-vest encounters . . .
love,
THO |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 18:41:43
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Hmm -- the module's only a week or so away now. Ideally, excerpts should start appearing in the relatively near future.
I have to admit, the marketing spin that WotC's putting on this one, ("Somebody has to do something about this!", see last month's previews or something), is really working on me. For one thing, Shadowdale and surrounds have long been high on my list of "must explore" locales, (a list that included most of Toril last I checked.) More, though, it strikes me as something more than your average dungeon crawl adventure, (not that those can't be fun.) I'm currently reading Volo's Guide to the Dalelands. While it doesn't contain Shadowdale itself, many of the other Dales are lovingly detailed therein, and it seems to me that it is on the back of such get-to-know-and-love-the-Realms material that adventures such as "Scouring" are built. Works such as the Volo's Guides have made these places real -- despite being fictional, they matter to us. The idea that these lands might be in danger, not to mention the plight of well known characters, great and small, in Shadowdale itself, is enough to get one quite upset and in a mood to ... well ... scour the land somewhat.
This is testament to how beautifully Ed crafted the Dales, (and the rest of Faerun, too), -- these are places and people worth defending. The dragon's horde; the secret door; the next level of Dungeon Crawl X; all these things can wait. Hi me hense to Shadowdale -- there are Zhents to be slain, and wrongs to be redressed. Huzzah!
Anything anyone's particularly looking forward to/hoping to see in the module? (Perhaps we should move any further discussions to the adventure's main scroll -- unless we want to designate this one as such.)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 23:10:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Simbul
Moreover, is the scourging of Shadowdale just part of a set up to relocate Elminster, Storm, Dove, and the Knights of Myth Drannor to the newly reclaimed (and still fighting for it's existence) city of song? I personally would imagine that is what Mystra had in mind all along by having them dwelling in the nearby Shadowdale for all these years.
Yuck, I would hope not (I'm no fan at all of those new Myth Drannor events). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2007 : 15:44:02
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Hello-
Do we have even an approximate timestamp for when the events take place?
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2007 : 16:07:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Hello-
Do we have even an approximate timestamp for when the events take place?
Dhomal
What events?
The Reclamation of Myth Drannor is outlined in Dragon #354 through the end of 1374 DR. This covers the events of the Last Mythal trilogy and leads up to the Shadowdale module.
The Shadowdale module is presumed to occur in Hammer, 1375 DR.
This is not to say you can't move the dates around, but for continuity purposes (i.e. with events going on in Lisa Smedman's novel trilogy and Paul Kemp's novel trilogy) that's the dates.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 05:04:39
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Unless this is indeed a hidden master plan by Elminster I would think that, given how she reacted last time good old El was forcibly removed from his home, that The Simbul would soon be leveling Sharran temples and Zhent holdings right and left....I will be interested to see if she was considered at all in this storyline.
I too find the similarity to 'the last time this happened' too coincidental. And the fact that suddenly products are simply writing off major powers (e.g. Expedition to Undermountain  ) on a whim seems to be a disturbing trend. Of course we saw a similar scenario a long time ago in the old avatar Shadowdale module (hopefully the PCs won’t be blamed this time  ).
If I read the timeline correctly it seems this is basically a continuation of the war with the Zhents and the returning Elves (picking up after the Last Mythal series), with Shadowdale caught in the middle. That is all fine and good and makes sense even. But adventuring in Shadowdale in such circumstances seems problematic to me because first you have a tremendous power base in the region, given the recent military events of the war in the Last Mythal series I doubt that Shadowdale would be sitting idly by waiting to be attacked. With El, Dove, Sylune, Storm, presumably on ‘alert’, anything that has the power to take them down is certainly too much for PCs of level 8-13. Lead a revolt against such powers? Sounds a bit forced and implausible…but I remain open minded in the hopes of being impressed. 
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 06:21:43
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Hello-
Thanks Eric - thats just what I was looking for date-wise.
Which leads me to some interesting thoughs....
Spoilers or EtU...........
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Well - what about Elminster taking over for Halaster? Perhaps he was n ot so much as 'tricked' again - but required to leave quickly...
We have been told that he has been steadilly going crazy - so perhaps he is just the right fit... And the timestamp I think is at least somewhat close....
Just a thought I guess.....
Dhomal
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I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 17:08:22
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I thought EtU took place later in 1375; I believe the date I saw was Eleint. Still an interesting possibility, though.
Does anyone know if there will be lore heavy coverage of Shadowdale and surrounds in the book. I heard there was an appendix in "The Tearing of the Weave" which provided some information on Wheloon and some other locations. Perhaps there will be something of this sort?
Interesting that the module takes place in Hammer. That sets it: post Last Mythal, right in the middle of Paul Kemp's Twilight War, and prior to Lisa Smedman's Lady Penitent series, the first book of which takes place very late in the Year of Risen Elfkin if I remember correctly. Lots going on in this module; hopefully we'll see plenty of organizations and individuals in play.
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 18:31:16
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| The product page over at WOTC does say that in addition to encounters, this book contains detailed source material on the town of Shadowdale and environs. How much and how detailed? No idea yet. I'm hoping to get it sometime next week (if my FLGS has it in then. I sure hope so!) |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2007 : 06:42:32
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quote:
Interesting that the module takes place in Hammer. That sets it: post Last Mythal, right in the middle of Paul Kemp's Twilight War, and prior to Lisa Smedman's Lady Penitent series, the first book of which takes place very late in the Year of Risen Elfkin if I remember correctly. Lots going on in this module; hopefully we'll see plenty of organizations and individuals in play.
Yep. There's a lot going on. We coordinated carefully to keep consistent with Lisa and Paul. (In particular, there's a minor character who appears in Lisa's novels that also plays a minor role in the adventure.)
Part of the motivation for setting it in Hammer was to add the complication of winter terrain to the outdoor encounters.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 07:46:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Spoilers
Actually I'm kinda surprised that Mourngrym allowed the Zhent's to set up their army in Shadowdale. Zhent's have attacked Shadowdale repeatedly for over a decade, now all of a sudden they are allowed to stay?
I hope there's a VERY GOOD reason for this, otherwise it makes no sense.
I imagine it could either be the result of a very successful Intimidate check from Darkhope (with whatever circumstance modifiers would apply from having overrun and occupied the Dale), or a suggestion or dominate spell (i think his Will save in the "Realms Personalities" article is like...+2?).
Alternatively, perhaps they managed to capture his wife and infant son, and threatened to torture/kill them unless he signed some surrender treaty, or made a public appearance declaring the occupation "legitimate".
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And what happens to Sylune if Dove and Storm were forced to flee from Shadowdale due to the Weave and Silverfire? Sylune still has many/most of her Chosen powers.
I would imagine Syluné could decided to hide out on the ethereal plane, since the Weave--and any adverse affects it is experiencing in Shadowdale--should only apply to the prime material plane.
Alternatively, their could be areas of Shadowdale where the weave is still largely untouched, or small pockets of the Weave (think Aloevan of Ardeep, re: City of Splendors: Waterdeep Web Enhancement)where her spirit might become trapped. Lastly, I imagine her rejuvenation ability would allow her to repeatedly be destroyed and just "come back " several times until things are set right.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The PCs do get to interact with Sylûne.
-- George Krashos
sings "...and if I died today I'd be the happy phantom.."
Now if that further meant a (lovely) stat block & illustration as well then I probably would have to buy multiple copies to demonstrate my excitement.
p.s. trivial accent-mark nitpick--Selûne (the goddess) is spelled with the circumflex (û), as used in Faerûn. Whereas Syluné (of the Seven Sisters) is spelled using the umlaut (é) like in café.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Malaug (in his guise of Undarl Dragonrider, leader of the Magelords of Athalantar) slew El's parents - - and paid for it. Aside from being a powerful mage who pioneered shapechanging and learned easy access to a demiplane of shadows, Realmslore is still vague as to his precise classes and capabilities.
Or so Ed's current notes say; I checked with him.
love,
THO
Hmm, I do admit I probably should have used more selective phrasing, or at least the lower-case version of the phrase "shadow adept".
I meant "shadow adept" in the general sense of a spellcaster who utilizes the Shadow Weave, but not to directly imply a reference to a specific class. Much in the same way that "archmage" could be used to describe any high level arcane spellcaster, or "Harper" could be applied to any member of the organization, without directly implying actual levels in the associated prestige classes.
However, as for my assertion that the murderer of Elminster's parents was a Shadow Adept, I draw that from this specific scene in The Summoning, where Melegaunt relates to his siblings the potential interference Elminster may bring to their plans
quote:
The Summoning, Chapter 20
"I have spoken of one called Elminster," said Melegaunt.
"The gray bearded Chosen," said the horned warrior. "We have observed him. A powerful ally--or an inconvenient enemy. Which?"
"That is yet to be decided, my lord Rivalen, but I fear unexpected events have turned him a little against us. As you know, his parents were slain by a shadow mage, and that has made him suspicious of us....
Now in the vast myriad of game options in the D&D universe available to us in 2007, the phrase "shadow mage" could conceivably be ascribed to any number of variant professions, classes, or magical paths. However, in the context of that novel, in that series of events, and in the context of that speaking character, the phrase "shadow mage" would invariably apply to a mage who works through the Shadow Weave. Numerous further instances in that book use that or similar terms in direct association with the shadow weave, and do so from a myriad of narrative perspectives, including 3rd person insights of Elminster's perspective in describing what he knows of these mysterious "shadow wizards" and what he has come to expect/learn from encountering them over the years.
Thus with that in mind, and with little else to further elaborate details on Undarl, I think it is safe to categorize him as a shadow weave spellcaster. Regardless, Elminster and the Seven Sisters have had had numerous encounters with minions of Shar over the centuries, including the most recent events in Silverfall, Return of the Archwizards, and Elminster in Hell, as well as encounters from the past, as elaborated in other parts of the Elminster series. Thus it would make rather perfect sense to me that if Telemont Tanthul's palace can act as an as of yet undefined "Shadow Weave Nexus" that could snuff out the Chosen of Mystra if they dared enter, then given the spells available to them the personal abodes of the Chosen of Mystra should be far more fortified against Shar's false weave in turn.
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
Anything anyone's particularly looking forward to/hoping to see in the module? (Perhaps we should move any further discussions to the adventure's main scroll -- unless we want to designate this one as such.)
I personally want more generic information about Shadowdale as a whole that I can use to create future adventures in the town, such as one would find in the apparently extinct concept of regional sourcebooks.
So hopefully;
-Re-useable (and detailed) Maps
-City stat blocks (enumerating the class/levels of citizens within, city guard/militia, notable persons, etc)
-NPC stat blocks
-illustrations galore
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Unless this is indeed a hidden master plan by Elminster I would think that, given how she reacted last time good old El was forcibly removed from his home, that The Simbul would soon be leveling Sharran temples and Zhent holdings right and left....I will be interested to see if she was considered at all in this storyline.
I think much of the fury displayed by the Simbul in Elminster in Hell could be attributed to the fact that he was still in danger during the entire events of that story. In this instance, at least according to the Volo's Guide timeline, it appears that Elminster "vanishes" after a fierce battle. In the context of Elminster's history, spells and capabilities, and his status as a Chosen of a deity, I do not think it far fetched to assume that he has simply been snatched away to his safehold or some corner of Dweomerheart to re-cooperate from the battle, and thus is unavailable for the adventure.
In addition, according to the timeline the damage/warping/whatever sustained by the Weave has effectively prevented Storm and Dove from entering Shadowdale without being serious wounded by it. Therefore it seems that even if Elminster could fully heal himself after the battle he would not be able to return either, nor would the Simbul be swooping in to lay waste to the army of Darkhope with her battle-spells.
Assuming my guesses are correct, then I personally imagine the Simbul would be off tending to Elminster and aiding in his healing/recooperating, then they could use their magic to contact allies/agents (i.e. the Player Characters) to enter Shadowdale on their behalf and investigate what is going on and to aid it it's defense.
If anything, as far as using the Simbul, she could be a motivating factor for any character or group of characters from Aglarond (or the Unapproachable East as a whole) to investigate the matter--either because they are available adventurers hired out by her avenge Elminster/defend Shadowdale, or they are agents/former apprentices acting as her proxy, or even if they are her enemies (such as Red Wizard apprentices sent by their cruel masters on a suicide mission to Shadowdale to attack the Simbul if she arrives in the aftermath of Elminster's defeat--which presumably she wouldn't given what has been revealed about the adventure.
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
I too find the similarity to 'the last time this happened' too coincidental. And the fact that suddenly products are simply writing off major powers (e.g. Expedition to Undermountain ) on a whim seems to be a disturbing trend.
That is something that does really bother me. The former has become expected, but the latter I find really unacceptable--moreso in it being handled in a rather casual off-handed way, in the exposition of an adventure.
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
If I read the timeline correctly it seems this is basically a continuation of the war with the Zhents and the returning Elves (picking up after the Last Mythal series), with Shadowdale caught in the middle. That is all fine and good and makes sense even. But adventuring in Shadowdale in such circumstances seems problematic to me because first you have a tremendous power base in the region, given the recent military events of the war in the Last Mythal series I doubt that Shadowdale would be sitting idly by waiting to be attacked. With El, Dove, Sylune, Storm, presumably on ‘alert’, anything that has the power to take them down is certainly too much for PCs of level 8-13. Lead a revolt against such powers? Sounds a bit forced and implausible…but I remain open minded in the hopes of being impressed.
I assume that the assassins sent to attack Elminster's tower would have all perished in the battle, which is just as well for minions of Shar, since servants of a nihilistic goddess do not care much if they die for her--and I imagine she cares not a wit either. Thus even if they are not powerful enough to actually kill one of the Chosen, they can certainly overwhelm them to the point that they either run out of spells, get too low on HP, or otherwise simply have to flee. |
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Elminster falls for it again (Scouring of Shad..)
