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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Mar 2007 : 22:25:52
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By. Charles Phipps
This book, for me at least, is the transition piece from 2nd Edition Dungeons and Dragons Forgotten Realms to 3rd edition Dungeons and Dragons Forgotten Realms. I love all three editions of Forgotten Realms but the changes in the campaign setting were huge for me when the 3rd edition book came out. I wondered who the new Royal Witch was, pretty as she was, and how exactly Cormyr had come to its current spot. I also felt that the power balance in the books had changed tremendously with Fzoul/Ssass Tam having somehow reversed their continuous ass kicking from the Avatar Trilogy onward. This never was a problem in 2nd Edition Ed Greenwood books but this book has a different feel for me, nevertheless.
For me, like Elminster in Hell, this book is the start of a New Age for the Realms (or a new generation). The Shadowmasters that were set up to be the Big Bad of the Realms have since been dealt with and the Shade have stepped up to take their place. Elminster is a much more mysterious figure than we're used to, even though Ed is indicating this is how he was always in the book. Plus, everyone is in the recovery stage from the big events that rocked the entirety of the Realms during the Time of Troubles onwards.
Now to get started; I think we've all asked this question every now and then. How do the Chosen of Mystra live such sexually provocative lives without leaving behind dozens of bastards or other illegitimate children? Certainly, it's not a question for King Azoun but a major part of his characterization that he's left behind 100 illegitimate children (I hope Vangy spends time keeping the descendants from accidentally marrying one another or otherwise having affair. It's Cormyr, not Ancient Egypt!)
The character of Elminster's Daughter in Narnra Shalace is an interesting take on the character of a descendant of the Chosen because she's fundamentally a normal girl. Well, she's a half-Song Dragon but we're talking relatively speaking. For literally, THOUSANDS of years, literature has subjected the world to 'Chosen Bloodline' stories.
Even literature as late as Harry Potter has the story about the importance of the bloodline in its rendering the world a better place. Here, Narnra Shalace is fundamentally a girl that is important because she's FOUND OUT to be Elminster's Daughter as opposed to being inherently important because of that aspect to her. It seems the chief thing that she's inherited from her illustrious parent is a Scottish accent.
Narna oddly reminds me of another of Ed's creations in Young Shandril. Given she's not quite as old as Shandril, it's unlikely she'll be off to find her own Narm and family anytime soon but there's a shared perkiness that makes me happy for her. It's a pity the young woman is unlikely to find anything resembling a stable family life in the company of the Mad Wizard Elminster given he's far too removed from humanity for something like that to happen (I fear the Simbul might try to adopt her). However, I do think that she'll nevertheless find the company of the Chosen to be the best sort of family that a young girl could have. If she survives that is.
The solution that Ed presents that the Chosen simply have magical birth control might be a less satisfying than some could want. Still, it's good to know their kids are fairly normal as all things are considered rather than super-beings.
Honestly, I'm more interested in Elminster's other revealed daughter than I am in Shalace. The Royal Household of Cormyr has already some books written about it but there had been little information about the Queen Mother's background. Sadly, this tantalizing hint of her best wasn't elaborated on which only makes me hungry for more. Though, Ed has detailed tremendous amounts of Cormyr already. Half the time I think it's become Cormyr and other RealmsTm.
You won't hear me complaining though.
The depiction of Regent Allusair's reign is perhaps my favorite portion of the book and honestly, I tend to think of it as the Golden Age of Cormyr for my party. Certainly, she lacks her father's tact and likability along with Vangy's raw mystical might. She also rules over a turbulent time and lets the emotions get the better of her. However, darnit if she's not more FUN. I imagine it also helps that so many treacherous noblemen were wiped out in the conspiracies against her reign at the start of the Dragon problem. I also like the depiction of Caladnei and Allusair's relationship. It's an intimate and interesting relationship that adds spice to the courtroom life.
My favorite part of the book is what I term to be the "Vangy in Love" portions of it. The storyline of the Court Wizard's retirement without an heir is something that should be a momentous moment in Cormyr. The breaking of a long line of Royal Wizards that had once been the kingdom's guardians but whom no one has noticed because they have hated the War Wizards for so long. Vangerdahast certainly knows this and it seems to explain why he's living like a hermit in the middle of nowhere. Clearly, the loss of Azoun has affected the old man deeply and he must feel that he's lost his purpose in life. There's probably a lot of guilt for the deaths of the heir and King as well. Vangerdahast raised Tanalasta as much as Azoun, if not moreso, so the twin losses must hit him like the loss of his own offspring.
The fact that Ed somehow manages to make the salty old magician achieve love in one of the most unlikely of places (twice) helps the matter considerably and it's good to know the Royal Line of Wizards will continue. Frankly, I think it's pretty obvious that Vangy became a Black Dragon. Probably one with a very peculiar shade of purple to him.
:-)
Darkspells was yet another member of the Red Wizards of Thay that proves himself to be the same snake in the grass that all of them are. The defeat of the figure won't probably have much in the way of an affect on the nation of darkness but a part of me hopes that Ed will eventually write a story about how all of their plots have finally worn that center of monstrousness down to the bare bones of its power. Honestly, there's some hints picked up that their once mighty power has been severely tested in this book by the defeats they've all suffered in the past few decades. The need for Vangy's experiments to enslave dragons is just another sign of how they've been brought low.
In conclusion, I found Elminster's Daughter to be impressive despite the fact that it was very much a "Day in the Life of the Cormyr Nobility plus the Chosen's usual meddling." It was nice to see an epilogue to the events of the Cormyr Trilogy since so much was left up in the air after that disaster. Having the Chosen of Chosens (Elminster) serving as the guardian of the country in the wake of the disaster works well and his solution will make sure that the House Obaskyr will probably reign for another thousand years before being brought low.
8/10
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 03 Mar 2007 22:36:12
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2007 : 23:10:20
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As for the Chosen and offspring question, they are not allowed to get with child unless Mystra wills it. So, they can have pleasure and more pleasure and no child will come of it less Mystra wants it. :)
This has come from Ed over the years, especially on the mailing list when I asked, years ago, about the Chosen and their sex lives. That reply is also in Ed's files either in 2004 or 2005. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 20:18:26
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Who says Elminster has a Scottish accent?
Also, I could have sworn reading somewhere that Filfaeril isn't literally a daughter of Elminster, but rather a descendant of his. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 21:32:07
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| A black dragon? Oh, no no, Mr. Phipps. I'm rather certain that Vangerdahast wound up as a steel dragon (despite any official word in any direction)... but what know I? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2007 : 22:49:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Also, I could have sworn reading somewhere that Filfaeril isn't literally a daughter of Elminster, but rather a descendant of his.
You are correct, Ed or THO said it on these boards. The reply should be in my files. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 22:41:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
A black dragon? Oh, no no, Mr. Phipps. I'm rather certain that Vangerdahast wound up as a steel dragon (despite any official word in any direction)... but what know I?
Enough that I'd take your word for it ninety-nine times out of a hundred. That is meant to be a compliment, by the way. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 00:46:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
Enough that I'd take your word for it ninety-nine times out of a hundred. That is meant to be a compliment, by the way.
And taken so. Thank you.
Dragons, as a general rule, have attitudes that match their alignments. Humanoids that become dragons, however, tend to adopt forms--either intentionally, or because of the magics that make them so--that match their previous alignments and attitudes. For instance, Lorelei Alavara, the elf driven mad by the death of her betrothed Thatoryl (and swiftly descended into evilly chaotic behavior) wound up as the "Devil Dragon" Nalavara that later menaced Cormyr.
It's only reasonable to assume that Vangerdahast, a lawful neutral wizard leaning toward lawful goodness (but much blood on his hands and willing to stain them still further) would adopt a LN dragon form... assuming he had any say in the matter. The steel/Greyhawk dragon is best suited for Old Thunderspells; it enjoys playing with human folks, is interested in the defense of civilized realms, and is more magically powerful than even the gold and red dragons. Emerald and sapphire dragons are also LN, but don't have the natural propensity to shift away from their base alignments as easily as steel dragons do. I'm inclined to believe that, given the freedom, Vangerdahast will eventually wind up as lawful good. After much soul-searching and penance, of course. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 02:15:36
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Garen Thal,
Ed says you are right on all of this. As usual. :}
He did, however, point out that Vangey retains his magic use in any form, and probably would use it to be a steel dragon that LOOKS LIKE a black dragon gone purple with age.
love,
THO |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 02:35:02
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| But of course he would, that 'scare the natives' rascal. Or, at the very least, a purple-tinged steel dragon (ahem, a darksteel dragon?) with glowing purple eyes... |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 03:07:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
But of course he would, that 'scare the natives' rascal. Or, at the very least, a purple-tinged steel dragon (ahem, a darksteel dragon?) with glowing purple eyes...
Because he could use the legend of the Purple Dragon to help support the crown. There was an item in Dragons of Faerun, a ring that allows one to change both a dragon's shape and their breath weapon. A good adventure hook would be a question to gain one of these rings for Vangey. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Walking in the Light
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 07:42:24
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I found the book to be fun as well
Prety much what Charles Phipps said, is how I see it as well
The only thing is, I wish the new Daughter of El, hunted him down a wee bit longer
Don’t get me wrong, I like the happy ending of everything working out
Basically, I was hoping for a 2 maybe 3 book deal, where the Daughter “Narnra Shalace” El child, doesn’t find out she has a father
She just knows that she being paid to kill some mage named El or those he hangs out with
You know, the classic misguided lass, who try’s to figure out who she is and what to do with her life
I think Narnra Shalace, could have become just as popular for book fans, as say Driz or El for that matter
People want a tuff but likeable Rogue and "She" fits the bill
Just needed to keep the edge, of not being so friendly with El to make it happen
O well who knows maybe they will have a falling-out
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From the Book Halfling Sayings by Agudo
A Lion Tamer once said, if ya need an illusionist for thy circus then call a Gnome
But if thy circus needs a clown send in the Halflings
Chapter 5-The town of Gullykin on the Sword Coast
By Lady Silvin Lionheart, speaking to Agudo in the year of the Comical Halfling
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Edited by - Walking in the Light on 07 Mar 2007 07:47:14 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 16:29:44
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Elminster's Daughter Part Deux
I've done something with this book that I rarely do and broke it out to read again. Mostly, this is because I wanted to refresh myself for our current 3E campaign that starts from the Devil Dragon onwards (I'm utterly breaking canon by having a variant of Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal happening during the same time).
The nuances of the book change tremendously for me because I actually know who a lot of the characters are now whom, to my shame, I had very little knowledge of when I first started reading. I intend to also re-read the Knights of Eveningstar after this to see if I can follow the plot better.
You know, to be honest, I think this is probably my favorite Ed novel. There's the usual Ed-isms that are occasionally a bit trying (no offense to you Ed, we still love you). "Hi, I'm Nanya Winterspells, I'm a beautiful important noble of the Crown and terribly important to the plot. Time to switchover to the bad guys perspective!" Wait, wha? Eds actually pretty tame in these books but I'd love to have a guy named Winston or Frederick or Marlene in these books sometimes.
However, the plot is largely seemless and I had very little difficulty following it with the book being primarilly about character development rather than the questionable plot of the Cormaerils attempting to return back to power with Thayan help (I'm actually pleased to note that the book never treats them as ever seriously jeopardizing the Crown. Frankly, Elminster and the Simbul's influence here is largely superfulous---Calandei is doing a quite reasonable job).
As I mentioned earlier, this is a love note to 3E and is all about the changing of the guard to a certain extent. Midnight/Mystra gets to ask her Chosen if she's doing a good job, Elminster and the Simbul are a bit unnerved by this but give her a thumb's up. Calandei really is the star here more than the titular El's rugrat. Also, we get to see some hints of how Alusair is handling the ruling status without Daddykins or Vangey.
Some fans, with a better knowledge of Cormyr than I at the start of 3E, complained that Laspeera should have been Royal Wizard. Honestly, that's fairly obvious, but Ed manages to insert a surprising amount of subtext into books that have (wrongly) been accused of being spells and wenches. Caladnei has clearly been chosen by Vangey, in part, because she's completely out of the Royal Wizard's ranks.
Vangey's weariness and disgust with his failure to protect Cormyr and Azoun is a surprising bit of continuity from TSR books. He's clearly shell shocked and suffering from PTS in some respects as he's living like a hermit as much by his guilt as his need to work on binding Dragons to defend Cormyr. Obviously, he wants someone out of the usual intrigues to give Alusair a fresh start and if Laspeera were a more ambitious woman you'd see this be a plot point. Clearly, she's more interested in serving the Realm (Random Fact- Laspeera is played by Sela Ward in our campaigns as a slightly older beauty).
Myreem Lah's story ends here even as I had been honestly wondering how long the Lady Lord would be maintaining her gorgeous looks and statuesque build as she's been leading the city state for a very long time gamewise. The relationship with Vangey and birthing his child is a great surprise even as we know that the "-ahast" wizard lineage will continue. If there is a hundred year time jump, I hope Ed will do books about Azoun the Fifth and his "Brother Wizard" (though, honestly, it'll be interesting to imagine a wizard raised by Myreem! I have the funniest image of a 6'6 burly brawler type with a spell pouch around his Ranger Wear!)
Caladnei, as portrayed by Ed, is a woman that's clearly out of her depth but also adapting to the situation in typical adventurer fashion. I wondered, briefly, what possible use she could get out of Narnra when she has all of Vangey's spy network. Then, I blinked and realized she was trying to set up her OWN one that would think of her first rather than Vangey's older ones. A good way of securing future generations. It's also nice to see that she was "one of us" and an adventurer for my party.
Overall, this is a nice "bookend" to the Cormyr trilogy and one that tells us that the Realms is in good hands. I also enjoy Ed's constant insertion of random but interesting potential NPCs like the 26 year old Sembian mother of four in exile. It tells a great deal about Realms life without saying much directly.
So, Bravo Ed. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Elminster's Daughter review *Spoilers*
