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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 03:45:27
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I am DM'ing a game and sadly I have to admit I always kinda winged it when it came to developing enconters. I was always more interested in storyline and reasons for the encounter. Since sharpening my DM skills of late I have been using the CR system more often. In fact exclusively. The problem is that I like giving class levels and Realms based PrC's to my monsters and NPCs. Now here is the kicker.
4-1st level PCs= CR 1
1-CR 1 monster= CR 1
1-CR 1 monster with 1 level of rogue= ECL 2
With that said does an ECL 2 monster= a CR 2 encounter when the PCs in theory need four of their own number (all of the same level) to equal their levels number CR? 
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Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 04:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
4-1st level PCs= CR 1
1-CR 1 monster= CR 1
1-CR 1 monster with 1 level of rogue= ECL 2
You've got things a bit off, here. Basically, CR of X means that a party of four PCs of level X would need to expend 1/4 of its resources (here meaning hit points and daily uses of spells and class abilities) to defeat a monster of CR X.
One 1st-level NPC (not a PC; NPCs have gear calculated at different values than PCs do) is CR 1, not 4 1st-level NPCs. So a 1st-level fighter (assuming a Player's Handbook race) is CR 1, just like a lemure or a ghoul.
When adding class levels to a monster, you add the total number of levels to the monster's existing CR. A 4th-level bugbear fighter (normally CR 2) is thus a CR 6 threat.
ECL (effective class level) has nothing to do with CR (challenge rating) or EL (encounter level). At all. You shouldn't factor ECL in the least when constructing your encounters, except to determine the amount of gear a given NPC has.
Encounter level (EL) is a measurement of the total threat a group of opponents poses to an adventuring party. To determine EL, you need to first calculate the CR of each NPC or monster in the encounter, and then add them up according to the system provided in the DMG. For a single monster, CR is the same as EL.
Say you want to challenge a 4th-level party. You could use a level 4 ranger (CR 4), a vampire spawn (CR 4), a centaur fighter 1 (CR 3 + 1 class level= CR 4), or two 2nd-level orc barbarians (CR 2 each= EL 4), any of which should present a roughly similar threat to the group.
Hope this helps. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 15:50:18
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| It does help. Thank you very much. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 22:36:43
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| If I may, two wrinkles to the above. If the you use an NPC class (warrior, expert, commoner, etc.), they have a CR of their level -1, so an expert 1 is a CR 1/2. And if you add levels to a monster the levels only stack in a 1 to 1 proportion if it is considered a related class. So an ogre with barbarian levels stacks with the ogres base CR, an ogre with 2 levels of wizard is a different beast and would add only 1 to the ogres CR. See the MM for details on this. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 16:30:52
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This got me thinking.
The "Terraseer" is soposed to be a sarrukh, which is a cr 21 monster. Ad his( lets say 35 level of wizard) we get a total of 56 and adding his lich template aswell i believe thats an extra 2 we and up at CR 58
Thats one bad mofo snakeman!!! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 18:25:29
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I always liked using this calculator.
Effective Character Level (ECL) is used specifically for PCs who want to play a monster. The ECL of the monster is the starting level for that PC (before any Class Levels are added).
4-1st Level PCs = Level 1 Party (not sure if there is an acronym for that).
1-CR 1 Monster = a CR 1 Encounter (expected to expend 20% of the total resources of a Level 1 Party).
1-CR 1 Monster with 1 Level of Rogue = a CR 2 Monster.
1-Level Adjustment (LA) +0 Monster (such as an orc) with 1 Level of Rogue = a CR 1 Monster
1-LA +0 Monster with 1 Level of an NPC Class (such as warrior) = a CR 1/2 (sort of; how to calculate partial CRs is fuzzy for me)
1-LA +0 monster with 2 Levels of Warrior = a CR 1 Monster
(General Rules: if a monster has a LA and Racial Hit Dice, use the CR + the Class Level to determine CR; if a monster has a LA and no Racial Hit Dice, use the LA + the Class Level to determine CR; subtract from the total number of NPC Class Levels to determine CR)
Or more simply put:
Total CR (for a monster with Hit Dice) = CR + PC Class Levels + (NPC Class Levels - 1)
Total CR (for a monster without Hit Dice) = LA + PC Class Levels + (NPC Class Levels - 1) |
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Edited by - Hawkins on 22 Feb 2012 18:29:30 |
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ECL, CR, FR!!!!!
