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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 07:26:03
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Hi all,
Just looking at the War Wizard of Cormyr PrC in MoF and I was wondering if you'd leave it as is for 3.5 and if not what you'd change.
I don't see any outdated element and it seems kind of fine.
Comments and remarks welcome!
Bocklin
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 22:09:24
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| I left it as is in my campaign. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 22:55:56
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While I don't think that the War Wizard of Cormyr class accurate captures the "feel" of the Brotherhood of Wizards of War (except, perhaps, in their battlefield role, which is likely colored by incidents like the Horde Campaign), the PrC is mostly usable as-is.
I say "mostly" because of one of the changes that occurred between 3E and 3.5e. Widen Spell now enlarges a spell's area by 100% (in 3E, it was 50%), so the Enhanced Spell Area ability would need to be changed to account for that boost. I'd say an additional 50%--raising the total area to 250% of the original--should do the trick.
Given the greater feat requirements and higher minimum caster level, I think that the class might need a better (cleric/rogue) BAB progression or a d6 Hit Die--though not both--to properly compete with the 3.5 Eldritch Knight, but that's just me. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 01:58:04
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| None of the features of the War Wizard class make it any more like War Wizards than the wizard class. In the crowd of pointless prestige classes it's an unambiguous case. It doesn't even have Gather Information as a class skill. |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 07:12:04
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Thanks for the comments.
Is there then a PrC out there which does a better job at capturing the feel of a War Wizard, IYO? Maybe something from Complete Arcana?
Or do you know of a homebrew War Wizard PrC on the web?
Thanks again in advance.
Bocklin |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 05:38:28
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No, there isn't.
Why? War Wizards were always intended to be WIZARDS! (read: a class that allows for wide variations along a same theme, i.e. magic, which allows colleagues of the same class to develop specialties, tricks, fields of research, etc. which ultimately leads to a COMMUNITY effort, where the whole is better than the sum of all parts).
The War Wizards are a powerful community, like the Red Wizards of Thay. Members of a community vary widely, and the community cannot be expressed as a Prestige Class. I won't go into details, but suffice it to say that the Purple Dragon Knight and Red Wizard Prestige Classes suffer from the same malaise: they try to encapsulate a community, which is bound to fail. Same for the Harper Agent PrC (which is a real joke!)
With that said, the existing War Wizard Prestige Class can be a good battlefield, long-range option. Send your ranger scout ahead. Let him return. Cast fly on him and yourself (i.e. you are a War Wizard) Then have him lead you to the enemy camp, where you can unleash your enlarged/widened or whatever fireballs from a distance. Call it the aerial strike PrC. I do.
NOTE: by the way, I use the class AS IS, meaning I use an extra 100% not 50%... this makes it quite 'worth it' if you know what I mean!  |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 08:02:01
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Sure, "Wizards of whatever order" are wizards, but I think that PrCs do a good job at offering a tweek on the core class.
Red Wizards are over-spezialised but excellent in one school, Guild Wizards of Waterdeep are good at sharing stuff together, Halruaan wizards are good at flamboyant magic that they personalize, Hathran wizards use spirits in many way, etc.
That the fun of the different traditions of magic in the FR, so why not have PrCs that enable you to play different wizards. It would be boring if you'd only have spell-choices and a few Feats to differenciate two wizards, don't you think?
So since the War Wizard of Cormyr has a history and tradition of its own why not have a PrC that captures that spirit?
The question would be: what "is" the spirit of the War Wizard of Cormyr? Being an ignoramus on the things-Cormyr, I am asking: what specific talents should a War Wizard have and what can it do best?
Bocklin |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 23:38:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
That the fun of the different traditions of magic in the FR, so why not have PrCs that enable you to play different wizards. It would be boring if you'd only have spell-choices and a few Feats to differenciate two wizards, don't you think?
Bocklin
Well, there is also personality... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 00:00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
So since the War Wizard of Cormyr has a history and tradition of its own why not have a PrC that captures that spirit?
The question would be: what "is" the spirit of the War Wizard of Cormyr? Being an ignoramus on the things-Cormyr, I am asking: what specific talents should a War Wizard have and what can it do best?
Bocklin
I think the main issues that some scribes have is that the War Wizards have had a wide range of purposes in Cormyr over the years. Not only do they act as combat support for the military, they have served as investigators, spies, and and specifically the magical defense of the land.
The PrC only represents the aspect of War Wizards that act as military support casters. Now from my point of view, there is nothing wrong with the PrC, per se, its just that its not THE Cormyrean War Wizard, its one TYPE of Cormyrean War Wizard.
There are other PrCs that focus on wizards in other functions that would be appropriate for other functions that the War Wizards deal with. For example, the Unseen Seer PrC from Complete Mage can definately show a War Wizard that is trained in more clandestine activities and the use of divinations.
As with most PrCs that are named after organizations, I wouldn't assume that everyone that is a member of that group has that PrC, but that that PrC was "developed" by that organization for a given purpose.
Oh and Dragon 307 has some really good Cormyr PrCs from Tom Costa, although they haven't been 3.5 updated. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 00:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As with most PrCs that are named after organizations, I wouldn't assume that everyone that is a member of that group has that PrC, but that that PrC was "developed" by that organization for a given purpose.
I agree with you on that, although the thing that makes me wonder about some of these PrCs is: if not everyone in an organization has the organization's PrC(s), what's the point in anyone having it? If a PrC doesn't make you more of a member of X organization, then why is it necessary?
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 00:14:16
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Well, in the case of the War Wizards, I'd say that since not all members of the College of War Wizards are equally suited to being subtle political manipulators, that those whose skills lie more along the path of battlefield support would be trained in that PrC, and those that are more nimble, skulking, and training in divination, might be more prone to the Unseen Seer PrC, for example.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 05:19:42
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I agree with KnightErrant in that various skills are required of War Wizards, but disagree that PrCs are the way to go about that...
The War Wizards are a fearsome community. They succeed by having many wizards operate in different fields. They don't specialize to the extent Red Wizards do, but unlike the Red Wizards, who operate as a large conniving cabal, the War Wizards operate in a military officer structure, one that is parallel to the Purple Dragons. Therefore, rank and position can sometimes dictate one's purpose, one's field of operation, etc. A given War Wizard assigned to communications can be reassigned to royal bodyguard duty the next year. THIS is why the 'plain' wizard class works best here: the War Wizards MUST remain adaptable and mold themselves to the need of the country.
This is why I think the War Wizard PrC (while a good option in terms of actual class strength) does NOT represent the War Wizards properly! PrCs specialize wizards a certain way, and a 'good' War Wizard is one that is easily interchangeable (i.e. a generalist)
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Edited by - Purple Dragon Knight on 10 Feb 2007 05:21:51 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 19:22:14
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I definitely understand KEJR's point, as well...it's just that if one size does not fit all when it comes to this PrC, I don't see what the point is in even having it (as with any other similar PrC for an organization). If the PrC only represents a certain kind of War Wizard rather than the War Wizard, then it strikes me as somewhat unnecessary.
And yes, there are some PrCs that I like and/or find interesting, it's just that I'm one of those people who thinks many of them are silly or redundant. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 10 Feb 2007 19:24:09 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 19:33:28
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I will say I wouldn't be disappointed to see say a five or even three level PrC that has more general skills, like being able to communicate with supervisors over a distance without expending a spell, for example, or gaining a will bonus to saves to keep one from being taken over and "probed" for information about Cormyr.
If it were 5 or 3 levels, that would leave plenty of room for "specialized" training in other PrCs or a return to the standard wizard class to fill in the role they are best suited to. I'm not really argueing that its the best PrC to represent War Wizards, just that if I had a player that was a War Wizard and they wanted to take it, it wouldn't cause any problems.
I'd also be interested in seeing PrCs for War Wizards that represented higher ranking War Wizards with specialized training (War Wizard Ranking Inquisitor, War Wizard Battlefield Strategist). In short, I'm not 100% sold that some of the organization PrCs are the best representations of those organizations, but at the same time, some player hear about them and feel more "official" from having them.
On a similar note, and not to deviate too far from the Realms, I've seen a bit of talk on the DragonLance boards where the designers themselves have pointed out that a lot of Wizards of High Sorcery that have taken the Test still wouldn't have to have the WoHS PrC . . . so I guess across the board "organization" PrCs seem to have known limitations. |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 14:40:57
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That's a good way of putting it. We also use a variant of Urban Savant out of the City book. I think it reflects thier intel/counter intel role quite well.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
So since the War Wizard of Cormyr has a history and tradition of its own why not have a PrC that captures that spirit?
The question would be: what "is" the spirit of the War Wizard of Cormyr? Being an ignoramus on the things-Cormyr, I am asking: what specific talents should a War Wizard have and what can it do best?
Bocklin
I think the main issues that some scribes have is that the War Wizards have had a wide range of purposes in Cormyr over the years. Not only do they act as combat support for the military, they have served as investigators, spies, and and specifically the magical defense of the land.
The PrC only represents the aspect of War Wizards that act as military support casters. Now from my point of view, there is nothing wrong with the PrC, per se, its just that its not THE Cormyrean War Wizard, its one TYPE of Cormyrean War Wizard.
There are other PrCs that focus on wizards in other functions that would be appropriate for other functions that the War Wizards deal with. For example, the Unseen Seer PrC from Complete Mage can definately show a War Wizard that is trained in more clandestine activities and the use of divinations.
As with most PrCs that are named after organizations, I wouldn't assume that everyone that is a member of that group has that PrC, but that that PrC was "developed" by that organization for a given purpose.
Oh and Dragon 307 has some really good Cormyr PrCs from Tom Costa, although they haven't been 3.5 updated.
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"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 14:51:02
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| It also bears mentioning that a lot of War wizards use various PrCs to reflect different fields of expertise. I've statted out War Wizards who are Lore Masters, Urban Savants, Archmages, Havoc Mages etc. Members of the community bring different strenths to the table. Having a Havoc Mage and and a Lore Master supporting the Royal Gaurd in a body gaurd detail is a handy thing. I also use a loose guild of Eldritch Knights in Cormyr that gives the War Wizards an additional tool for monitoring mages for hire in Cormyr. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 14:54:50
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PDK, keep in mind that Ed has adamantly maintained that War Wizards do not have a rank structure, per se. There is no military hierarchy in the War Wizards. Ed and Jerry D have discussed this in great detail in Eds responces.
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
I agree with KnightErrant in that various skills are required of War Wizards, but disagree that PrCs are the way to go about that...
The War Wizards are a fearsome community. They succeed by having many wizards operate in different fields. They don't specialize to the extent Red Wizards do, but unlike the Red Wizards, who operate as a large conniving cabal, the War Wizards operate in a military officer structure, one that is parallel to the Purple Dragons. Therefore, rank and position can sometimes dictate one's purpose, one's field of operation, etc. A given War Wizard assigned to communications can be reassigned to royal bodyguard duty the next year. THIS is why the 'plain' wizard class works best here: the War Wizards MUST remain adaptable and mold themselves to the need of the country.
This is why I think the War Wizard PrC (while a good option in terms of actual class strength) does NOT represent the War Wizards properly! PrCs specialize wizards a certain way, and a 'good' War Wizard is one that is easily interchangeable (i.e. a generalist)
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"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2007 : 11:15:24
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quote:
Originally posted by bitter thorn
PDK, keep in mind that Ed has adamantly maintained that War Wizards do not have a rank structure, per se. There is no military hierarchy in the War Wizards. Ed and Jerry D have discussed this in great detail in Eds responces.
That is not accurate as far as I know: there is indeed a hierarchy present within the War Wizards, and their own parallel system of ranks have equivalencies with the Purple Dragon system, so as to clearly indicate who will be in command should a commanding officer fall (as in the case of mixed units containing Purple Dragons, War Wizards, Royal Scouts, Highknights, Nobles, etc.)
The very same Jerry D had the equivalencies worked out last time I checked... (Edit: his Chapter 4 on his "military structure document" posted at candlekeep.com will detail the War Wizards; it has not been posted yet) Perhaps Garen Thal did it back on the REALMS_LIST... (don't remember, but I have my own homecampaign document, which is a hybrid of stuff written by both Jerry D and Garen... and it has War Wizard ranks in it... maybe I [gasp!] dreamt these up myself!?! that would be impossible...  ) By the way is the REALMS_LIST still active???
I'll give you that Ed has 'perhaps' not detailed fully what the War Wizard hierarchy 'exactly' is, but I wouldn't go so far as to use words such as "adamantly maintained that War Wizards do not have a rank structure," as I've seen him put many titles to some wizard NPCs within his novels, especially in the case of Vangey...
Here's what I have anyhow:
Enlisted men:
Blade: Purple Dragon foot soldier (in archery units, this rank is alternatively called "Archer") (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Able Seaman"). „³ 2 sp/day
Senior Blade: may lead no more than a single squad of up to a 8 Blades (in archery units, this rank is known as "Senior Archer") (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Master Seaman"). „³ 4 sp/day (+1 sp/level above 2, above 4 if NPC class)
First Sword: may lead up to a platoon (3 squads each led by a Senior Blade, with an Acting First Sword serving as a second-in-command [2i/c]). (in archery units, this rank is known as "First Arrow", with an Acting First Arrow serving as a 2i/c) (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Petty Officer") „³ 6 sp/day (+2 sp/level above 3, above 5 if NPC class)
Swordcaptain: may lead up to a company; in Cormyr, a company is also referred to as a "kadrath" (3 platoons each led by a First Sword, with an Acting Swordcaptain 2i/c). (in archery units, this rank is known as "Arrowmaster") (in cavalry units, this rank designate a single mounted warrior and is known as "Rider": this is the lowest rank that will be given to a mounted horseman serving within the Purple Dragons - more time, training and money is involved in the training of mounted units, and the higher "base rank" reflects this) (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Coxswain") „³ 8 sp/day (+3 sp/level above 4, above 6 if NPC class)
Officers:
Lionar: may command up to a battalion (3 kadrathen each led by a Swordcaptain, with an Acting Lionar 2i/c and an additional Acting Lionar for general staffing purposes). Lionars leading an infantry battalion are also referred to as "Swordlords" and those leading battalions of pikemen or other polearm wielders are referred to as "Pikelords": these designations are only used on the battlefield and are mainly a means of differentiating the nature of each battalions (which simplifies and streamline tactical planning done by senior officers). Battalions composed exclusively of archers have not been known in Cormyr, and no need to come up with a similar designation has been identified so far: most battalions will have at most two archery companies used as a softening tool, with a third company composed of Blades located in front of the archers in preparation of the enemy -- in such cases, the Lionar in charge of such a battalion is still referred to either as "Swordlord" or "Pikelord", depending on the weapon used by the melee soldiers. (in cavalry units, this rank is referred to as a "Cavalier" and may command up to a lance composed of 12 Riders) (in aerial cavalry, "Cavaliers" do not lead anyone: similar to today's pilots, only officers are granted the privilege to fly, and the Cavalier is therefore the "base rank" for any rider mounted on a flying beast. Please note that Cormyr currently only employs hippogriff as flying steeds: other flying mounts can be accepted if trained to work alongside hippogriffs but in such rare cases they are the personal responsibility of their owners and are in no way shape or form funded or cared for by the military) (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Lieutenant") „³ 1 gp/day (+0.5 gp/level above 1)
Ornrion: may command up to a regiment (3 battalions each led by a Lionar, with an additional three Lionars for staff --> NOTE: no Acting ranks are given from this point because service as a 2i/c or staff is not a factor for promotion. Officer duties vary widely at this point, and promotion is given according to individual merit, circumstances, and leadership skills). (in cavalry units, may command up to a post composed of 3 lances, each led by a Cavalier --> this rank is also referred to as "Lancelord") (in aerial cavalry, may command up to a wing composed of 10 Cavaliers and their flying mounts) (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Commander") (War Wizard equivalent ---> War Wizard) „³ 1.5 gp/day (+0.5 gp/level above 1)
Constal: may command up to a brigade (3 regiments each led by an Ornrion, with an additional four Lionars for staff). (in cavalry units, may command up to a banner composed of 3 posts and supported by a staff of 3 Lancelords --> this rank is also referred to as "Bannermaster") (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Captain") (in aerial cavalry, may command a squadron composed of any amount of wings. This is the highest rank held by a Purple Dragon mounted on a flying mount) „³ 2.5 gp/day (+0.5 gp/level above 1)
Oversword: may command up to a division (3 brigades each led by a Constal, with an additional staff of 8 Lionars and two Ornrions). Starting from this point on, in regards to land or air forces, there are no differences in the Cormyrean ranking system: a Bannermaster or a Constal who receives a promotion will both be called an Oversword. Officers rarely fight from this point on anyway, and all Overswords usually ride to the battlefield anyhow, hence the consolidation in rank designation meant to prevent any confusion in the role of such individuals. (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Commodore") (War Wizard equivalent ---> Senior War Wizard) „³ 4 gp/day (+0.5 gp/level above 1)
Battlemaster: may command an army of any size, up to any number of divisions available to him/her (each led by an Oversword, with additional staff varying with the size of the army, usually a Constal and two Ornrions per division). (at sea, the equivalent rank is "Admiral") „³ 12 gp/day (+0.5 gp/level above 1)
Lord High Warden: has dominion over all forces found within his assigned marches, unless the Lord High Marshal or King himself is leading troops within his territory. This rank carries with it a noble peerage of no less than barony or earldom, should the local Marchion/Marchioness elect not to engage their own person into military affairs (please consult the ¡§Peers of Cormyr¡¨ document for more details on nobility). The Marchion/Marchioness of the said marches often takes upon the mantle of Lord High Warden him/herself, but if he/she elects not to, a Battlemaster is promoted to Lord High Warden and ennobled with the title of Baron/Baroness. If the Battlemaster is already a noble (with any title), he/she is elevated to the title of Earl/Countess. (War Wizard equivalent ---> Warden of the War Wizards) „³ 36 gp/day (+0.5 gp/level above 1)
Lord High Marshal: has dominion over all military forces within Cormyr. This rank carries with it a noble peerage of no less than a dukedom. (War Wizard equivalent ---> Royal Wizard (other War Wizards refer to him as ¡§High Wizard¡¨). He/she has dominion over all War Wizards within Cormyr. This title was previously held by Vangerdahast (now held by Caladnei) „³ 90 gp/day (+0.5 gp/level above 1)
(Clerics, bards and other spellcasters – including ‘citizen’ or ‘foreigner’ wizards or other types of arcane spellcasters not member of the War Wizards – that are in the service of the Crown are referred to as “specialists”, and hold no rank; they report to the Commanding Officer of the unit they are attached to and are paid 1 gp + 0.5 gp/total caster levels. A 10th level adventuring wizard hired by the Crown for a mission would be paid 5.5 gp/day.) |
Edited by - Purple Dragon Knight on 18 Feb 2007 12:01:08 |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2007 : 18:04:50
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| I certainly agree that the military has a military rank structure in Cormyr, but there is a reason Jerry hasn't posted a War Wizard organization structure document akin to the Perple dragon one. I'll try to find a link. |
"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2007 : 19:36:54
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quote:
That is not accurate as far as I know: there is indeed a hierarchy present within the War Wizards, and their own parallel system of ranks have equivalencies with the Purple Dragon system, so as to clearly indicate who will be in command should a commanding officer fall (as in the case of mixed units containing Purple Dragons, War Wizards, Royal Scouts, Highknights, Nobles, etc.)
There most certainly are *not* any formal ranks among the War Wizards (nor their more formal/former full title "Brotherhood of the Wizards of War"), save one: "alarphon," which are the internal police and investigators of the organization.
The only persons who are absolutely clear on their position within the War Wizards are Vangerdahast (now Caladnei) as leader, and technically outside the group; Laspeera as named second-in-command, whose position has not changed since Caladnei's assumption of leadership; and the alarphons, who outrank all, so having the authority to arrest, detain, or otherwise punish rogue/insane War Wizards, nobles, and Purple Dragon officers.
Ed's take on the War Wizards is specifically laid out in various posts in the Questions for Ed Greenwood from January 2005 (specifically, 9 Jan through 13 Jan), and is precisely the above: the War Wizards have no firm system of formal ranks, instead relying on assigned leadership in small, ever-shifting groups with rotating command based on assignment, task, and group composition.
This ever-shifting structure is what leads to both generalist ("good at everything") and specialist ("best at one thing") War Wizards. Some will focus on remaining adaptable, capable of handling most any assignment in the field given by the Mage Royal. Some might specialize in a school of magic, adopting the Master Specialist class (Complete Mage). Others will be spies (unseen seer and similar classes), while still others will be crafters, decipherers, spell researchers...
There are a great many specialists within the War Wizards. The War Wizard PrC, unfortunately, takes the literal interpretation of the organizations name and assumes that this is the primary specialty of the group. While it's true that some War Wizards will specialize in battlefield spellcasting and take this PrC (they are especially fond of the firebrand spell), it is by no means the case that the class represents even a signficant minority of War Wizards. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 02:06:31
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I'd just like to back up Garen Thal here: he has stated the War Wizards rank situation with perfect accuracy.
Sorry, Purple Dragon Knight, I don't know where those War Wizard equivalencies came from, in your post of the military ranks, but they are indeed spurious.
I checked with Ed to see if he's developed anything more on this or changed his mind, and he replied:
Nope. Some scribes (and indeed, some WotC designers) seem to ache with the powerful urge to assign a rank hierarchy to the Wizards of War. Some of them, worse yet, seem to want it to boil down to something akin to the modern, real-world U.S. military rank structure. However, it hasn't changed: except for the alarphons, Vangey (later Caladnei), Laspeera, and various "task-based titles" ("For this mission, Phaerland, Vangey wants you to call yourself Lord Spellbinder Most High - - but don't forget, when we're working on the Marsember thing, I'M Master Wizard of the Robes, and you're Underwizard Postulant!'). In other words, War Wizards may (with Caladnei's permission) assume any number of false titles to use when dealing with non-War Wizards (like stuffy nobles or Purple Dragon commanders), but they don't have any formal ranks at all.
They DO have experience and where they stand in Vangey's (later Caladnei's) favour, but although such factors may function informally as ranks do, they are not the same thing.
So saith Ed. Garen Thal is correct on this. Sorry, PDK.
love,
THO |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2007 : 02:10:59
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A postscript: Vangerdahast (and so, of course, now Caladnei) DOES have a number of formal court ranks and titles, of which the two main ones are: Court Wizard of Cormyr (sometimes styled Court Wizard of the Realm) and Royal Magician of Cormyr. Ed has explained elsewhere precisely what all of these court titles mean, but the point is that they are specific to the individual. One of them means in part "head of the War Wizards," but aside from that, they have no connection to the Wizards of War.
love to all,
THO |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 14:48:23
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Apologies to all scribes here, but I 'did' put a little disclaimer that this was my own homecampaign version!
I was indeed wrong, however, in assuming that there is a rank structure for the War Wizards. A thousand apologies to all!
NOTE: one reason I can recall for 'working the War Wizards within the existing hierarchy' was that I wanted to avoid, in my campaigns, the smartass player who elects to play a wizard 'to rule them all' and 'tell the party what to do.' I wanted to make it possible for a regular joe fighter to rise through the ranks, become a general and at some point, tell that War Wizard to 'pissoff!' |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 22:31:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
NOTE: one reason I can recall for 'working the War Wizards within the existing hierarchy' was that I wanted to avoid, in my campaigns, the smartass player who elects to play a wizard 'to rule them all' and 'tell the party what to do.' I wanted to make it possible for a regular joe fighter to rise through the ranks, become a general and at some point, tell that War Wizard to 'pissoff!'
Oh, there certainly are Purple Dragon battlemasters (and officers of oversword and even a few of lionar or swordcaptain rank) that can ignore the inquiries and directives of most War Wizards (though not Vangerdahast, Caladnei, Laspeera, alarphons, or any War Wizard bearing certain signs that mean 'I am speaking for the Crown, just now'). There are even a couple of First Swords and Telswords sprinkled among the Purple Dragons that can do so. These priveleged individuals, however, know full well who they are, and it's not a function of pure rank.
More than that, I cannot say. ;)
-G |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2007 : 23:34:19
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As a general comment, for broad groups like the War Wizards and the Red Wizards where there's a wide variation in roles and strengths, I think that Affiliations from the PHB2 are a better way to express broad membership in the group. Prestige classes are better for smaller, "single look" groups like the Red Sashes (for which the Vigilante prestige class is perfect) and for roles (like a ninja).
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2007 : 23:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
There are even a couple of First Swords and Telswords sprinkled among the Purple Dragons that can do so. These priveleged individuals, however, know full well who they are, and it's not a function of pure rank.
More than that, I cannot say. ;)
-G
Yeah, yeah... tease us with more upcoming "Azounian-bastard" secrets and intrigues!!!
First Swords: check. Got that in my homespun ranking chart...
Telswords?!?!?!? Tell me more!  |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2007 : 05:10:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
There are even a couple of First Swords and Telswords sprinkled among the Purple Dragons that can do so. These priveleged individuals, however, know full well who they are, and it's not a function of pure rank.
More than that, I cannot say. ;)
-G
Yeah, yeah... tease us with more upcoming "Azounian-bastard" secrets and intrigues!!!
First Swords: check. Got that in my homespun ranking chart...
Telswords?!?!?!? Tell me more!
Actually, this has nothing at all to do with royal bastards (of any of the Azouns, nor any Obarskyr). It has to do with the fact that certain servants of the Crown--regardless of ranks or hierarchies--are implicitly trusted more by the authorities of the Dragon Throne, but (for whatever reason) hold inferior official rank unless they have to whip out a royal writ in dire circumstances.
Telswords are the equivalent of the "senior blade" rank in your hierarchy (one which I assigned as a placeholder on the REALMS-L until an official rank was established--which happened in Power of Faerûn). They're usually just referred to as 'swords;' thus the superior rank of First Sword. |
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War Wizard of Cormyr
