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Thangorn
Seeker
New Zealand
84 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2007 : 00:29:41
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I'm sure someone has already asked this..
I've checked my library for a reference but I need to ask the esteemed Sages of Candlekeep for assistance.
My questions -:
1. What are some uniquely Faerunian gambling pursuits, including those of the demi-human races? Particularly Zhentil Keep if you know of any..
2. What sourcebooks or other reference material should I pore through to get some background info on this?
Thank you
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Ex-A Land Far Away (ALFA) DM/Builder
Faerunian Canon Despot |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2007 : 00:41:26
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There's also Faraer's short listing of games, some of which are gambling related:-
"Here's the list (which doesn't have the Aurora's ones) that I've posted before:
Card games: Archers, Chase the Dragon*, High Dragon, Old Wizard, Smashcastle, Strikedragon/Battles, Swords, Swords and Shields, talis card games
Dice games: thabort, Traitors’ Heads, Wheel-of-Spells*
Board games: chess and variants (lanceboard), chethlachance, fiveknights, lancers and lions, shirestone
Other games: jacks, shove-skittles, tag, Toss the Dagger
* might be mixed up as to which is card, which dice"
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2007 : 07:13:11
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| I know there are some gambling games detailed in a couple of the Volo guides, but these might be on Faraers list. I will check later and add them if needed. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2007 : 21:50:16
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My favorite Realms game an elven game called kholiast, described in Elves of Evermeet. It's a popular game that "involves a deck of more than 1000 cards, a variable-sized hand based on a throw of dice, and a point-counting system that would drive even the most dedicated Candlekeep scholar completely mad."
No, I've never tried to come up with rules for it, but I have had my players see it being played. I've imagined it like poker, except that everyone bets at once, the action's always moving, and cards are continually being drawn and discarded.
There was also a dice game described in the story part of a Dark Sun adventure, using all of the standard D&D dice. I'll go hunt that one up for you. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2007 : 22:34:52
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OK, the game is called Hawke's Gambit, and if anyone is interested, it's found in the story included with the Dark Sun adventure Merchant House of Amketch.
The game consists of six passes in one round. In each pass players roll a combination of dice, starting with the d4 and adding the next smallest die. Before the dice are rolled, each player antes a number of coins (your choice, the story used ceramic, which I think are about the equivalent of silver in a normal game) equal to the total number of dice sides being rolled (so 4 in Pass 1, 10 in Pass 2, 18 in Pass 3, etc.). Whoever gets the highest point total wins the pot. Ties split the pot equally. Everyone's point totals are remembered (and no memory aids allowed), to be used in Hawke's Gambit.
In the final pass, in addition to betting on the outcome of rolling all six D&D dice (d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20 for a total wager of 60 coins), the players can enter Hawke's Gambit: betting that they will have the highest point total of the round. Any amount can be wagered, provided the bet is met. Once the final roll is made and Hawke's Gambit is settled, the round ends and a new round begins, starting off with rolling just the d4 with a wager of 4 coins. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 11:59:53
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There is a mention of chess in the novel Cormyr:a Novel the first book of the Cormyr trilogy. The Chessboard was an original back and white coloured and the pieces was black and white.
The white ones represented the forces of Cormyr with guard towers, war wizzards and purple dragon knights on horse, a King and Queen , and the black pieces represented the forces of some evil (perhaps the witch king army?) with dragons and death priests.
The game was played inside the castle on 2 occasions , the first beetween 2 war-wizzards and the second beetween King Azoun IV and Lord Wyvernspur.
Minor sp?: on the first occasion the chessboard was used by a harper agent to spy the war-wizzards while she was magically polymorphed into the white queen
From the novel resources Chess seems to be vary popular in Cormyr among Royal Noble and Military persons. A hintbook for chess tactics is also mentioned, as well as the personal tactic of Azoun IV but i will speak no further (really the book is great and worth every penny and minute of reading) |
Edited by - Marquant Volker on 01 Feb 2007 11:17:36 |
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Weiser_Cain
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 12:29:19
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| Adventuring |
I'm always the Wizard! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 16:01:06
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According to my story in Realms of the Elves, "The Greater Treasure":
A card game popular on the Dragon Coast and the Moonsea region (which includes Zhentil Keep) is called Lafat, which involves positioning cards like units of soldiers in an 8x8 card spread, seeking to flank and capture your opponent's cards. Different cards have different strengths in different combinations and positions. Some cards are martial, some magical, some more offensive and some more defensive.
You can think of it as a "Magic: the Gathering in the Realms" sort of game.
(Now that I think about it, the gameplay is rather more similar to the mini-game in Final Fantasy 9, actually -- which is odd to me since I didn't really like that game, yet I made up Lafat. Huh.)
Cheers
P.S. Bonus points to anyone who can tell me where the name comes from. As I recall, it was something clever -- or perhaps just silly. ;) |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 19:39:48
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I've been thinking about that chess set shown in Cormyr: The Novel, and I've been wondering something. Think that a chess set with the Red and Purple Dragons might exist in Cormyr?  |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 23:12:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I've been thinking about that chess set shown in Cormyr: The Novel, and I've been wondering something. Think that a chess set with the Red and Purple Dragons might exist in Cormyr?
I'll bet it would make a mint! 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 07:10:32
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| Or blue and purple and give it a naval theme. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 11:23:08
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I red somewhere that Followers of the Red Knight play games in Crimson and White colours, sometimes they are using persons to represend pieces and the board has the size of a room, its a kind of ceremonial game
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 01 Feb 2007 11:24:55 |
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Thangorn
Seeker
New Zealand
84 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 12:41:23
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Thanks everyone,
I'm taking all this information in as I flesh out the Holy Hall of Good Fortune and Casino, the Church of Tymora in Zhentil Keep. Any info on rules and things like that would be great.
The thing is, I and my compatriots are attempting to build a living breathing version of Zhentil Keep for our online Neverwinter Nights 2 campaign. If you are interested in checking in our progress.. follow this link http://moonsea.stene.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=259
Its also good to know for my home pen'n'paper campaign as one of the party is a frequent gambler..
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Ex-A Land Far Away (ALFA) DM/Builder
Faerunian Canon Despot |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 21:01:55
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In Volo's Guide to Cormy there are listed 3 games:
Toss the dagger, Traitor's heads and Swords and Shields.
For more info check the above mentioned sourcebook, around p. 160 IIRC. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36861 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 21:56:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
In Volo's Guide to Cormy there are listed 3 games:
Toss the dagger, Traitor's heads and Swords and Shields.
For more info check the above mentioned sourcebook, around p. 160 IIRC.
And that sourcebook is one of the many free ones available from the Wizards downloads page. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36861 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 21:58:16
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| There was a dice game called "Thabort" described in the 2E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting boxed set. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Feb 2007 21:58:54 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 00:15:41
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Actually Thangorn, getting back to your original question, as I recall... Ruins of Zhentil Keep references a few gambling games and games of chance that feature as "regular" forms of entertainment in various locations throughout the city.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 07 Feb 2007 00:16:57 |
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Aniviel Aelinetriel
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 05:16:28
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Concerning Kholiast
Channeling the rules makes a fine summer project, one that I have undertaken. My parents always made fun of me for coming up with games that seemed too difficult (but Uno is difficult for my mom!) If that is the case, she won't stand a chance at Kholiast. The project began during a warm Midsummer's evening while I was meditating. I took notes...very detailed notes... Coliast can be played with as few as two or three players, and it is only then when it is in its simplest form, because the more players you add, the more cards and dice that become involved and the wilder the game becomes.
I've never tried this outside of Elven lands, but gathering a table of 10 or 12 would make for one wild night of revelry that is about as spontaneous as music in a tavern. I enjoy playing with three, it is far more exciting than two, but still quite manageable for humans to learn. Come now, humans have developed more complex games (ever tried to take up bridge?)
The objective is simple...be the first to rid him/herself of the 12 cards dealt by playing to any or all of three foundation piles. Sounds so simple, right? Ent! Each foundation plays by its own rules, and the middle one is dictated by the fate of dice (of course, we use 12-siders!) This may sound similar to Skip-Bo, but with one CRUCIAL difference. See, the colors on the Skip-Bo cards mean NOTHING, whereas in Coliast they mean EVERYTHING. Green cards do nothing special, but any other color causes action to be taken that directly affects one or all of the players! These colored cards need no announcement, they spring up when least expected during the normal course of play. For instance... green 1, green 2, RED 3! BLUE 4!!! PURPLE 5!!!!! The whole forest groans..Now you are sitting pretty with three cards in your hand while all of your opponents have 17, except for one unfortunate soul who has 20! And this is a simple example.
Intrigued?
I have a rules document that discusses all the ins and outs of the basic game, so please email me at howe2610@pacificu.edu. The document also includes checklists detailing exactly what cards go into the deck. I also have checklists made through the 6th-player subset, and more to come soon. I am, after all, a college student. |
Laughter and Light |
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Aniviel Aelinetriel
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 05:30:17
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P.S.
Another thing I forgot to mention... besides the sources already given, I cannot point to any others (of this realm) becase no one has dared to write any more than what those meager sources tell us. I think it's for two reasons.
1. Kholiast was believed to be (according to these authors) too difficult for humans to learn.
2. Why spend the time developing a "fictitious" game whn (see above)?
A project like this does not lend itself well to canon sources. |
Laughter and Light |
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Thangorn
Seeker
New Zealand
84 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2007 : 12:21:29
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quote:
Actually Thangorn, getting back to your original question, as I recall... Ruins of Zhentil Keep references a few gambling games and games of chance that feature as "regular" forms of entertainment in various locations throughout the city.
Nice catch Sage. How could I miss that one O_o |
Ex-A Land Far Away (ALFA) DM/Builder
Faerunian Canon Despot |
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Gambling Pursuits of the Realms
