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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jan 2007 : 05:01:13
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How much space do you think I'd need to allocate for a gnoll tribe, a kobold tribe and a goblin tribe? 3 square miles each? 10? More?
It would be in wood covered hills, mountains, etc. It will be an area where it's pretty easy to find food.
Any thoughts on this? Anyone have an idea where I could find the info?
Thanks
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2007 : 05:38:24
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| depends on how big the tribes are ie larger the tribe more roaming for food = more conflict with neighbours |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 17:04:42
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Indeed, the tribe levels are looking like;
Roughly 200-350 gnolls (combat and noncombat types)
Roughly 400-500 goblins (combat and noncombat)
Roughly 500 or so kobolds (combat and noncombat)
Relatively peaceful relations between the tribes until recently when an all out war broke out between the three. Like I said, food isn't a big problem, the area they are in is pretty bountifull. They don't have their own metal production and they don't do anything more than light agriculture. They have the ability to trade with slavers at an old ruined port, mostly for weapons and armor (and this is how the war between the tribes started, they all used to trade with the slavers but the gnolls recently ambushed the goblin and kobold trading groups and took their slaves and such and traded all of them to the slavers, with their edges {surprise and better weaponry} they pressed the kobolds and goblins back pretty easily)
The tribes are located in hilly and mountainous woodlands. (specifically to the east of Gildenglade) |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 20:32:50
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| The geography that you're describing sounds like the NE U.S. (sans the continental plain). Considering estimations of Native American populations (pre-European colonization), I would tend to believe that you could fit this all in a reasonably confined space. Where this place might exist in the Realms is beyond me. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2007 : 21:01:32
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Well, the region I'm setting my game is is the eastern shore of the lake of drifting stars in Turmish (to the east of gildenglade)
I've just been trying to figure out if I have enough space for what I want to go on or if I should shift things a bit further east ;)
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2007 : 19:14:29
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If you want to look at histroical earth averages for population density, a google search can probably give you what to know. I uncovered this gem with mine:
quote:
According to historical and ethnographic studies, the density of hunter-gatherer populations has ranged from an estimated 1.15 inhabitants per square kilometer for the Amerinds of pre-conquest western North America, to 0.15 inhabitants per square kilometer registered in the 1960s among the Kung Bushmen of the Kalahari Desert of Botswana in southern Africa.
This eight-fold difference between the two populations, which share a very similar technology and social organization, can only be explained by considering the diversity of their habitats. In this example, the limiting factor is water.
Now, if you assume that a gnoll eats about as much as a human, and that goblin would take up about 50% (being a small creature) and that a kobold (being both small and a reptile) might require about 25% of the food as a human, that leaves us with a population density of 1.15 per square mile for your gnolls, 2.3 per square mile for your goblins and 4.6 per square mile for your kobolds.
A little math then shows us that your gnolls need a hunting range of approx 300 square miles (or say a region that's 15 miles wide by 20 miles long). Your goblins need 225 square miles, and your kobolds need just over 100 square miles. This estime assumes that all of the hunting range in productive woodland with a reasonably thriving ecology. Ruins, mountains and ravaged land in any part of the hunting range will require proportionaly more space.
Personally, I think the region you're describing should work well for the three tribes you've outlined, but I'm not sure how far from the Lake of Drifting Stars you're planning to go.
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"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 04:01:38
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| Good math, however the area can be reduced because Realms/D&D creatures do not need to eat as much as humans. The areas could be cut in half to 1/3. Further of course the tribes good have some domesticated animals for food, perhaps a few rare ones even farm, that could reduce area needed as well. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 08:06:36
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| I would agree that their daily intake would be less then an Amerind, but because their diet is more carnivorous then the average human you have to allow for that. I think maybe an even 1 per sq. for gnolls, 3 for Goblins, and 5 per sq. mile for the kobolds. whole numbers are easier, and I don't think there would be that much difference for the kobolds because although they are smaller they are most likey 100% carnivores. (although they might eat bugs... really BIG fantasy bugs). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 08:26:01
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quote:
originally posted by Markustay
I would agree that their daily intake would be less then an Amerind, but because their diet is more carnivorous then the average human you have to allow for that. I think maybe an even 1 per sq. for gnolls, 3 for Goblins, and 5 per sq. mile for the kobolds. whole numbers are easier, and I don't think there would be that much difference for the kobolds because although they are smaller they are most likey 100% carnivores. (although they might eat bugs... really BIG fantasy bugs).
Well, I seem to remember seeing mentioned that the goblins will eat anything though they prefer meat. I would think most of the goblinoids (barring the Bugbear maybe) are omnivores and able to survive on roots and underground mushrooms if necessary. That would make them able to survive in greater numbers within an area if pressured, even if they would move on to better hunting-rounds (meat-wise) if they could.
Of course, if there was a deepspawn located not to far away the whole ecological system would change and large amounts of prey could conceivably be found within an area. |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 15:38:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Good math, however the area can be reduced because Realms/D&D creatures do not need to eat as much as humans.
Just curious where you came up with that information? Why would a gnoll, described as a 6-7' tall humanoid that survives by hunting, would need less food to survive than a human whose a nomadic, hunter-gather. Both creatures have a simular size, diet and (presumably) energy output due to nomadic lifestyle.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Further of course the tribes good have some domesticated animals for food, perhaps a few rare ones even farm, that could reduce area needed as well.
Certainly any form of agriculture would allow for more bodies per square mile. That goes without saying.
However, the OP made it clear that none of the tribes did "anything more than light agriculture." Given the OP's stated preference for information on hunter gather population density, that's what I provided. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 16:28:59
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Thanks a bunch guys, a lot of good thinking going on :)
Halidin, I hadn't even thought properly about area, I was thinking straight lines rather than square miles so I wasn't sure I'd be able to fit that in the area. Stupid brain ;) Thanks for thinking about it rationally, got me doing the same *g*
As for how far these tribes roam, they cross the mountains (the Aphrunn) to trade slaves (taken from Turmish) with Nimpethian slavers for good steel weapons and armor. The semi plot hook there is that the Gnolls have decided to take over the whole trade and ambushed the kobold and goblin trading parties to take and trade both the slaves the gnolls had caputured and the slaves the kobolds and goblins captured. They framed the kobolds for taking the goblin slaves, prompting the goblins to attack the kobolds and then the gnolls fell upon the goblin flank and have successfully pushed both tribes out of their original areas (thus forcing them towards more civilized Turmish, which, coincidentally enough, is where my PCs are located!)
Anyhow, I didn't want to overpopulate the area because that would have been lame :) |
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Amount of space needed for humanoid tribes
