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Paj
Seeker
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 10:59:08
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I thought id ask this question here and get some answers from you scribes before I nagged Ed over in his scroll.
I got up for work this morning at 9am and it was dark, cold and wet. And now, especially as its winter here in England, its dark after 4pm on a night.
Does Toril have similar events as we do? i.e. it gets dark earlier during the winter months and stays light later in summer months.
And if so, what effect do you think this would have on say a)A party of adventurers and b)on a Merchant Caravan travelling during those times when its dark much earlier in the afternoon than usual? Would they press on until later in the evening? or simply camp as soon as its dark, effectively increasing travel time to a location.
Basically, does the fact that during certain periods in a year the sun sets earlier or later in the day affect how people travel to and from locales?
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Ateth Istarlin
Seeker
United Kingdom
80 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 12:12:07
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Considering how dangerous the Realms can be - I would say caravan masters would prefer to err on the side of caution and not risk their charges by pushing on in the dark unless they had no choice |
The more I read about 4FR, the more depressed I am.
Politician - An elected official who tries to be all things to all people, while always looking out for his/her own interests first. |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 13:38:44
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| IMHO, if you would like to see a reasonably realistic deptiction of long-range travel in a midieval/fantasy setting, I highly recommend reading The Eye of the World book 1 of the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. While they often travel at night, it is often only to preserve their lives. It discusses saddle soreness, the rigors of sleeping outdoors, getting lost, and the dangers of riding horses at night (much more probable that they will turn a hoof). |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 14:07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Paj
I got up for work this morning at 9am and it was dark, cold and wet. And now, especially as its winter here in England, its dark after 4pm on a night.
Does Toril have similar events as we do? i.e. it gets dark earlier during the winter months and stays light later in summer months.
Ed has said in the past, that Toril's axis tilt and rotation is similar to that of Earth's. So, aspects like time zone delineations and day/night changeovers in the Realms, should be relatively similar to that of Earth.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 13 Dec 2006 14:08:41 |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 15:06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Paj
I thought id ask this question here and get some answers from you scribes before I nagged Ed over in his scroll.
I got up for work this morning at 9am and it was dark, cold and wet. And now, especially as its winter here in England, its dark after 4pm on a night.
Does Toril have similar events as we do? i.e. it gets dark earlier during the winter months and stays light later in summer months.
And if so, what effect do you think this would have on say a)A party of adventurers and b)on a Merchant Caravan travelling during those times when its dark much earlier in the afternoon than usual? Would they press on until later in the evening? or simply camp as soon as its dark, effectively increasing travel time to a location.
Basically, does the fact that during certain periods in a year the sun sets earlier or later in the day affect how people travel to and from locales?
It would probably depend somewhat on where in the Realms you were. Sea travel would certainly be affected. If I remember correctly one of Waterdeep's festivals celebrates the start of the shipping season, and it certainly wouldn't be safe to move ships in northern waters at some times of year. That would be less true further south, unless there are some seasons where bad weather is predictable - a monsoon wind might keep ships in port for months, and it wouldn't be safe to travel in hurricane season. River transport is obviously impossible if the river is frozen, and even if there's drifting ice in it.
For overland travel a merchant caravan would also be best suited to moving in summer or autumn if you were in the North. Travel in winter requires specialised equipment such as sleds, which wouldn't be worthwhile for most merchants. At other times of the year you have to consider the expense of feeding your animals, which would be highest in winter and spring when there's less fodder available.
Conversely, in the South I'd expect travel to be more popular in cooler months, when climate was less of a factor. There would be advantages to avoiding the hottest times of the year in terms of fatigue and providing water for your stock.
I could imagine a sort of divide between the Northern trade season in the Summer and the Southern trade season in Winter, with limited overlap between them and the division being either North or South of Athkatla. That would give merchants who tried to do both a reason to arrive in Athkatla in the spring with a cargo of Southern trade goods, they would move North selling these and replacing them with Northern goods which they would take between Northern cities, then arrive in Athkatla some time in Autumn with a cargo of Northern goods to transport to cities in Tethyr and Calimshan. Whether sea travel would work the same way is another question, which I don't have the information to answer.
I'd also suggest that adventurers probably wouldn't be affected by this as much. They do have a lot of means to avoid the worst effects of weather and climate, and if they really want to could move around in almost ny conditions. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 15:33:13
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| i'll allways seen it as, that Icewind Dale is touching the Actic Circle about halfway between Ten towns and the northen coasts and that the Equator is somewhere near the coast of Halruaa |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 16:20:41
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| well, concerning the travel - as the winter month are very hard with lots of snow and harsh snow storms and such (at least in the northern parts of Faerun) the trade would stop anyway, as has been mentioned in more than a few sources. That is - sun light does not really matter, it is the snowy and muddy roads that keep the caravans away in the first place. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 20:52:26
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Ed's novel HAND OF FIRE describes many details of caravan travel in the Realms. Worth a read.
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 23:52:52
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Aren't there aerial ways of transportation available in the realms (at least in Lantan I've seen references of airships). These could provide the northern regions some ways of import. If the baloons or airships action radia would be sufficient...
Are these airships even known in the regions outside Lantan? |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 00:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Are these airships even known in the regions outside Lantan?
Halruaa. |
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boards
Acolyte
Australia
33 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 01:08:16
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| The skyships struggle in high wind areas, so they would not be used in areas that get winter storms like the North. I think it has been mentioned that whenever a new magic is discovered that helps flying objects a Halruaan ship will appear, other that Halruaa doesnt share her ship flying technology/magic. |
Edited by - boards on 14 Dec 2006 01:13:58 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 01:24:24
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| They're also insanely expensive to build and maintain, especially compared to things like wagons and horses. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 01:37:27
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| I was really surprised that they sold some of the skyships to the lizardmen in the forest, according to 3/3.5e's Shining South. And of course, in 2e Zakhara material one of the skyships was stolen and taken to Zakhara. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 14 Dec 2006 01:38:13 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 02:15:42
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Indeed. As I recall, the older Shining South tome tells us that the Halruaans guard the secrets of their skyships most zealously. As such, I think that you'd probably find that Halruaan wizards have indeed been assigned to "watch over" the skyships given over to the lizardmen -- both as a security measure (to prevent the secrets of the ship from being lost) and to deny the lizardmen from using the skyships in anyway they see fit.
Thus, I would tend to think that while skyships have been sold to the lizardmen, it's actually more about providing Halruaa with an added layer of defense for the region, and less about them being used in battle by the lizardmen. Afterall, the wizards of Halruaa likely wouldn't consider their treasured skyships, being the valuable military assets that they are, to be something wasted in "just any old battle." They would therefore, I believe, tend to select places of strategic importance around Halruaa itself, which would provide Halruaan armies deployed to such locations, with rapid troop transports and supply convoys, against threats on the borders of their realms, when required.
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Dec 2006 02:20:39 |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 13:35:11
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Isnīt there a scroll somewhere around candlekeep where the topic of "halruaan skyships vs. spelljammers" has been discussed?
Afaik, spelljamming ships are way more reliable(1) and fast(2) than halruaan skyships.
(1) i.e. no problems with high winds, no recharging the battery...
(2) I think it was something along the lines of 30mph per level of the helmsman, but Iīm not sure. And that doesnīt even include the "orbit-hopping"- strategy for longer travels (I donīt want to include interplanetary travel here) - go into orbit, quickly around the planet and go down wherever you want to - it takes only minutes or at most a few hours to travel from halruaa to waterdeep, zakhara or kara tur!
The only downside is that for manning a spelljammer 24/7, you need at least 3 mages/clerics/etc.. I donīt really see an Halruaan Elder emptying his arcane spells on manning a ījammer, so (s)he would need low level mages powering the helm. But that shouldnīt be much of a problem.
Imo, it boils down to finding good reasons for why Halruaan continue to use their inferior skyships.
Tradition: maybe itīs a cultural thing: they are so proud of them that anyone using spelljammers is heavily looked down upon. Alternatively, they might despise the way a spelljammer helm deprives a mages/cleric of his/her magical potential.
the problem with tradition is that there should be people who are pragmatic enough to use spelljammers anyway - and even if they would be the black sheep of the upper society, their gains would be quite huge. just consider using a spelljammer for trading, high-speed delivering, etc... more reliable than teleport (and Auroraīs warehouses show what a difference one spell makes)...
secret defence: perhaps there are magical defences over the nations airspace that prevent spelljamming? ...ok, thatīs a bit far-fetched, but weīve seen large magical effects on faerun before.
...thoughts?
p.s.: sorry for hijacking the thread! perhaps we should open a new scroll? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 14:43:46
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At least one Halruaan skyship has been fitted with a spelljamming helm...
From a design standpoint, I can see why skyships are preferred: they lack the "sci-fi" feel some attribute to spelljammers, and they are a more logical extension of magical travel. Plus, skyships have been in the Realms for years, long before Spelljammer was introduced.
From a cultural standpoint... Halruaa was founded by Netherese refugees. The Netherese had explored spelljamming, and decided it wasn't for them. Plus, skyships may take a lot more time and effort to create, but they are solely the province of the Halruaans. Spelljamming ships can be built by anyone, but the secret of making the helms remains a secret of the Arcane (or Mercane, as they seem to now be called). Sticking with skyships means you're sticking with a local creation, with local technology. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 14:54:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
At least one Halruaan skyship has been fitted with a spelljamming helm...
'Tis Random Riellor's skyship.
quote:
Spelljamming ships can be built by anyone, but the secret of making the helms remains a secret of the Arcane (or Mercane, as they seem to now be called). Sticking with skyships means you're sticking with a local creation, with local technology.
There's also the added advantage, through the local creation/local technology aspect, of skyship owners having relatively easy access to the knowledge necessary for repairing the magical rods that control each skyship. That is, in comparison to the difficulty one would experience when trying to repair either a spelljammer and/or their associated helms... since dealing with with the Arcane/Mercane may possibly end up costing you more than you originally planned! 
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Dec 2006 14:55:43 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2006 : 15:19:29
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This is one of the great imaginative leaps people in first-world countries have to make to a time without electric light or gaslight, easy food preservation and all the other things which lessen the effects of the seasons in the modern world. (And no British Summer Time!)
In towns, those effects are moderated, but for most people, life revolves with the seasons.
As has been said, much less trade (and war, and adventuring) takes place over the winter. |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
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Travel in the Realms
