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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 01:01:37
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I'm wondering if the reclamation of Myth Drannor has origins in the destruction of Hellgate Keep by Khelben and his Moonstars. Without the destruction of Hellgate Keep, we have no daemonfey or fey'ri. Nor do we have a (modern) understanding of the powers of the Gatekeepers Crystal. Could this have been Khelben's plan all along - the unification of both goodies and baddies to result in the re-founding of his city of birth? Nice legacy to leave if it was ... not to mention, his 'other' city. When will Myth Drannor and Rhymanthiin become 'sister cities' I wonder ...?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 04:39:33
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I'm wondering if the reclamation of Myth Drannor has origins in the destruction of Hellgate Keep by Khelben and his Moonstars. Without the destruction of Hellgate Keep, we have no daemonfey or fey'ri. Nor do we have a (modern) understanding of the powers of the Gatekeepers Crystal. Could this have been Khelben's plan all along - the unification of both goodies and baddies to result in the re-founding of his city of birth? Nice legacy to leave if it was ... not to mention, his 'other' city. When will Myth Drannor and Rhymanthiin become 'sister cities' I wonder ...?
-- George Krashos
George, you naughty channeler of Alaundo, you.....  
Steven
who wanders away whistling the tune of "Sweet NDA of Life, At Last I Found You...."
PS: Sometimes you're too good a Realms guru for your own good... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 15:03:01
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Once again, George, your my hero!!!
That was a great logical stringing together of the storylines! I love it when things can be strung together where they make sense! I hate contradictory info in the Realms storyline. Great Job and thanks for sharing your insights!
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ShadowJack |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 17:55:45
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| niiice |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 20:18:44
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First of all I would like to say, "Dude, that is ingenius!" Second I would say, "I definitely can't wait to see where that string of logic goes." Just when you think the realms is done changing a new twist happens and the next adventure starts. Awesome!  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 11:19:38
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| Excellent, George. Now, the only problem will be discover exactly how NDA you have find. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 15:04:02
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The question that's bugging me now is... When the events at Hellgate Keep were first written, is this what the original writers had in mind, or was this a retcon?
Even if it was a retcon, its still totally awesome. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
Edited by - WalkerNinja on 17 Nov 2006 15:05:02 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 15:16:39
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Wasn't Hellgate destroyed prior to the Moonstar's founding?
I have to admit the idea is frighteningly good, but wasn't it 2 Harper agents? Or 3?
The only info I know about Hellgate's destruction came from the dungeon crawl module... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 17:04:16
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Page 28 of Cloak & Dagger, under the Mistmaster entry:
quote:
Some speculate if one of the first actions of the Moonstars was the destruction of Hellgate Keep by the Gatekeeper’s Crystal, given the cryptic Mistmaster’s presence among the senior Tel’Teukiira.
On page 26, it says:
quote:
While the group only became active in the current Year of the Tankard (1370), the Tel’Teukiira has its true origins far in the past.
So it's easy to assume that the Moonstars existed as a very small group prior to 1370, but it was then that Khelben said "Hey, guys, let's recruit some new folks and call ourselves the Moonstars." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Nov 2006 17:05:15 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 17:10:43
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Maybe the Mistmaster was among Khelben's first recruits/supporters, but it was Harpers who aided and gave their lives in the destruction of Hellgate Keep.
I can see where this is leading and it is plausible, plus a secret society is not formed at the spur of the moment. So the plan might well have been a long term one, with goading the Harpers into Hellgate Keep's destruction due to the lack of own people as the first step. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 17:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Maybe the Mistmaster was among Khelben's first recruits/supporters, but it was Harpers who aided and gave their lives in the destruction of Hellgate Keep.
I can see where this is leading and it is plausible, plus a secret society is not formed at the spur of the moment. So the plan might well have been a long term one, with goading the Harpers into Hellgate Keep's destruction due to the lack of own people as the first step.
Yes, current lore states the Harpers did it but Steven has said the Moonstars were involved. Of course, his replies on the subject aren't technically canon/official. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 20:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes, current lore states the Harpers did it but Steven has said the Moonstars were involved. Of course, his replies on the subject aren't technically canon/official.
But they tend to be good enough for me. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 20:29:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes, current lore states the Harpers did it but Steven has said the Moonstars were involved. Of course, his replies on the subject aren't technically canon/official.
But they tend to be good enough for me.
Heh... Look at it this way: Membership in those organizations isn't mutually exclusive. Sure, Harpers did it -- but nothing says those Harpers weren't also Moonstars.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 20:35:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes, current lore states the Harpers did it but Steven has said the Moonstars were involved. Of course, his replies on the subject aren't technically canon/official.
But they tend to be good enough for me.
Heh... Look at it this way: Membership in those organizations isn't mutually exclusive. Sure, Harpers did it -- but nothing says those Harpers weren't also Moonstars.
On a similar note, some real world terrorist organisations will claim to have been behind an attack/siege/robbery etc and not actually have been involved. I know 'we' know it was the harpers, but remember in other bits of lore some organisation could claim to be behind something they're not, and vice-versa.
Also could someone remind when Khelben actually left the harpers? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 21:06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes, current lore states the Harpers did it but Steven has said the Moonstars were involved. Of course, his replies on the subject aren't technically canon/official.
But they tend to be good enough for me.
As good for me as well. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 21:49:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
Also could someone remind when Khelben actually left the harpers?
Tarsakh 22, 1370 (the Year of the Tankard). Page 14 of Cloak & Dagger. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Nov 2006 21:50:21 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 22:59:13
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You know, I was just thinking... Khelben's actions, the ones leading up to the Harper Schism, really helped out Fzoul. Fzoul got stronger, and went around making Xvim stronger -- which lead to Bane's return. The Zhentarim also came out of the deal stronger than they had been...
So, in a way, Khelben is responsible for Bane's return and Zhentil Keep becoming stronger.
We also know that Khelben is willing to use evil folks to accomplish good ends. There's evil Moonstars, and we saw him use evil folks in Blackstaff.
Here's some speculation: We know that the upcoming Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave adventure features Shar and Cyric doing bad things to Mystra. Bane hates Cyric... And Shar's goal of destroying everything would interfere with Bane trying to be a tyrant over everything. So it's possible that Bane and/or the Zhents will be part of the adventure, working against Cyric and Shar.
Wouldn't it be interesting if part of Khelben's goals involved setting up this situation where Bane helped defeat the goals of Cyric and Shar, thus preserving Mystra and the Weave?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Thanking the Moonstars
