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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 01:10:11
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Just finished off the second section of the book, and there were a lot of intruiging things in it (not the least of which was Mask, ironically enough). Since I alluded to it, the appearance of Mask was wonderful. I even loved how Cale referred to it later, when he thought about how his god has knife fights in alleys with his servants. I have some thoughts of what Mask was talking about, but honestly, with everything that is up in the air, I could be completely off base. I did like how just when Cale thought how much like a human Mask was, Mask decided to show him just what gods are made of, so to speak.
I have started to think that Elyril's talking dog, faces in furniture, and various and sundry other voices and visions are more a product of her addiction and less about Shar's revelations to her. Which makes it more interesting to me that I think that her demigod playmate is actually real, and my suspicion is that he might have something to do with someone that has just started to be mentioned again in this section, but for anyone else that might not have drawn the same conclusion, I'll not go into too much detail. Plus, I could be dead wrong anyway.
I was going to ask if the poor growing season was STILL going on from the ROTAW books, but I get the feeling now that the poor crops have more to do with dragons and the Rain of Fire than with the Shadovar and their climatic changes. I was mainly wondering because I didn't think that Cormyr and the Dalelands were still suffering under the same strange weather, but if I'm off on this, I would be interested to find out.
Cale's refusal to see the good that he does is still being portrayed very well. I like the fact that he dwells on the fact that he is not a good man, but he isn't be scrupulous, he really has done some bad things, and enjoyed some unfortunately neccissary things a bit too much (oh, and I loved that Mask didn't seem to care that Cale stabbed him, but when he twisted the dagger, he got indignant). It makes him much more interesting to know that there really is some bad to dwell on, and that he isn't just blowing things out of proportion.
As far as the constant 2 and 2 are four comment, in this section of the book it really struck me in a different way for the first time that I heard it. In many ways (and I think this is how Cale is taking it) it seems like it suggests that there is little free will, and what you are is what you are, and you can't change it. But after the conversatoin with Varra, it strikes me that it means a lot more than that. It meast that you are the sum total of your experiences and the things that you have let touch you. Cale is only going to be "complete" (or should I say solved?) when he assimilates everything that he is and has been. This doesn't mean that he can't change to do something new (like becoming a husband), it means that he has to be able to accept each thing that has made him who he is, not deny it, and use it to . . . uh . . . solve for X as it were. The fact that Varra has been part of his life and has touched him means she is part of the equaision now, and he has to include her in the total number that he is. But hey, its just an observation, and that doesn't mean that the sum total of what he is isn't going to drive him to a certain point, only that once he reaches that point, he won't fully be in control of the situation until he knows what his number is. Its less about predestination and more about knowing who and what you are. But that's just my take on this.
I find it kind of interesting that the "good guys" in the story are learning more and more that they won't be whole or able to fully get on with their lives unless they let others in, and share what they have done and who they are at least with the poeple they are closest to, while the "bad guys" worship a goddess that encourages them to do things that they can keep secret, and those secrets drive wedges between themselves and the people that should be the closest to them, isolating them more and more.
Hm, halfway through the book and no Riven yet? Interesting. Makes me wonder what Mask has # 2 doing right now.
Oh, and is the Lathanderite a paladin? He seems to have picked up on Elyril's nature pretty quickly. I would assume we'll see more of him later on in the story, but he has been interesting for the few scenes he has been in thus far. |
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epheros
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 06:41:39
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| Anyone get the feeling that the Kefil, Elyril's dog companion, is actually an "avatar" of Kezef, the divine mastif that's hunting Mask? |
Epheros Aldor - Apostle of Cale |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 14:17:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Just finished off the second section of the book, and there were a lot of intruiging things in it (not the least of which was Mask, ironically enough). Since I alluded to it, the appearance of Mask was wonderful.
This was my favorite scene to write in the entire novel. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Like I told Epheros on my blog: Wouldn't anyone want to punch their god in the mouth if they could?
quote:
I have started to think that Elyril's talking dog, faces in furniture, and various and sundry other voices and visions are more a product of her addiction and less about Shar's revelations to her. Which makes it more interesting to me that I think that her demigod playmate is actually real, and my suspicion is that he might have something to do with someone that has just started to be mentioned again in this section
Interesting speculation, sir. I wonder if you'll be thinking the same as you get further along.
quote:
As far as the constant 2 and 2 are four comment, in this section of the book it really struck me in a different way for the first time that I heard it. In many ways (and I think this is how Cale is taking it) it seems like it suggests that there is little free will, and what you are is what you are, and you can't change it. But after the conversatoin with Varra, it strikes me that it means a lot more than that. It meast that you are the sum total of your experiences and the things that you have let touch you. Cale is only going to be "complete" (or should I say solved?) when he assimilates everything that he is and has been.
That is a very astute observation, KEjr. And you're right -- Cale doesn't see it that way, which is part of his problem. Varra knows better and tried to say as much, but Cale's not buying, at least not yet.
quote:
Hm, halfway through the book and no Riven yet? Interesting. Makes me wonder what Mask has # 2 doing right now.
Fear not. He will show soon.
quote:
Oh, and is the Lathanderite a paladin? He seems to have picked up on Elyril's nature pretty quickly. I would assume we'll see more of him later on in the story, but he has been interesting for the few scenes he has been in thus far.
He is a paladin and you will definitely see more of him soon.
Great comments. |
Edited by - PaulSKemp on 10 Nov 2006 17:16:03 |
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Octa
Learned Scribe
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 18:22:06
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Paul- So when did Cale get his hair back? At the beginning of the last trilogy he was bald right? I am assuming it grew back because of his becoming a shade, or am I thinking the opposite, he had hair when he worked for the Uskreven's, and now he is shaven headed.
I know I cut right to the deep and important questions right? |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 22:17:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Octa
Paul- So when did Cale get his hair back? At the beginning of the last trilogy he was bald right? I am assuming it grew back because of his becoming a shade, or am I thinking the opposite, he had hair when he worked for the Uskreven's, and now he is shaven headed.
I know I cut right to the deep and important questions right?
Octa,
Cale got his hair back between the end of MM and the beginning of Shadowbred. But I guess you knew that, eh? 
You may remember that Cale's baldness was the result of a spell that his mentor in Westgate cast on him to assist in his escape from the that city and the Night Masks. At that time, his hair was red. Sometime after his transformation in Twilight Falling, the regenerative properties of his new form resulted in the regrowth of his hair, but not in its original red -- in black, instead.
Hope that helps. |
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Octa
Learned Scribe
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 20:18:45
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Paul- Honestly I didn't realize it until he returns to Stormweather keep and the Uskreven's mention it. I actually didn't read the Sembia series yet, and picked up his/your adventures in the last trilogy. Anyways, I picked up the book on monday eve and am just about done, so it is compelling. Like the other commenters I would like to echo the thanks for the believability, your characters actually seem to understand the physical rules of Faerun, and factor them into their actions. It also shows the huge impact that high level characters can have on the world around them.
One more thing, you haven't actually had a dog have you, I picked that up with my keen sense of observation (yuck yuck), If I am right let me know and I will clue you in as to my clue. :) |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 20:22:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Octa
One more thing, you haven't actually had a dog have you, I picked that up with my keen sense of observation (yuck yuck), If I am right let me know and I will clue you in as to my clue. :)
I've had dogs my whole life, including now (a mutt I found on 9/11). Kefil, of course, is a bit of an unusual canine....  |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 09:37:33
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The scene with Mask was awesome and his comment on Cale always teleporting into dirty alleys made me laugh (although I can't imagine anyone teleporting into a high-end brothel constantly without being noticed...)
The story is getting more and more addictive, especially your cruel 3-5 pages of running around the city before meeting the Uskevrens just flew by  (did you do that on purpose? ). |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 14:07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
The story is getting more and more addictive, especially your cruel 3-5 pages of running around the city before meeting the Uskevrens just flew by (did you do that on purpose? ).
I'm glad you're enjoying it, Braveheart. Yes, I did keep the city scenes purposely brief, but used them (hopefully) to demonstrate through Cale's eyes how the city had changed in the time since he had been away. Big events have transpired, and Selgaunt is not the same city it once was.
Paul |
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Octa
Learned Scribe
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 16:48:52
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Ok, I was wrong then, the only reason why I thought that is in the later scene with Riven, his dogs are females, but like to have their belly's scratched, and it is my observation (based on a small statistical sample) that the belly scratch is most loved by male dogs, some female dogs like it, but not as many.
Who knows my family and I are German Shepherd people, and we have had three females over my life and none of them liked that so much, so maybe its breed dependent. |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 17:18:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Octa
Ok, I was wrong then, the only reason why I thought that is in the later scene with Riven, his dogs are females, but like to have their belly's scratched, and it is my observation (based on a small statistical sample) that the belly scratch is most loved by male dogs, some female dogs like it, but not as many.
Who knows my family and I are German Shepherd people, and we have had three females over my life and none of them liked that so much, so maybe its breed dependent.
I think it may be breed dependent, Octa. I've got a mixed breed large female, and she hits the floor and shows her belly the minute I walk in the door. |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 21:12:41
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This Trilogy will be the best read of the last 50 or 100 books for me. You do a great Job Paul, thanks for that.
Erevis Cale is a character to be loved. He has been through so many things. That are tales to make a new hero :-)
GREAT |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 13:49:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Lameth
This Trilogy will be the best read of the last 50 or 100 books for me. You do a great Job Paul, thanks for that.
Erevis Cale is a character to be loved. He has been through so many things. That are tales to make a new hero :-)
GREAT
Thank you, Lameth. I hope you enjoy the end. I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts. |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 00:26:10
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I just finished chapter 9 and am loving it. I agree with KEJR about the stuff with Elyril's addiction making her see more stuff than is actually there. Her dream of serving next to the Lord Scaisomething is interesting, kinda non-realistic as there would be nothing for them to rule in Shar's name if they succeed. Obviously, she is being played for a dope by others.
I saw the twist with the friend of Lord Uskreven coming a mile away. Erevis took an instant dislike to him and he just came off wrong. Of course we are seeing it through Erevis' eyes, anyway, so we knew something was up.
Can't wait to continue later. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 11:00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
The scene with Mask was awesome and his comment on Cale always teleporting into dirty alleys made me laugh (although I can't imagine anyone teleporting into a high-end brothel constantly without being noticed...)
The story is getting more and more addictive, especially your cruel 3-5 pages of running around the city before meeting the Uskevrens just flew by (did you do that on purpose? ).
Yeah although I'd really have enjoyed reading much more of Cale's travels around Starmantle and Teziir in search of Magadon, I thought this was really well done.
I liked the little mentions of past events from the Erevis Cale trilogy too, like Sephris with his "two and two are four" statement and mention of Tazi and the Uskevren family. Such great memories going back right to Shadows Witness 
I loved how one of the previous chapters with Grathan was tied into this one when Cale finds him and questions him. Well written, great stuff!
In chapter 7, It was quite unnerving when Cale was cursing Mask and avoiding his call. Talk about tempt the wrath of a god 
The scene with Varra was just beautiful. There was so much feeling and emotion in that scene and I found it quite touching and really felt for her. Poor thing 
The scene with Mask in the alleyway was outstanding  Cale sure has got some balls to do what he did! I quite enjoyed the slight humour, banter and bargaining which went on between the two as well.
I just loved the whole feel of Selgaunt in this chapter (8), mention of the Old Chauncel and the Hulorn etc brought back yet more fond memories of the Sembia series. One line I really liked (simple as it may be) was when Cale was going to shadowstep from a building and then decided to "climb down, the old way". Beautiful!
Well the state of Selgaunt sure has deteriorated. The food situation is pretty bad. I liked how it described how it had gotten into that state, with farmers abandoning farms which supplied food to the city, and came into the city finding little food.
I quite like how books mention other events and the mention of the Rage here was pleasing to see. However, i'm baffled as to what the "Rain of Fire" is?! I've never heard of it  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 11:03:13
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by Octa
One more thing, you haven't actually had a dog have you, I picked that up with my keen sense of observation (yuck yuck), If I am right let me know and I will clue you in as to my clue. :)
I've had dogs my whole life, including now (a mutt I found on 9/11). Kefil, of course, is a bit of an unusual canine....
IIRC, a similar question relating to your love of dogs was brought up in an interview with you here at Candlekeep. I recall the scene with Riven's dogs in Twilight Falling, and also with the scene with the mistreated dog at Skullport with Riven in Dawn of Night, which shows this.
Edit: Nope, I guess I don't recall correctly as I can't see anything in the interview (http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/interviews/pskemp_int.htm)  Perhaps it was another thread here some time ago. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 25 Nov 2006 11:05:14 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 11:04:19
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| I beleive the "Rain of Fire" is the resulting meteors left from the dissolution of the Tear of Selune that fell in the Erevis Cale trilogy. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 11:06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I beleive the "Rain of Fire" is the resulting meteors left from the dissolution of the Tear of Selune that fell in the Erevis Cale trilogy.
Ah ha! Thanks, KnightErrantJR. Was this actually named in Midnight's Mask as this? I must have just not remembered this particular |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 11:10:08
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Well the arrival at Stormweather Towers put the icing on the cake for me Seeing Brilla and reading of the other familiarities felt like being at home again after a long trip.
When Cale was stood alone in Thamalon's old parlour then moved a chess piece and said "your move, Lord", it sent a shiver down my spine! My, how Cale has changed since those days.
The hatred and disrespect between Cale and Vees is great. I loved how Cale wanted to punch his teeth out 
Wow, I was surprised when Tazi turned up! I never expected to read of her again in a novel since The Crimson Gold.
Quite a surprise when Vees went to the temple of Shar too and performed the sacrifice. Nasty! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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cheezitgod
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 08:20:02
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I love the book thusfar, but I fear completing it, as waiting until Nov. 2008 will be agonizing.
Cale looking at that book made me feel that Elyril is going to eventually get her hands on it and "finish it". Also seems that Malkur's Blades are looking at their first blemish on their record, soon.
First post from a new member(although I thought I had signed up a couple of years ago...yes, a lurker I be). |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 14:35:52
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quote:
Originally posted by cheezitgod
I love the book thusfar, but I fear completing it, as waiting until Nov. 2008 will be agonizing.
Cale looking at that book made me feel that Elyril is going to eventually get her hands on it and "finish it". Also seems that Malkur's Blades are looking at their first blemish on their record, soon.
First post from a new member(although I thought I had signed up a couple of years ago...yes, a lurker I be).
Cheezitgod,
Glad you posted at last, then.
And thank you. I hope the rest of the novel keeps you entertained, too. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 16:45:32
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Wow! Paul you are really working the mystery card in this book. I am very interested in Everis' inner struggle and his little chat with his "old friend." He has depth and that is reassuring. I'm pretty sure I'm not ever going to like Shar worshippers. Blah, the princes of Shade are such great bad guys. On the civil war angle I would say that Sembia can yield a variety of possibilities. I am definitely going to have to read the next two books. 
I feel that I am reading a different type of realms book and that is cool. Variety is always good. This book is awesome. Oh, and kids. Don't do minddust. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 09:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
The story is getting more and more addictive, especially your cruel 3-5 pages of running around the city before meeting the Uskevrens just flew by (did you do that on purpose? ).
I'm glad you're enjoying it, Braveheart. Yes, I did keep the city scenes purposely brief, but used them (hopefully) to demonstrate through Cale's eyes how the city had changed in the time since he had been away. Big events have transpired, and Selgaunt is not the same city it once was.
Paul
I realy enjoyed this in particular. Nothing is worse in a world like the Reamls - that 'lives' - than ignoring the events that shake it. I really appreciate this in your novel. I have no doubt, for an author to keep all this in mind when writing a novel might be a pain in the butt, sometimes.
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 16 Jan 2008 09:58:24 |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 14:55:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
I realy enjoyed this in particular. Nothing is worse in a world like the Reamls - that 'lives' - than ignoring the events that shake it. I really appreciate this in your novel. I have no doubt, for an author to keep all this in mind when writing a novel might be a pain in the butt, sometimes.
Ergdusch
Sometimes the volume of stuff to keep track of is challenging, but working it into the storyline, even if just in a passing way, is fun. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 12:50:44
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Don't know where to put this question, so this place is as good as any other I figured...
I am re-reading the entire Erevis-series atm and worked my way to the Twilight War trilogy by now. As you can see from the previous posts, I read Shadowbred back in 2008 already and I enjoyed it the second time around as well.
Now to my question:
What is the precise effect of the drug minddust? How addictave is its use and what are its long time effects on the mind and body? Does it have game stats and where would I find those in sourcebooks?
Thanks in advance,
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 25 Aug 2010 13:17:29 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 02:52:05
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I kinda had a hard time reading the first few chapters. Well, maybe because 'tis often about Cale, who sadly had not yet endeared himself to me. Good thing the later chapters quite lived up to the book's promise. And as always, I like it when my favorite villains emerged. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Shadowbred: Chapters 5 - 9
