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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 07:44:27
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Way back in the begining of the Cale trilogy, Cale had mentioned that Tamlin had seemed to have change, somewhat, and perhaps have started on the road to acting a bit more like his father. It seems, in this section, that we definately get the chance to see exactly how much, and in some cases, how little, he has changed from his old self.
I feel bad for the Selkirk brothers. I had actually kind of warmed up to the thought that Miklos might have had a promising future after he proved to be the voice of reason among the Sembians in the Last Mythal books. Its not a complaint, its just confirmation that there is a major change going on in Sembia, and Selkirk's that aren't under Mirabeta's thumb aren't part of that plan.
I really like how Abelar has been portrayed so far, and how his interaction with Cale went. In fact, I think its funny that Abelar is wary of Cale, but not automatically dismmissive of him as an "evildoer" to be vanquished, but yet Tamlin almost follows this logic himself. What I like is that I get the feeling that Abelar knows that, in part, the darkness he sees in Cale comes from his connection to Mask (I hate to ruin a novel discussion with "gamespeak," but for some reason I like the ambiguity that detect evil introduces, in that in 3.5 it will detect a cleric of an evil god as evil, no matter what their alignment is. It takes a wise man not to jump to too many conclusions based on that. Not that Cale doesn't have a fairly good degree of his own darkness to go around . . . )
I also found it interesting that Cale is more willing to think that this conflict may have more to do with good versus evil than Tamlin is, and that Tamlin is more than ready to assume that a paladin would be overzealous in assuming "evil is afoot" than to just try and read a polical situation.
Although I'm pretty sure it will be a minor point (at least for a while), I hope that we get some kind of follow up to the overtures made to Cormyr and Cormanthyr, if only envoys explaining that they can't get involved or whatnot. I like the feeling that these nations would be concerned about the politics in Sembia, and I also would love to see if the Daerlun/Cormyr succession angle plays out as well. Its also an interesting to see how quickly the political situation went from Cormyr being weak, and the Dales being in a precarious situation, to the Dales having a firm ally in the elves, and Sembia being in arguably worse straights than Cormyr.
Paul is good at making likable characters, even characters that are fairly dark and grim, and may not end up on the right side of the protagonists at the end of the story. On the other hand, he also has a talent for making characters that you desperately want to see dead. Talendar definately falls into the latter category. Forgive me, but I want him dead in the worst way.
I like the way the Shadovar manuvered themselves into the position of potential allies, though I feel that Talendar might have overplayed the "coincidence" of the situation. Dispite this, Tamlin was dense enough that that heavy handed happenstance didn't seem to send up any alarms. I mention this not because of any flaw in the plot, but because its frustrating (yet very much in character) for Tamlin to be this dense about something so important. |
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 12:19:00
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| The Death of the Selkirk brothers was really a shock for me. Is it just me or does it seem like Tamlin just might be the first king of Sembia ? He seems thick enough and vain enough to be easily controlled and I doubt that the Shadovar could move quite so plainly as to actually simply conquer Sembia. |
The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 15:55:09
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I'm not sure if Tamlin would fall for the "King of Sembia" bit, but I could see him falling for the "you should be Overmaster to keep Mirabeta from being Queen." On one hand, I had a feeling that someone might start whispering "Overmaster" in his ear, but then again, given that he seems to be somewhat averse to even being in charge of Selgaunt right now, perhaps his political ambition has been somewhat blunted.
Given that Cale is moving to free another man that many would support for Overmaster, I think any political wrangling that Tamlin might be part of would be further down the road, though it might be something to drive a wedge into the alliance of cities against Mirabeta if said alliance starts doing too well and the Shadovar want to keep the civil war going. |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 21:22:01
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I think of Tamlin as a too unexperienced young man. He let slip too many suggestions from other people in his opinions.
The support from Shade Enclave is the cherry on the top.
But I think that`s ok. He is young and has to learn many more thinks in the following years.
You can feel his hunger for being immortal with the idea to become a shade too. :-) |
Edited by - Lameth on 21 Nov 2006 16:35:26 |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 04:54:36
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I like the way the Shadovar manuvered themselves into the position of potential allies, though I feel that Talendar might have overplayed the "coincidence" of the situation. Dispite this, Tamlin was dense enough that that heavy handed happenstance didn't seem to send up any alarms. I mention this not because of any flaw in the plot, but because its frustrating (yet very much in character) for Tamlin to be this dense about something so important.
Tamlin does seem to be easily manipulated but I wonder if it because he is dense or because he is being led down paths he wants to follow. Tamlin lives in his father's shadow, and frankly will never escape that in the political spectrum. Tamlin is not as strong as his father was and as a result I think he seeks power, but not necessarily political power. Tamlin's study of shadow magic, his fascination with Cale being a shade, and his subsequent questions to Rivalen indicate to me a darker side of Tamlin. |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 06:35:39
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I have to agree, the characters are very likable and real. The characterizations I think are very compelling, showing different facets of personalty.
I also did not like to see Miklos go. I didn't have a problem with Kendrick, but the sons seemed to have a decent future and hope for Sembia. I was really hoping that at least one of the two got away. Of course, they left the scene with the leader telling his people to bury the bodies deep. There is always the possibility of someone looking for them (nobody has mentioned that they are missing... with all the intrigue of where such and such city is aligning in the civil war, and Tamlin looking for allies, one would think the previous overmaster's sons would be high priority for an alliance. Least of all for the mercenaries and other groups like Silver Ravens) and finding the bodies. Then.. okay, who am I kidding, resurrections are saved for gods only. Still it would be interesting to have the civil war, and near the end have Miklos and brother pop up, alive and kicking and getting that raise they needed.
If the spoilers for the previous books are the comments about the Sojourner, the Wayrock, Jak, Magadon, and the struggle for the temple and the Source, I wouldn't worry about too much info. There is enough there to explain what is going on currently, but not enough to destroy interest in the previous novels. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 09:36:45
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Paul killed Miklos Selkirk? Ahh, shame that. He was a character with possibilities.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Nov 2006 22:54:48 |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 11:17:56
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Edited by - PaulSKemp on 23 Nov 2006 14:13:47 |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 11:18:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Mkhaiwati
If the spoilers for the previous books are the comments about the Sojourner, the Wayrock, Jak, Magadon, and the struggle for the temple and the Source, I wouldn't worry about too much info. There is enough there to explain what is going on currently, but not enough to destroy interest in the previous novels.
That's good to hear, Mkhaiwati. |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 16:42:16
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I think there will be a great breakdown for the father, when he gets the informations that his sons are dead. I don`t want to be in the skin of the killers at that time.
Ohoh!!! |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 11:15:34
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I agree with a lot of the comments here. Tamlin sure isn't coping very well with his post and the outbreak of civil war seems to about tip him over the edge 
I liked the scene when Abelar meets Cale and sees his nature but gives him full respect. When Cale admits he's a shade too I liked how Abelar said "Lathander and Mask, Light and Shadow" and how he expected to fight cale before, not fight alongside him. Excellent.
The feeling of the brewing war with all the short scenes in chapter 13 is very well done.
Again, I was surprised when Vees told of his familys trading with the Shadovar. It did have a typical Sembian view though with "coin is coin" 
Further surprise when Tamlin mentioned seeking the aid of the Shadovar  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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cheezitgod
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 01:07:59
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"...and his subsequent questions to Rivalen indicate to me a darker side of Tamlin."
Minor spoiler, Xysma!
^^^^^^^^^
I know it was earlier in the book, but how many words does Elminster hear after somebody speaks his name again? Just wondering what he could gather from the two Prince's when they were spying on his fake.
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primemover003
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 00:56:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Lameth
I think there will be a great breakdown for the father, when he gets the informations that his sons are dead. I don`t want to be in the skin of the killers at that time.
Ohoh!!!
Ah... the Father is already dead. |
Walking the fine line between Order and Chaos, Darkness and Light... |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 10:04:18
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Last night I had my first down letting moment in this novel. The Death of the Selkirk brothers was just a little too easy for my taste. A poisoned dart here, a few crossbow bolts there - I had expected more - a tougher fight, especially by Miklos. IIRC, in the Last-mythal-Series he stood tall and proud and I really hoped to read more on him and his position in Sembia.
And now he is killed like a low-ranking Purple Dragon of Cormyr. I would have liked to see him stand and fall in a bigger fight than that.
Anyhow, over all I like what I am reading so far and I will read on - no doubt! And maybe I will see Miklos return somehow - miraculously. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 14:57:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
And now he is killed like a low-ranking Purple Dragon of Cormyr. I would have liked to see him stand and fall in a bigger fight than that.
Ah, death be not proud. 
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 16:00:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Last night I had my first down letting moment in this novel. The Death of the Selkirk brothers was just a little too easy for my taste. A poisoned dart here, a few crossbow bolts there - I had expected more - a tougher fight, especially by Miklos. IIRC, in the Last-mythal-Series he stood tall and proud and I really hoped to read more on him and his position in Sembia.
Am I a bad person for being happy that that character died? I just always found him annoying. I even thought his name was annoying. What can I say, I'm fickle. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 16 Jan 2008 16:01:11 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 16:18:57
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
And now he is killed like a low-ranking Purple Dragon of Cormyr. I would have liked to see him stand and fall in a bigger fight than that.
Ah, death be not proud.
His poor death did not bother me. Just like in the "real world",
not all heroes get to die a heros death. Many waste away in disease or die pennyless and alone.
He actually had a pretty good death now that I think of it!
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 17:51:42
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Although I'm pretty sure it will be a minor point (at least for a while), I hope that we get some kind of follow up to the overtures made to Cormyr and Cormanthyr, if only envoys explaining that they can't get involved or whatnot. I like the feeling that these nations would be concerned about the politics in Sembia.
I did hope, too. After reading Shadowrealm, I was even surprised that not even one nation came to aid Sembia. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 18:03:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Further surprise when Tamlin mentioned seeking the aid of the Shadovar
Not surprising, really. That's how the Shadovar wanted to play their game. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Shadowbred: Chapters 10 - 13
