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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Nov 2005 : 02:58:58
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I'm into part two now (about 130 pages in). The story is quickly proving to be highly entertaining. I was none too impressed with the first Baldur's Gate novel (which Athans also wrote), but this book proves that Athans is far from being an incapable author. The descriptive prose is very well done, and though I'm not overly enthused by the protagonist (not yet, anyway--my feelings might change) I appreciate that all of the characters seem quite realistic in that they are "gray" and have reasons for doing what they do. I still don't know what to make of Willem, for example, who seems like a friendly and likeable guy trying to help himself, but apparently has no qualms about ruining someone else's life to get ahead. Maybe Willem isn't such a character foil for Ivar, after all--Ivar isn't such a nice guy himself.
I didn't much like Chp 23, the fight between Devorast and a bunch of giant frog creatures (bullywugs?). Firstly, I the combat description was unengaging, although to be fair much fighting in novels bores me. Second, I thought Ivar Devorast was very calm, competent, and poised for someone who we have not been told has any kind of combat experience. It didn't help, either, that no one except another dwarf worker went to help Devorast in the fight (*everyone* else was a coward?). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 20:32:03
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Unfortunately, part 2 features yet another combat scene, where Ivar Devorast faces off powerful enemies ("demon-eels", no less!) and does a fairly good job of it, even though we are never told anywhere in the novel that Ivar has any kind of experience in combat. I also find it hard to believe that he can face such creatures with little or no fear. This is a person who has dedicated himself to his work as a builder, who probably had neither the time nor the inclination to train with weapons. There is no reason for the reader to assume that every protagonist in an FR novel (including this one) should be skilled even minimally with weapons or magic.
Everything else about the novel besides the protagonist is wonderful though. I love the villain, Marek. He is intelligent, ruthless, culls allies for himself, and when he is faced with a problem, he finds an efficent way to solve it. If this book is trying to show that selfishness is a virtue, well, I think many of the characters in the book show themselve to be pretty damn selfish--Willem (look at how he strings along Halina), Pristoleph, Marek. Another "blow" against the protagonist--the reader never sees things from his perspective, only through the perspective of other characters. I almost feel like I have more of a reason to cheer on Marek than the conceited protagonist. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Nov 2005 20:33:01 |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 22:44:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I didn't much like Chp 23, the fight between Devorast and a bunch of giant frog creatures (bullywugs?). Firstly, I the combat description was unengaging, although to be fair much fighting in novels bores me. Second, I thought Ivar Devorast was very calm, competent, and poised for someone who we have not been told has any kind of combat experience. It didn't help, either, that no one except another dwarf worker went to help Devorast in the fight (*everyone* else was a coward?).
I didn't see them as being bullywugs when I read it earlier. I just saw them as, well, giant frogs. Not my favorite scene so far, but i thought it was quite well described. Made me whince when Devorast entwines the frogs tongue and rips it out his mouth...then calmly shakes it from his sword  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 22:48:22
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The start of this part of the book was well done: being a letter from Willem to his mother, which filled in the current sitatuation and gave a kind of overview.
Nice to see the title of the book come into play also, when Fharaud said to Devorast that he has the "whisper of waves" due to his costant facination and knowledge of ships and the seas.
I thought at first that these Firedrakes were like Draconian-type creatures, but they seem far from it now and lack any intelligence: instead, simply being brutal destructive creatures. Nasty. I can't help but like Insithryllax though... I think it must be him now having the slight upperhand over Marek or something 
On this point, I quite liked how it went over and said that Marek and Insith had now become "friends" after the charm spell had worn off many years ago. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 22:52:15
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I quite liked how Phil described some of the greetings customs here and went into the varied cultures of Faerûn. It DOES feel like an FR book and has quite a bit of flavor. There's a feeling of a higher level of civilisation here though for sure.
One point which really stuck for me which I really liked, is how Willem (after meeting and hitting it off with Halina), remarked on her uncle, being Thayan, must be a Red Wizard with obvious intent to enslave (or something like that). Quite a prejudiced comment and common view that people must have on Thay inhabitants. Despite the fact that it's true, it's a broad assumption to make Thay = Red Wizard\Slavers. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 22:59:38
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Wooohoooo the scene with Everwind shattering and collapsing when going through the portal was great! Very dramatic. I really enjoyed this scene as it took me by surprise as well. I liked how Phil wrote the next part, having Fharaud going through listing and detailing all the things he had lost... some of which being parts of his body!!
The letter from the Truesilver noble really put the icing on the cake. Poor old Fharaud! Talk about bad luck!
Nice intimate and passionate scene with Willem and Halina. Shame it was only a short chapter 
I'm not sure what to make of the arrival of Ran Ai Yu and the disjointed dialog. I kind of lost interest in trying to read that paragraph, but then liked the part where she asked what "I've" meant. Something I guess we would take for granted and should say "I have" to those who don't (sorry, "Do Not") understand the common language.
I was surprised at how easy and fickle Willem is, and how he fell for Phyrea only moments after meeting her... being as he was smitten with Halina and arranged to marry her soon before.
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 23:03:28
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Again, like you said, Rinonalyrna: the demon fish scene didn't particularly grab me. It was ok, but just...strange. Some nice descriptions in places, but seemed a little out of place.
There are a lot of different scenes in the book which appear to have little relevance. They're enjoyable, but it all seems quite disjointed and the story is nothing like I imagined. It's not until the end of part one that the word "canal" is uttered for the first time 
It was quite sad to see the state of Fharaud laid up in bed. Devorast just thinking him a babbling crazy fool and humoring him when he tries to explain or warn him of something.
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2005 : 04:14:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Again, like you said, Rinonalyrna: the demon fish scene didn't particularly grab me. It was ok, but just...strange. Some nice descriptions in places, but seemed a little out of place.
Especially since those fish seem like very powerful creatures, compared to Ivar, Ran Ai Yu, and Hrothgar, who aren't exactly described as hardened battle veterans. By the way, there is no reason to assume Ran Ai Yu is a skilled fighter, either, but I let that go because if she has a family sword, it might well be that her family trains its members as warriors.
I'm with you on the friendship between Marek and the dragon. Wow, two evil villains who have a geniune friendship of sorts. That's not something you see in every novel.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Proc
Acolyte
Canada
32 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2005 : 06:36:15
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Having now gone through parts 1 and 2, I am having the same trouble as some other posters have pointed out: Who are we suppose to root for? Marek and Insithryllax are obvious villains, but I really like their interactions, and scenes featuring the two of them are among my favourites. Pristoleph is a product of his upbringing, and will go to any lengths to secure the high station he has risen to in Innarlith. Willem is completely selfish and is driven (mostly by outside sources) to maintain his station within the social/political elite of the city. So who does that leave? Ivar? A deeply introspective troubled genius doesn’t exactly fit the “hero” mould very well. As Rinonalyrna Fathomlin pointed out, we never see things from Ivar’s perspective, so it’s hard to identify with him. Having said all that, I’m very curious to see just who will come out on top in the power struggle for control of Innarlith.
The novel I think is so far hit or miss for me. Some scenes I think are excellent, with great descriptive prose – the Everwind shattering after leaving the portal I thought was awesome, but some of the combat stuff didn’t really seem to flow quite as well, or draw me in quite as much.
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"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2005 : 09:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Proc
Having now gone through parts 1 and 2, I am having the same trouble as some other posters have pointed out: Who are we suppose to root for? Marek and Insithryllax are obvious villains, but I really like their interactions, and scenes featuring the two of them are among my favourites. Pristoleph is a product of his upbringing, and will go to any lengths to secure the high station he has risen to in Innarlith. Willem is completely selfish and is driven (mostly by outside sources) to maintain his station within the social/political elite of the city. So who does that leave? Ivar? A deeply introspective troubled genius doesn’t exactly fit the “hero” mould very well. As Rinonalyrna Fathomlin pointed out, we never see things from Ivar’s perspective, so it’s hard to identify with him. Having said all that, I’m very curious to see just who will come out on top in the power struggle for control of Innarlith.
The novel I think is so far hit or miss for me. Some scenes I think are excellent, with great descriptive prose – the Everwind shattering after leaving the portal I thought was awesome, but some of the combat stuff didn’t really seem to flow quite as well, or draw me in quite as much.
I had the same thoughts. I strangely warmed to Marek, but then realised he was the bad guy Willem grinds against me a little, I don't know why.
I also loved the scene with the Everwind. It's probably my favorite scene in the book and really took me by surprise. Quite a cinematic feeling to it too. The aftermath and effect on Fharaud was very well done. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 04:02:59
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First off, I have to say that Phil Athens really is showing off his ability to write. That is not to say I'm sold on the whole book yet. Its not that I don't like it, but it it definately the kind of book that makes it hard to draw conclusions until you see some of the loose ends tied up. It makes me wonder if the format was his idea, because he seems to really take to it.
The first section really didn't grab me, and I was wondering if my first instinct, that I could skip this trilogy and not miss much, might not be right. I liked some of it, but it wasn't really cohesive and I couldn't see where anything was going. The only person that clearly shined was Marek.
This second section has pulled me in much more, and really has started to show what the focus of the story is. First off, I would like to say that this is the closest thing to a novel about "commoner" type characters that I think we have really seen. Marek is likely the most powerful person in this book to date, and Ivar, while showing that he has a good heart (when he is engaged enough to pay attention), definately isn't the valiant hero or even brooding dark seething anti-hero that we are used to.
While I agree that Ivar has had an easy time of it in combat, if you look at the fights, it also seems to me that he is doing the same thing in the fights that he does everywhere else. He analyses his opponents as problems and comes up with a solution. Its showing consistancy, though it is streaching disbeleif to see an engineer that naturally can handle himself in a fight.
Through the second section, Ivar has grown on me. I actually kind of like how quirky he is now. The mention of Kara-Tur and Ivar's interest in Ran Ai Yu's comments has my interest piqued.
Marek has been interesting in a number of ways. If he meets his end, I won't be sorry, and yet, he as come across as a very interesting knave. We see someone that is shaping up to be the villain, yet we also see that his master plan is almost pieced together a little bit at a time, not some master scheme that he came up with, but rather Marek coming up with a plan based on what presents itself to him. It is also interesting to see him do some things seemingly just on a whim. I agree that the friendship with Insythrillyx makes for a deeper personality.
Pristoleph's low key but very political return is interesting. I definately don't have a handle on him yet.
Faraud's vision: I take it as this, and keep in mind, I am just reading into the comments what we know so far . . . I think the man that is going back to a second rate man before becoming a first rate monster is Willem, and that the man pulling his strings, and someone with a lot more to them than meets the eye, is Inthelph. I will refrain from my conjecture on his daughter, but it fits the region . . . Willem started out somewhat likable, but has really gotten under my skin, the more he looks down on others, justifies poisoning people to advance himself, and the way he uses his "fiance" and Ivar is rather disturbing.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 05:49:24
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
While I agree that Ivar has had an easy time of it in combat, if you look at the fights, it also seems to me that he is doing the same thing in the fights that he does everywhere else. He analyses his opponents as problems and comes up with a solution. Its showing consistancy, though it is streaching disbeleif to see an engineer that naturally can handle himself in a fight.
That last statement of yours is the kicker. Just because Ivar is a genius at one thing (construction) doesn't mean he should be good at everything, or use the same thought processes of his work when gigantic demon-fish are bearing down on him. I find it hard to relate to someone who doesn't seem to be afraid of anything, even though there is no evidence whatsoever that Ivar has had battle experience.
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Through the second section, Ivar has grown on me. I actually kind of like how quirky he is now.
Hehe. For me, Ivar never got "quirky", he just stayed annoying (though I'll admit there were a few moments where I did like him a bit). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 18:00:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Unfortunately, part 2 features yet another combat scene, where Ivar Devorast faces off powerful enemies ("demon-eels", no less!) and does a fairly good job of it, even though we are never told anywhere in the novel that Ivar has any kind of experience in combat. I also find it hard to believe that he can face such creatures with little or no fear. This is a person who has dedicated himself to his work as a builder, who probably had neither the time nor the inclination to train with weapons. There is no reason for the reader to assume that every protagonist in an FR novel (including this one) should be skilled even minimally with weapons or magic.
Ivar has always been "unconvincing."
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Everything else about the novel besides the protagonist is wonderful though. I love the villain, Marek. He is intelligent, ruthless, culls allies for himself, and when he is faced with a problem, he finds an efficent way to solve it.
Red Wizards often make "good" villains. Except that one in Pools of Darkness. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Whisper of Waves: Part 2 (Chapters 8-36)
