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David E
Seeker
USA
55 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 18:35:52
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Has anyone tried to integrate the new magic types in Tome of Magic in the Forgotten Realms? In terms of lore, I would imagine that Shadow Magic would fit in easily with Shar, the Shadow Weave, and her worshippers. Truename Magic has an ancient feel to it that I think could be appropriate to Netheril or some of the other forgotten empires of ancient Faerun. Pact Magic is a little more difficult to place. Maybe Narfell or some other regions intimately involved in bargaining with fell Outsiders.
Any thoughts on this?
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 19:05:01
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| In my games, I have been trying to get away from the heavy magic feel, and focus more on the martial aspects of the characters, so no, I have not tried it. However, I would like to hear more on what others have done. |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 16:01:01
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Binders
I think binders are something that multiple cultures could have come across. Certainly the Narfell might have figured this out, given their bent on summoning evil outsiders, but I think many other cultures could have stumbled across it.
Given that it allows an outside force to have some "anchor" in the binder's soul, no matter what the game rules are, it might be seen as very dangerous and desperate. The flavor of the class definately shows that the outside world, even stardard arcane practictioners, might see binders as dangerous (heck even Warlocks don't seem to be noted as being shunned quite as much as binders).
Given that its not likely to have an "open" tradition, I can picture that many different cultures would have a few of these guys popping up as a sort of "master and apprentice" relationship.
Shadow Casters
Despite what it says in the sidebar for Faerun, I wouldn't assume that all Shadow Magic comes through the Shadow Weave. It was mentioned in the FRCS that there is Shadow Magic in Faerun that is not to be confused with Shadow Weave Magic. While I can see users of the Shadow Weave learning how to use Shadow Magic, I wouldn't automatically assume that all Shadow Magic is connected to the Shadow Weave.
That having been said, I can see renegades from the Shadovar using this magic, as well as Krinth rebels trying to free their kin from the Shadovar. I don't picture a lot of "establishment" Shadovar using shadow magic since lots and lots of ancient Netherese spells can't be used by shadow casters, and I just see them as too arrogant to give up these ancient traditions.
I can picture shadow casters, and a lot of the PrCs associated with them, in the church of Mask as well.
Truenamers
I can definately see truenamers in the Realms, although I don't think they would be that common. I can picture them at the more formal learning areas in the Realms, such as the colleges in Silverymoon.
All that having been said, I almost picture the truename spells as being more common than truenamers themselves. I picture a lot of wizards learning the truenaming skill and picking up some truenaming spells that they have details here.
I can picture the church of Deneir having a lot of truenamers and the PrCs associated with them, especially with Deneir's preoccupation with the Metatext. Along those same lines, I could picture old worshipers of Leira (and maybe now converts to Cyric) that would have studied this course of action. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 16:04:48
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| KEJR, how much does the "Truenamers" take from the old Planescape/1E planar spells and ideas, like the old spiritwrack and truename spell? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 16:31:04
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Most of the truename "spells" are run like skill checks . . . you learn a type of truename that makes something that is a weapon more effective, you learn a truename that makes time run faster for you, etc. You can actually use a truename that you know as many times a day as you like, but each time you try to prounounce it, the DC for it gets higher.
Now, when it comes to a wizard learning truenameing and using the "truenamer" type spell presented, you have enchantments the work better if you know someone's truename, as well as fear effects that do the same. Truename Binding works like a planar binding but better if you know the creatures truename, Spurn the Supernatural can strip away supernatural abilities, and True Banishment banishes something for a given length of time unless the banished one learns the truename of the caster. My favorite of all of the truename spells though was the Unname spell, which basicall destroys something and on top of that, erases its truename from the universe so they can't be raised, or ressurected at all. Even if you wish them back, it can only wish their truename back into existance.
None of the abilities are directly analogous to the spirit wrack and truename spells, but there are things kind of similar. In a lot of ways I liked the truename spells better than the truenamer class and its pronouncements. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 16:39:12
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Most of the truename "spells" are run like skill checks . . . you learn a type of truename that makes something that is a weapon more effective, you learn a truename that makes time run faster for you, etc. You can actually use a truename that you know as many times a day as you like, but each time you try to prounounce it, the DC for it gets higher.
Now, when it comes to a wizard learning truenameing and using the "truenamer" type spell presented, you have enchantments the work better if you know someone's truename, as well as fear effects that do the same. Truename Binding works like a planar binding but better if you know the creatures truename, Spurn the Supernatural can strip away supernatural abilities, and True Banishment banishes something for a given length of time unless the banished one learns the truename of the caster. My favorite of all of the truename spells though was the Unname spell, which basicall destroys something and on top of that, erases its truename from the universe so they can't be raised, or ressurected at all. Even if you wish them back, it can only wish their truename back into existance.
None of the abilities are directly analogous to the spirit wrack and truename spells, but there are things kind of similar. In a lot of ways I liked the truename spells better than the truenamer class and its pronouncements.
wow 
that is pretty elaborate! I can't think of a Realms culture that would have directly used that kind of magic except the Nars...and maybe the ancient dwarves (the first immigrants) |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 05:12:13
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True names have been a part of the Realms for a long, long time. Ed Greenwood had this interesting bit to say about Truenames at this link here: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ed-truenames.htm
Note, he wrote this many years ago, long before the Tome of Magic was released or even conceived of. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 05:17:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
True names have been a part of the Realms for a long, long time. Ed Greenwood had this interesting bit to say about Truenames at this link here: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ed-truenames.htm
Note, he wrote this many years ago, long before the Tome of Magic was released or even conceived of.
As well as in his Keep replies. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 10:57:28
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Due to the overwhelming numbers of books on the market and the endless material within them, I have focused my sourcebooks strictly on the FR. And still there is so much game material for DM and players alike that I will hardly ever be able to use it all.
So to answer your question? No I have not included material from Tome of Magic into the FR.
However, I am not surprised to see KEJR having posted his thoughts here. And as always - they are a very interesting and enjoyable read.
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12020 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 15:31:39
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I can definitely see binders in the realms. The feel of the binder is probably something that would have been "discovered" by several individuals throughout history (in Narfell, Imaskar, Shoon Imperium, Netheril, some elven families may have delved into it, etc..). That being said, I don't see there ever having been a cultural group surrounding this type of casting... I also see it becoming more prevalent of late as more and more vestiges are formed in the last say 2 thousand years. HOWEVER, I strongly encourage picking through the rules before letting them in wholeheartedly. There was one which lets you cast phantasmal killer at will, which would be very nasty. It wasn't much that jumped out at me of this sort, but there were a few. Overall, I really liked the binder.
Of the shadowcasters, I can see them being part of the realms, but I wouldn't link them to the shadow weave. Note that both Shar and Mask have links to "Shadow". Shadowcasters would seem to get along with Mask (or perhaps even followers of Leira). In the end, I didn't find the class all that intriguing myself, so I probably wouldn't include it without more options... but if a player wanted to be one, I'd have no problem letting them.
The True Name thing, on the surface, seems to be an interesting system, but it was after I realized that it was SO skill based that I realized it wouldn't work (at least not for me) in the D&D 3.5 world. There's so many ways to give a +10 skill boost (create an item to give bonus type X, cast a spell, etc...) that this path lies down the same road as epic spellcasting (to a degree). Of course, the quick answer here is that "you can't make items or cast spells that give a bonus to the truename skill". I guess in the end, I like the idea behind the truename skill, but I believe it should be more of some kind of add-on to an existing class that might give bonuses to save DC's etc... (thus, if you want to disintegrate someone, maybe knowing his truename might help... maybe even some options that using someone's full truename in a spell and they are killed by it that you are able to prevent simple raise dead/resurrection from working). Maybe work it as feats, maybe as a prestige class. I know there was a variant of truename magic in dragon about a year before this class came out, and it fits more with what I'm describing. All that being said, this aspect is just my personal view, and there is much lore to suggest that "truename magic" is used in the realms. The question you have to ask yourself is do you want to include the truename magic from tome of magic... or include the truename abilities similar to the dragon mag article. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 03:30:50
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For my campaign, I haven't done much with True Name magic beyond noting that -on the surface at least- it fits nicely with previous Realmslore.
As for Shadow Magic, I've elected to adopt it wholesale into my campaign as the basis for what the Netherese survivors of Shade have learned and became while they were 'locked away' on the Shadow Plane.
I think these rules are flexible enough that they can be applied/used by an NPC non Shadow Weave caster that specialized in the shadow sub school (albeit in a comparitively rudimentary way).
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 25 Oct 2006 03:31:33 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 02:35:29
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The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Truenaming being something that ancient dwarves would have really been into. I can picture the first dwarves in Toril having a very strong tradition of this. In a way, I could see the dwarves viewing this in a way similar to what items they craft. In other words, elves like to deal with things that grow out of the earth (like trees and other plants), or refined metals and gems, to make some of their finest goods, and dwarves like to deal with the "deep" elements of the earth, stone and ores, and metals found only in the depest parts of the earth like mithril and adamantite. They might veiw Truenaming as "deeper" magic than wizardly spellcasting, and view elves as using "refined" magic, already worked, whereas truenaming could be viewed by them like "ores" of magic.
Rune magic might be seen as a natural link to truenaming, and it may be that the ancient giants also practiced truenaming as well, thus there was cross polination on both fronts between the dwarves and the giants.
If you don't want to have truenaming appear out of nowhere in the campaign, you could have it be something that is only regularly practiced in Siremun, since its one of the oldest dwarven holds in Toril, and others, with the increased trade with the Horde region, are only just rediscovering it now with increased contact.
Personally, in my campaign, I would consider that Silverymoon, Halruaa, Nimbral, and Thay, as well as some elven instructors know the rudiments of Truenaming, enough to teach ranks in the skill and the spells associated with the skill, but not the Truenaming class itself. In fact, I would imagine that Halruaans and Thayans, especially, would consider the class itself as a dangerous form of magic (considering that sorcerers aren't particularly well regarded, for example). |
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David E
Seeker
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2006 : 11:31:45
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This is a really interesting idea KEJR. I was just reading the thread about the extent of the Weave, and I thought that the idea of a "raw magic," separate from the "refined magic" of the Weave, meshes really well with the concept of Truenaming.
If we get into the nitty-gritty details of it, casting in the Weave requries material focuses, hand gestures, and (most importantly) a verbal component. One could theorize that this verbal compenent is, in fact, a "watered-down" version of truenaming, which makes casting a spell much easier but limits the number of times one can cast it per day (as this puts a strain on the Weave, or for some other reason). Truenaming, on the other hand, requires a MUCH more complicated verbal component to tap the "raw magic" that exists outside of Mystra's Weave; the benefit in doing so, however, is that the Truenamer can cast spells - theoretically - an unlimited number of times per day.
Just some musings. |
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Tome of Magic in Faerun
