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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Apr 2003 : 21:56:59
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SPOILERS......
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I see a bit of an inconsistency in THE TRIAL OF CYRIC and the FAITHS AND PANTHEONS tome......
It would appear that at the end of TRIAL OF CYRIC, Kelemvor has reverted to a more sombre, less "good" form and system of ideals that favors death and judgement over kindness and the like...why is this not reflected in the F&P tome (no robes and sobriety in F&P)?
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2003 : 22:24:49
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| I think the major change in the story is the alignement of Kelemevor. He was LG, he is now LN. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2003 : 05:48:18
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That's RIGHT!!!
(slaps hand to his forehead)
Ah well...no one said you had to be smart to be a bard....
I suppose that the change in his appearance really shouldn't matter, as Kelemvor (when he chooses to at all) most likely manifests himself in whatever form his worshippers will respond to - be it a solemn harbinger of death in robes or a passionate bringer of everlasting peace in paladin's armor....
And by the way...I REALLY love the paladins of Kelemvor....the way they are described in F&P.....they have such an interesting faith, what with the idea of perserving death as a natural state, one of beauty and justice rather than fear...
Anyone agree?
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2003 : 05:49:43
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Oh......and thank you very, very much, Zemd....
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2003 : 06:01:04
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Always glad to help. (that could make a nice profile signature  ) |
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Targon Moonrise
Learned Scribe
163 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2003 : 06:04:18
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| I thought all paladins served Torm. Maybe I'll make a paladin of Kelemvor as my next character. Sounds kinda strange about that combination. |
May Melkor smile upon every spell you cast. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2003 : 06:15:04
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Nah...
Any god can have a paladin order.....it's just that the evil ones tend to be called something different.......plus there are lost of different names for specific paladin orders with different abilities....but I think that's a conversation for another forum.... |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2003 : 20:29:30
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| I don't think any god can have a palladin order. For example Sune is CG. SO her followers can only be NG, CN, N. A palladin must be lawful |
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Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2003 : 21:53:55
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technically yes paladins are supposed to be lawful... but then i never did get the concept of lawful evil... that seemed to be an oxymoron to me for so long...
Often in games i've heard... evil paladins are anti-paladins or such...
but as to the all paladins must be lawful... i doubt that... as the DM has the last say in the matter. Just like certain known characters in the past... like Ren from the Phlan series... he was like a ranger/thief/ranger... or maybe it was thief/ranger/thief... that he changed classes... and then changed back to his original class... or the famous Drow Ranger... (Drow were not normally allowed as rangers.. other than by DM approval) or Pikel and his Dwarf Druid (... again... normally dwarves can't be druids.. yet he is).. not to mention the undead paladin that was in the phlan series (can't remember the deity tho... but still... an UNDEAD paladin...) so really... technically... there could be exceptions to the rule... |
I am like a superhero, with no powers or motivation.
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please keep me here.
People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
Edited by - Zacas on 08 Apr 2003 22:02:14 |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2003 : 22:12:32
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| I think a Palladin should always be lawful. After all it's the only class that requires a Code of Conduct |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2003 : 05:43:01
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First of all....
Lawful evil is the concept of "out for number one, but only as the law allows." Folk who are known to use the law to drive people from their homes, force unfair taxes on the peasants or enact outdated, cruel punishments for modern crimes are considered Lawful Evil. Or, they may be someone who takes great pleasure in massacre and bloodshed, but is fiercely loyal to his or her king or commander. For example (Alaundo forgive me for this one), think of Darth Vader. Completely committed to his own goals and vile dreams of galactic domination, yet totally incapable of defying the Emperor (uhm....until the end, that is...)
Secondly....
Allow me to add an adendum to my previous statement...
In the FAITHS AND PANTHEONS tome, it explains that not all gods have paladins, but that almost all of them have "paladin-like" prestige classes. Sune's are called "Heartwarders", Shar has her "Nightcloaks", Torm his "Stormlords" and Selune her "Silverstars", etc. In this way, all gods have paladin like orders, it is just that a true "paladin" must indeed, be lawful (according to the rules of D&D - totally bendable by the DM or course), as they are creatures of practice, focus, discipline and honor - for ill or for good, of course, matters not....
Whew. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2003 : 06:12:37
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Arion, you took the words right out of my mouth. Well, not really -- your explanation of "lawful evil" was better than the one I was forming . . . . Very good job. Maybe you should write for the 4e PHB? 
And as for the paladins . . . well, I haven't gotten down the list to the topic I posted last night, asking about this same subject. I guess now I've got it answered without even reading what other people have posted there . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2003 : 21:17:51
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| heh.. i know what lawful evil is... it's just as a kid to me that just seemed as an oxymoron... as most 'evil' things are against the law :P so to me... for so long (in the past) it just seemed a funny idea... |
I am like a superhero, with no powers or motivation.
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please keep me here.
People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2003 : 21:33:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Zacas
as most 'evil' things are against the law :P so to me...
I think that's the thinking of a person that is much lawful than evil, neutral or good. You see your opposite (chaotic) as evil. |
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Kelemvor question (SPOILERS)
