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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 17:17:34
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Skill wise, you can't get any better than Drizzt or Entreri at his prime (now he is aged a bit and slowed down a step or two). Although I would say Drizzt is a hair better (since he keeps beating Entreri at his prime).
Drizzt was going toe-to-toe with a marilith (6 arms and all) and was winning! He was outpacing a marilith! They have 7 attacks per round!
Hits points, stamina, regeneration, Chosen abilities etc...some tougher fighter can outlast the likes of Drizzt and Entreri. Thus Shurrpack (sp?) would eventually win. ...But for pure skill with the sword, they are as good as any.
Riven and Cale are great. Riven is a better swordsman than Cale, but I don't think he is as good as Entreri in his prime (although Riven would come close). Entreri may squeak out a win over Riven, even though Riven is a Chosen of Mask.
Cale would win over Entreri because of his abilities (priest spells, shade stuff, insane regeneration abilities First Chosen of Mask etc).
But if they go only sword for sword (no spells/enchancments), Entreri would still beat Cale.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 17:34:31
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| Neither Drizzt nor Entreri are among the best swordfighters in the Realms, so yes, it *does* get better. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 17:47:40
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| It is kind of hard to judge a char's stats in combat ability when you are reading it in a book, autors tend to write what they do without taking much notice to stats(as it should be). but as an example take drizzt's stats in the old menzoberranzan boxed set. he is a special char with abilities that no figher or ranger has, in my campaign that is called the do'urden fighting style. and with the abilities from the menzo set he is a match for any. amd since artemis is his equal...... |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 17:49:47
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| Check the board, somewhere in Ed's replies he names the best swordsmen in the Realms, and neither Drizzt nor Entreri is among them, novels be damned. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 17:52:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Check the board, somewhere in Ed's replies he names the best swordsmen in the Realms, and neither Drizzt nor Entreri is among them, novels be damned.
well, then, Ed is wrong |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 17:58:36
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| Well, Ed is cannon until another source says otherwise. Now, who is better than whom discussions will usually be more a matter of taste and subjective meanings, but I am curious, where has it been said right out that Drizzt and Entreri are among the best swordsmen of Faerun? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 18:02:53
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Check the board, somewhere in Ed's replies he names the best swordsmen in the Realms, and neither Drizzt nor Entreri is among them, novels be damned.
well, then, Ed is wrong
So the creator of the setting is wrong about it? 
I think I can safely avoid this thread from here on... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 18:06:44
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Hehe I'm assuming MerrikCales response was a little jokey :)
I've had this conversation a number of times with a friend who doesn't understand the difference between 'balance' and 'the same'. It always comes down to him thinking wizards are 'the best' after a certain level.
The point is that different situations call for different skills, abilities, and powers, so there is really no fair way of comparing two characters, classes, races, or indeed many things :) |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 19:07:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
Hehe I'm assuming MerrikCales response was a little jokey :)
I hope so  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 20:25:27
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| Is having a bad case of deja vu here about Ed being wrong... hmmm. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 21:45:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Check the board, somewhere in Ed's replies he names the best swordsmen in the Realms, and neither Drizzt nor Entreri is among them, novels be damned.
well, then, Ed is wrong
So the creator of the setting is wrong about it?
I think I can safely avoid this thread from here on...
In all fairness these boards are a discusion on peoples opinion aswell as cannon BUT after reading this whole thread I will agree with the hamster. Though I had to put in my 2 peneth!
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 21:51:20
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| Well known does not make the best fighter, the material richist people of the Realms are not all that well known. The same clearly applies to the best sword fighters of the Realms. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 00:44:34
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I'm pretty sure that actually both Drizzt and Entreri are in the list. The list was based on technical ability with a sword (or at least blade if you want to be picky about scimitars). And like all such lists, is fluid and subject to change. The list Ed gave is as follows, starting with the 'best':
Harmel Artru (NE hm Ftr9/T7: Dex 17, Cha 16)
Methrammar Aerasumé
Loaros Hammarandar (LN hm Ftr14: Str 17, Dex 17)
Ember Tsartaera (LG hf Ftr15: Str 16, Dex18)
Skoalam Marlgrask (CN hm Ftr18: Dex 17, Con 17)
Drizzt Do’Urden
Lyaunthra Aldegal (CG hf Ftr17: Con 17)
Sraece Telthorn (CN hm Ftr16/Thief-Acrobat7: Dex 18, Cha 16)
Artemis Entreri
Ulmaer Rivrymm of Sheirtalar (LG hm Ftr14: Str 16, Dex 18)
Aka ‘the Questmaster’ [[NDA, sorry]] |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 02:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Check the board, somewhere in Ed's replies he names the best swordsmen in the Realms, and neither Drizzt nor Entreri is among them, novels be damned.
well, then, Ed is wrong
Yes, well... 
And how exactly did you reach the conclusion that the creator of the setting is wrong? I'm curious...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 05:15:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Check the board, somewhere in Ed's replies he names the best swordsmen in the Realms, and neither Drizzt nor Entreri is among them, novels be damned.
With all respect to you Mace but..... that sounded a bit fanatical. roleplay is not governed by absolutism(at least I think so).
and as you now see, Drizzt and Artemis are on that list |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 06:17:37
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| I dont see how Mace's comment sounded fanatical. I think drizzt is one of the best swordfighters on the sword coast but that doesn't really mean much. There are thousands of swordfighters that could match him they just arent so privileged to be the subject of bards tales. Like, any of those "whose the best spellcaster" threads there are so many unknown players that never get a chance. This is beside the fact that everything is relative and the concept of a heirarchy of warriors (fighters and battlemages) is nonsensical. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 12:47:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Check the board, somewhere in Ed's replies he names the best swordsmen in the Realms, and neither Drizzt nor Entreri is among them, novels be damned.
well, then, Ed is wrong
Yes, well...
And how exactly did you reach the conclusion that the creator of the setting is wrong? I'm curious...
to be "a little jokey". As they say in Wayne's World "fished in". |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 14:48:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
I dont see how Mace's comment sounded fanatical. I think drizzt is one of the best swordfighters on the sword coast but that doesn't really mean much. There are thousands of swordfighters that could match him they just arent so privileged to be the subject of bards tales. Like, any of those "whose the best spellcaster" threads there are so many unknown players that never get a chance. This is beside the fact that everything is relative and the concept of a heirarchy of warriors (fighters and battlemages) is nonsensical.
I see your point, and of course everybody is entitled to their opinion, even myself to mine |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 15:51:00
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I have yet to chime in on one of these discussions, but this one has become a little interesting.
I can understand why people would like to know which fighter is the best/toughest, but I don't understand how, other than looking at levels, feats, and ability scores, how this can be judged.
Not to dispute Ed Greenwood, Lord of all realms forgotten, but how is a Ftr8/Thief 7 with a 17 Dex and a 16 Cha a better swordsman than everyone else? I believe that I've read that Ed doesn't want the realms to be all about numbers and whatnot, with every character's stats available, but without looking at each fighter's personal abilities which effect the way they fight (str,dex,etc.), the amount of fighting experiece or training experience they have had, and the feats they have dedicated towards the art of swordplay, I don't know how you can rate them.
Perhaps we are looking at a "knack" that someone has for swordplay that makes them more gifted than others more experience than them? I don't know. What I do know is that I have a lot of experience in both marksmanship and mixed martial arts, and without the necessary physical abilities (str,dex,etc.), long hours of dedicated practical training (skills/feats), experience in either competition or actual combat (experience/levels), you do not become better than others in these things and you will not defeat others who have put in their time unless it is a total fluke.
My comment may annoy some people, but that is not my intention. This is just my own personal opinion, which I would like to share.
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My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 16:10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Conlon
Not to dispute Ed Greenwood, Lord of all realms forgotten, but how is a Ftr8/Thief 7 with a 17 Dex and a 16 Cha a better swordsman than everyone else?
I guess it all depends on what feats a guy takes. For example, if this 8th level fighter/7th level thief has taken all of his feats to improve his swordplay, then yes, he is a better swordsman than, say, a 20th level fighter who has spread his feats around to make himself more versatile. The 20th level fighter is a better warrior, but the swordsman would win in a sword fight.
The other way of looking at this is by taking comparative levels into account. For example, yes, there is a better swordsman out there, but our 8th level fighter/7th level thief is the best of the 15th level characters. And he's considered the best in the Realms because he is so much better than all of the other 15th level characters out there that, were he to gain levels, he'd still far outpace them. And, of course, as in any world, any setting, no matter how good you are, there is always someone better. That's just a fact of life.
And as a side note, I personally prefer playing masters of a single weapon, such as a sword, when I play fighters, and the situation above, where I say a 15th level specialized character is better than a 20th level generalist character, is feasable. Just don't ask him to pick up a longbow.
Edit: In hindsight, what the heck am I doing, getting involved in a "Who can beat who?" debate?!?  |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
Edited by - Silvanus79 on 22 Oct 2006 16:11:50 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 17:14:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Conlon
Not to dispute Ed Greenwood, Lord of all realms forgotten, but how is a Ftr8/Thief 7 with a 17 Dex and a 16 Cha a better swordsman than everyone else?
Keep in mind that levels aren't necessarily a reflection of skill, they're a reflection of experience. Harmel Artru may not have been in as many fights as Skoalam Marlgrask, for example, but that doesn't mean that he's not quicker and handier with a blade. Skoalam has just gotten out and done more.
And experience does not necessarily equate to skill. Fantasy fiction, in general, has many tales of young swordsman who, simply through training and practice, become skilled enough to defeat the grizzled old warrior who is their instructor. The instructor has more experience and thus more levels, yet his younger charge has more skill and speed and thus can beat him.
I'm sure if you look around in real life, at all the people you know, you can easily find people who may have done something for far longer than someone else, but who have less skill at it. Heck, look at the video game stereotype, which has happened to me. I've played many video games since I was a little kid, and yet I can still walk into an arcade and find some little kid who has to stand on a stool to play a game, but could beat me before I even blinked. |
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Haman
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 21:27:20
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quote:
Keep in mind that levels aren't necessarily a reflection of skill, they're a reflection of experience.
Actually, levels are EXACTLY that, a reflection of skill and experience.
I know what road you are going down, that "romantic, power of words and scenes over simple numbers, the weight of drive and uncalculable will in a world of fluctuating variables", which I wish was the case too, but it's not. In novels that may be (and usually is the case), but when the designer gets caged in and puts down the numbers and levels of said character, then they've stepped through that door as well, the door into our world which IS numbers/levels/experience.
We have rulebook after rulebook, all cementing in this rigid structure of skills and experience. Levels are basically put: A reflection of skills (seen in skill points and feats) and experience.
I think Ed erred in putting down those stats (yes, I DO believe that Ed can make mistakes, go easy on me). Personally, I think he should have just put down the name, and left "levels/classes/numbers" out, letting those who desire that kind of information imagine what they will. But since he did, then I can say with absolute certainty, that if I was to play a Drizzit with his levels and powers (say on a mini board somewhere), then I could easily defeat you with a Harmel Mini. That's if we took them out of the stories and plopped them down into a sterile world of numbers and miniboards....which is kind of what most people do when they cage in a character with numbers, AND what I think most people wish to do when they discuss "Who can beat who, who's the best" topic threads.
I'd rather have no levels, and be content with imagery and that romanticism I mentioned...but alas, that isn't the game we play in.
quote:
I've played many video games since I was a little kid, and yet I can still walk into an arcade and find some little kid who has to stand on a stool to play a game, but could beat me before I even blinked.
Heh, I know exactly how you feel...jst like when I go downhill skiiing in the winter (which I've been doing 15 years now) and some little punk goes flying by all graceful and leaving snow in my face....grrr...sorry, but we have to admit, they ARE better than us, and if we had to "stat" it, it'd show that.
Numbers can't lie.
Mod Edit: Edited out and changed the bit that breaks the CoC. Behave people. |
Some people say we gamers have no lives....I think we have too many. |
Edited by - Kuje on 22 Oct 2006 22:23:11 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 22:09:05
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Well, I try to stay out of this discussion as I have little usefull to add but I seem to remember Ed putting down the levels after a specific request. The first answer to the question were without levels.
I still think the answer concerns pure skill in the weapon. There's no reason for the levels to be high as I see it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 23:09:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Haman
quote:
Keep in mind that levels aren't necessarily a reflection of skill, they're a reflection of experience.
Actually, levels are EXACTLY that, a reflection of skill and experience.
Nope, just experience. You'll gain experience by slaying endless numbers of minor enemies, and that experience will give you more levels than the guy who stays in a city and only duels other swordsmen. But, in a straight-up test of skill, the city guy is the one who wins.
quote:
Originally posted by Haman
quote:
I've played many video games since I was a little kid, and yet I can still walk into an arcade and find some little kid who has to stand on a stool to play a game, but could beat me before I even blinked.
Heh, I know exactly how you feel...jst like when I go downhill skiiing in the winter (which I've been doing 15 years now) and some little punk goes flying by all graceful and leaving snow in my face....grrr...sorry, but we have to admit, they ARE better than us, and if we had to "stat" it, it'd show that.
And right here you prove my argument: you've got experience out the wazoo, and someone with less experience is showing more skill. So your greater number of levels as a skiier doesn't equate to better skill.
quote:
Originally posted by Haman
Numbers can't lie.
Sure they can... But in this case, they're not lying. We're just not all reading them the same.
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Haman
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 23:44:58
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I agree that there is a difference between a character's skill and capabilities when dealing with a novel "pure story" aspect, and a Rules aspect. Personally, I like the "pure story" aspect. But the line between them are crossed when someone takes a character out of a story and tries to quantify it with numbers. That line was crossed when Ed assigned stats to the guy. Now that NPC is in the realms of numbers, and can't live up to what we want him to (There are no bonuses to "force of will and coolness", unfortunately). In this Realm of Numbers, he WILL be beat by anyone who's numbers are higher....you can argue that all you want, but it's a fact (barring REALLY unlucky die rolls, but I'm just going even more mechanical by assuming averages).
quote:
Nope, just experience. You'll gain experience by slaying endless numbers of minor enemies, and that experience will give you more levels than the guy who stays in a city and only duels other swordsmen. But, in a straight-up test of skill, the city guy is the one who wins.
First off, I have no idea why you chose to boil it down to "Fighter A will fight minor enemies, and Fighter B duels other swordsman. Which begs to ask why you didn't make the jump to Fighter B fighting minor swordsman also, thus negating your example, but I digress...
Secondly, in the Numbers system of D&D, Skill at a weapon is determined by these things:
-Increasing Base Attack Bonus, which rises in level and experience.
-Increasing Skill points (which allow for, say, 'Balance' checks when fighting on a ledge or something cool you see in movies)
-More feats, in which you can gain "Whirlwind" or "Weapon Specialization".
-More Hit points which allow you to shrug off more blows (which may not seem like a "skill", but I think it qualifies).
The more experience you get = the more levels you gain = the more skills you gain = the more skilled at a blade/fighting/etc... period. This cannot be argued, but I think you will anyways.
I do wish that "heart" and "will" and "dueling just others that have swords" could be represented numbers wise, but they can't be.
And as far as the little kid out-skiing me, I don't make the assumption that he has more experience than me and that he's better. That one is a no-brainer, it's because he doesn't value his well-being as much as I and can take more risks (like we all do as kids!), AND that he most likely has a higher Dex than me (which I think skiing is TOTALLY based off of!) for now, that is. Heh, he'll slow down like we all do. I am not skiing up to my "level", I am skiing to enjoy it, thus you can subtract some of my 'Skimaster' levels when compared to him....He IS skiing up to his level. Or put another way, Put a gun to my head and tell me I have to shoot the moguls in 3 minutes, or else, and I bet I will beat that kid... |
Some people say we gamers have no lives....I think we have too many. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 00:31:14
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| Nope, I'm done arguing. You're either ignoring my points or twisting them, and either way, it does not make for a reasonable debate. So I'm done with this thread. |
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Haman
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 01:07:45
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Okay.
Though I don't think I was the one ignoring points...
To get back to the topic, I see 3 options:
1) Number wise I think Drizz't would beat Cale, straight up.
2) Novel wise, It would be up to the author writing, not numbers or our opinions.
3) We all give up and recognize that these debates are purely personal opinion in the end.
Ciao |
Some people say we gamers have no lives....I think we have too many. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 01:27:09
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I think there are two points to be made
1) the Realms novels often do not reflect the "reality" of the Realms RPG
2) for the novel's action scenes to work, sometimes the authors have their characters do/accomplish things that no PC of there given level could do in the RPG
so basically, if you compare a novel character to it's RPG counterpart, it is often like comparing apples and oranges...Drizzt being the strongest example of this, IMO
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 04:17:32
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While discussing the abilities of various characters that we enjoy is something that is completely understandable, in essense this is entirely a subjective debate that has to do with fictional characters. While not phrased exactly in this manner, this thread amounts to a versus thread, which is generally something that we try to avoid here.
Essentially, versus threads, especially concerning protaganists from different series, obviously evoke strong feelings in many fans, and as such, can lead to strong reactions. Similarly, it is an extreemly rare circumstance when such characters ever meet one another, let alone actually come into a situation that might resolve the question of "can X beat Y in a fight."
As a side note, Ed did specifically mention in his response to this very question that he was narrowly responding to "who the greatest swordsman" was, not who the greatest warrior was (i.e. who would survive the most physically intensive fight) or even who the greatest weapon master is (i.e. anyone that doesn't use a sword would be counted out, even if they were exceptionally talented with their given weapon). He further elaborated that he was using solely, within the confines of the setting, the techniques and moves that are generally ascribed to a talented duelist using a sword. In other words, someone that was talented at "fighting dirty" might be more effective, but lower on the list, as would someone with a great deal of insight and perseverance that rarely "fences" but waits for one good shot to make a telling blow.
Also, the nature of D&D combat is not to be taken literally. It has been stated many times that hit points aren't literally how much physical damage one can sustain, but luck, stamina, and endurance as well. Not every attack that "hits" can be considered an actual physical blow, and when a given fight is "translated" back into the fictional Realms, it could be that while the rules say that a given character has hit another 10 times, what "really" happened is they scored a few glancing blows and wore out their opponent then made only one real serious strike to a vital area.
I would also point out that feats such as weapon finease, weapon specialization, combat expertise, improved disarm, improved feint, improved critical and perhaps dodge, mobility, and spring attack might indicate someone trained in "sword play," while a character of the exact same level might have feats like power attack, sheild bash, and toughness and represent a fighter that has a more direct, less "refined" style, and yet both are about as effective as the other is, in relative terms.
Even using D&D internal logic, with a few bad (or good) rolls of the dice a 16th level fighter might defeat a 20th level fighter. In that case, the 16th level character would have been the better fighter, at that time, in that place, until another challenge came around. Theoretically a fairly low level character might get a critical hit on a character much higher level and lay him low, and while the event might not be typical, it does represent who was better at that given point in time. In fact, D&D uses dice to randomize such results to reflect such changing viccicitudes for this exact reason.
As for the peripheral discussion within this thread about the greatest swordsman in the Realms, this was Ed's original reply in the "ask Ed" thread at this site:
Well, now. “Swordsmen” you say, so I’m going to narrow my reply down to: male living (not dead or undead) humans.
I’m going to further qualify my reply by saying that among the most skilled masters of bladework, “best” becomes a matter of opinion regarding style, and the average observer can’t identify (let alone properly interpret) most subtle differences because they’re either dead too quickly, or too dazzled by things that happen too swiftly for them to see properly and too deftly for them to measure or grasp the implications of (matters of shifting a foe just a little off balance, or forcing a movement in stance or location, that will lead to a killing stroke three or four maneuvers later).
Moreover, “best” is a steadily shifting title, even when one sets aside divine and magical meddling, because (as with real-world tennis) youthful speed and acrobatic suppleness, plus freedom from injuries and the slowing and crippling effects of aging (on, say, the human knee), must always be balanced against the experience gained in duel after duel after battle: young swordsmen are always rising to the fore, but only step into the ranks of the “best” when those more expert through real-life practice grow too slow to defeat the most skilled younglings (or the younglings overcome their inexperience).
I’m also going to restrict myself purely to matters of bladework, in a one-on-one fight in surroundings that favour neither combatant. In other words, I’m minimizing “street smarts” or dirty fighting or the adventurers’ experience in exploiting traction, lighting, obstacles, distractions, and all of that: factors that seasoned adventurers (like Durnan of Waterdeep) can use to defeat foes who might be a shade faster or a whit better in pure bladework. This will work against Artemis Entreri, for example, but also against a host of other adventurers whom I won’t even mention in this reply, but who might otherwise show up in my answer.
(Personally, I’d rather not do any “best of” rankings, because I think they’re subjective, snapshots of moments in time that are dated even as they’re made, and a bit pointless. Even in pure-skill tournaments, upsets occur, and if a DM wants to create an unknown who’s better than the individuals mentioned here, go right ahead.)
However, I probably possess the best overview of the entire tapestry of the Realms of anyone (though not all that far ahead of, say, Messrs. Boyd and Krashos, closely followed by Schend, Hunter, and Grubb), and can speak from that strength - - not being limited, for instance, by published Realmslore.
So you’re really going to have to trust me here, when I say that the best bladesman in the Realms right now (1375 DR) is: Harmel Artru, a darkly handsome, agile, glib-tongued and lady-charming merchant seacaptain (and sometime pirate), who sails The Winsome Lady independent caravel out of Saerloon (and a secret base somewhere in the Pirate Isles).
Only a whisker-width behind Artru is Loaros Hammarandar, a broad-shouldered, grim giant of a man who can hurl his prodigious strength and bulk around like an acrobat, and is an ever-wary-of-treachery mercenary warmaster currently under hire by Narubel, who commands “the Swift Sword” cavalry force used to quell bandits and unrest in that city and its surrounding farms (and dedicates himself to quietly eliminating all threats to the current rulership, prosperity, and status quo in Narubel).
Close behind Artru and Hammarandar are Skoalam Marlgrask and then Sraece Telthorn.
Skoalam Marlgrask is a professional duelist who travels Chessenta as the champion of whomever sponsors him in duels, making huge sums (because everyone locally knows he’s “the best” in duels, and so tries to outbid opponents seeking to hire his services) that are usually paid in gems and used by Marlgrask to immediately buy property, notably an ever-expanding string of inns and taverns. Marlgrask is polite, saturnine, nondescript of looks but quietly luxurious of dress, and seems able to sense danger (crossbow snipers, for instance) before it can reach out for him. He’s known to be resistant to many natural poisons (having learned this the hard way), but now takes great care regarding what he eats and drinks (hence his purchase of many inns and taverns).
Sraece Telthorn is a smallish, agile, almost feminine man who can dance, tumble, balance, and spring with a skill and precision matched only by the greatest acrobats (once leaping off a parapet to land perfectly balanced on a sloping, protruding flagstaff far below, for instance, and often springing over the slashing swords of opponents). He teaches “swordplay” (fencing) in Yhaunn and Waterdeep, and is believed to travel between the two by means of secret portals of unknown origin and location. Telthorn lives simply, is unambitious (avoiding power and important patrons, and giving much of his coins away), and is beloved by many pleasure-lasses of Waterdeep, who regard him as a kind friend or honorary brother as well as a frequent client.
I’d put the infamous Artemis Entreri after Telthorn, though I could be persuaded to rank two other male human bladesmen between them: Ulmaer Rivrymm of Sheirtalar (a smiling, wax-mustached man of good nature but lightning-swift reflexes and keen sight, who is personal bodyguard to the Overking of Lapaliiya, and can juggle scimitars to entertain), and Aka ‘the Questmaster’ (the mysterious sponsor and trainer of adventurers) who dwells, these days, in the wilderlands of the Sword Coast North.
If I widen my reply to include human females, two must be inserted: Ember Tsartaera between Hammarandar and Marlgrask, and Lyaunthra Aldegal between Marlgrask and Telthorn.
Ember Tsartaera is the tall, cool of manner and sparing of words Knight of Arms (weaponsmaster, or trainer of bodyguards and soldiers) to Lord Albin, ruler of Furthinghome in Aglarond, where she dwells. Ember dresses plainly, lives in spartan surroundings, and is always under iron self-control, keeping to herself and crafting masterwork swords when she’s not practising using them or training others to do so; she never raises her voice (though she can be coldly, cuttingly firm), is always alert and anticipating trouble, and has an acrobatic fighting style; she’s famous in Furthinghome for catching hurled daggers and arrows in flight.
Lyaunthra Aldegal has recently settled in Waterdeep, though she still retains homes in her three previous bases: Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Secomber. “The Lioness” is a superb maker of bladed weapons and tools (who learned her skills from her now-dead parents), who can resharpen and balance almost any fragment of a mistreated item. She owns and travels between small weapon shops in Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Secomber, and specializes in finding just the right weapon for a client, and in weapons-training and -practising with select clients. Known to have ironguard protection afforded by a wearable item (a choker or anklet, most believe), she’s also known to be able to withstand great pain, once (in the days before her ironguard protection) slaying a killer who’d put his blade through her hilt-deep, and then (despite being hit by both acid and fire magics) staggering through four rooms to get healing potions, managing to drink them and pluck forth his blade without passing out. Aldegal is a fire-haired, rugged-looking woman who takes numerous lovers, arrives and departs quietly and unexpectedly, and is seldom to be found where one expects to find her.
Quite a roster.
If I now widen my reply further, to include elves, half-elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes (note that I’m still excluding shapechanging races and multi-armed intelligent “monsters”), I’d put Maethrammar Aerasume between Artru and Hammarandar, and Drizzt Do’Urden JUST behind Marlgrask.
However, ask me this a year from now (Realms time), and - - even if there haven’t been fatalities - - these rankings may have shifted around quite a bit. As I said, among individuals of this skill, determinations are whisker-thin.
So saith Ed. Whew. Warned you, didn’t I? What Ed and all of we original players share when reading or listening to debates about “bests” and most this or that of the Realms is that there’s so much as-yet-unpublished Realmslore about this everchanging world that Ed crafted and continues to detail and expand, right alongside other writers (so the argument that “well, we can’t go by Ed’s original, we can only discuss the published Realms, that’s diverged so much from his original” goes right out the window). I happen to agree with Ed that rating “best” bladesmen is a bit pointless because it’s so subjective, changes so fast, and has such little practical roleplaying value - - but I fully understand Feanor’s curiosity in wanting to know. It’s a longing to know and understand the Realms more fully that we all share.
And I hope we will always continue to do so!
love to all,
THO"
I beleive this has fairly well run its course. Though not exactly a "poll" I would directed all interested to these particular points of the Code of Conduct for the site:
Before posting a new topic, use the Search feature on the forum, located on the main menu. The feature is reasonably flexible and can help you locate the information you seek, and thus prevent a new duplicated topic from being locked or deleted.
and
Polls in the vein of “Character A vs. Character B! Who would win?” are not encouraged and are likely to be closed by the moderators.
That having been said, that you for your participation, but I do beleive its best to shut this one down before the discussion grows too heated, and also, because of the reasons that I have detailed above.
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me or Alaundo.
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