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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 16:43:28
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Poll Question:
Okay the question is should Psionics have Epic level powers ie 10+ level powers. I have mixed feelings about this as i love psionics and feel it should be balanced, thus giving it epic level powers. Yet i don't think it should be a copycat of mage magic, i want psionics to be unique, thus no epic level psionics but something equally cool. What do you all think!
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"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 16:47:06
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
Okay the question is should Psionics have Epic level powers ie 10+ level powers. I have mixed feelings about this as i love psionics and feel it should be balanced, thus giving it epic level powers. Yet i don't think it should be a copycat of mage magic, i want psionics to be unique, thus no epic level psionics but something equally cool. What do you all think!
Of course they should...and if you ever saw some of the (2E) psionic powers from the Darksun books The Will and the Way and Dragon Kings you can see they already had near-epic psionics
There was a psionic ability that created an anti-magic field around you...and another one that was basically "if i don't believe it exists then it can't hurt me" that made you invulnerable to whatever you wanted
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 17:03:46
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Maybe i should rephrase that for the Realms do you think they should? See i think they should but i would call it something else to help seperate it from the Mage dominated world we live in! Viva la psionic revolution! 
okay now thats just funny  |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 17:04:24
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| It would be a cool idea, but given that the only culture to extensively work with psionics on this level in the Realms is Jhamdaath, and the fact that WOTC seems to be shying away from epic level support (i.e. all of the singular planar entities, elder elemental evils, etc., were expressly made assuming that PCs will cap out at 20th level), I doubt we will see defined epic level psionics in any great detail. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 17:26:50
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| I think it should be epic psionics but with different seeds - based on powers (and ELH rules enables that despite many errors), simple as that. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 22:58:40
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| I greatly enjoy psionics, but I use them in their full 2e, Dragon Kings, Will and the Way glory. Definately ups the scariness of your random illithid or aboleth encounter. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 00:46:33
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| Yeah i could see it doing that if you use the Darksun rules. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 01:24:16
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The thing I like about the High Sciences is that they're extremely powerful, but they fit very well into the flavor of each discipline, and they take half of forever to get if you're adventuring in a typical dungeon crawl, a few days here, a few days there manner. Taking a character out of commission for several months or longer is a significant cost for a player, even if the ability is great.
But then, I'm always in favor of giving players tools with which to be creative, and psionics in general, and High Sciences in particular, are definately that. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 04:55:46
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Heck yes Psionics should be Epic!
I've already including this in my Realms Campaign by allowing one of the PCs to include 9th level psionic 'spell' slots as a form of contribution for casting custom epic spells.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 13:31:15
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If you are going to use Psionics in your Realms, then i see no reason why they woudn't have epic level powers. Personally, I love Psionics (I played a Dark Sun game for years). But I keep Psionics in my Realms to a minimum.
So while I voted "yes", it's very unlikely you'll ever run into a Psion in my FR. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 13:59:18
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after reading my other posts I would like to add an addendum to my comment:
epic psionic powers should be a "lost art" to about anyone except the illithids (and maybe the yuan-ti and gray dwarves)...as we know now, not since Jhamdaath has there been a surface civilization that would have developed epic psionics
since canon stays canon until updated and I havn't seen any change in this canon, the 2E hardcover Forgotten Realms Adventurers says that psionists/psions are a new class that is developed shortly after the Time of Troubles (which we know from new canon used to exist before the fall of Netheril) thus epic psionics would be a new frontier too.. |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 17:33:17
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
after reading my other posts I would like to add an addendum to my comment:
epic psionic powers should be a "lost art" to about anyone except the illithids (and maybe the yuan-ti and gray dwarves)...as we know now, not since Jhamdaath has there been a surface civilization that would have developed epic psionics
since canon stays canon until updated and I havn't seen any change in this canon, the 2E hardcover Forgotten Realms Adventurers says that psionists/psions are a new class that is developed shortly after the Time of Troubles (which we know from new canon used to exist before the fall of Netheril) thus epic psionics would be a new frontier too..
Not quite. FRA writes psionics out of the Realms. From page 6 of that tome:
quote:
Player characters with psionic abilities as described in the appendix of the original Player's Handbook lose those abilities and gain nothing in return for that loss. Players may choose to retire such characters if they wish, but in any case, psionic powers are gone from the Realms.
However, earlier in that same section, we are told that (emphasis mine):
quote:
Detractors of psionics state that it has never existed, while supporters say that it did once, but the death and merging of Mystra with the nature of the Realms itself has modified it beyond human scope, and the long process of rediscovery must begin again.
As we saw in Menzoberranzan, with the seige of House Obladra, psionically empowered individuals did not lose their powers, they simply had to relearn how to access them. So I don't see the ToT as an impediment to the use of epic psionics from before then.
As for the fall of Jhaamdath removing epic psionics, that doesn't work for me, either. Just because no civilization explored that path, it doesn't mean individuals didn't. We can't even say that all epic psionic types were killed in the fall of Jhaamdath, for some could have been elsewhere.
And even if, by some freak mishap, all epic psychers were killed when Jhaamdath fell, there's still be enough time for other folks to (re)discover those same abilities. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Oct 2006 17:36:04 |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 20:24:01
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I agree with Wooly on that! wait who said that?
I also feel that there has been more than enough time even if all epic psionics was completely wiped out in the Fall of Jhaamdath, I understand that psionics is rare and that their wouldn't be a host or gaggle (<--- sorry just love that word) of epic weilding psioinists all of the sudden i mean other than the Illithids who probabbly have recovered the majority of Jhaamdath's lore, there just aren't that many people in the Faerun world to be able to use the psionics of that power, besides which Wizards is kinda anti Epic adventures right now anyway. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 15:15:40
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In my opinion, they do need epic psionics, but it needs to be balanced. I saw many 2E games end because of players who knew way too much about how to abuse the psionics rules. They were not balanced. I will allow Psions in my games, but I keep a close eye on their power. Ever since watching a psionicist slay a dragon single-handedly in 2E without ever moving from his initial spot, I have been very leery of the powers of the mind.
On the other hand, as rare as epic psionics would be, I think there is great potential for villainy there. Something different for jaded epic PCs. |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 15:22:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Silvanus79
Ever since watching a psionicist slay a dragon single-handedly in 2E without ever moving from his initial spot, I have been very leery of the powers of the mind.
I did that too! |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 15:55:48
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I never had a second edition Psionist to be honest my dm was very much of an pain, course what do you expect from a guy who tries to kill his players off! :P course we fought back the best guy in our group had all the rules memorized and the dm always asked him if we or he could do that. Can't complain though i conquered Battledale, at one time.
Mod edit: Removed the curse word. Okay, come on people, what's with the swear words this week? This is the third thread with cussing! |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Oct 2006 16:57:46 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12094 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 21:42:33
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The essence of arcane magic is the arcane caster molding an outside source and weaving it to an end. He does not produce this effect, he just molds it to his will.
The essence of divine magic is the divine caster requesting the ability to mold an outside source and weaving it to an end. He does not produce this effect, he just molds it to his will.
The question comes down to... what is psionics, and why is it different than arcane magic? As I understand it, psionics are powered by the individual. Thus, inherently, arcane and divine magic should be capable of performing "bigger" deeds because they are simply guides for energy.
Epic psionics should not be like epic magic. An epic psion isn't necessarily going to be able to produce more and more energy for his effects, no matter what kind of willpower he has. However, an epic psion should be able to become better able to manipulate his effects (thus possibly, increasing his DC's or adding meta-psionic effects on the fly or somesuch). Psions shouldn't be cheated out of things, but they definitely should be a different thing from epic magic. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 04:51:10
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| The most fun I ever had with psionics in 2e was running the Night Below campaign. My players learned to FEAR psionics (and I made half of them be psionicists at the start to give them a fighting chance). |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 18:05:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
The most fun I ever had with psionics in 2e was running the Night Below campaign. My players learned to FEAR psionics (and I made half of them be psionicists at the start to give them a fighting chance).
what part of Night Below did you include psionics? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 05:26:55
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| I cast my vote with a yep |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 17:28:01
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| An interesting adendum to this would be What psionic Epic powers do you think are in the realms already? Ie the Elan creation power is probabbly there already! |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 15:53:59
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| Of course. Psionics are fun. I have not used it often but every time I have it was memorable. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alediran
Acolyte
Argentina
36 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 19:13:00
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| Don't forgett that with all the Epic level Arcane casters currently alive on Faerûn there are few who know how to cast Epic Spells, using the same proportion, it could be deducted that, except from Illithids, the posibility that Epic Psionics aren't available is really high. |
Alediran of House Tir'ent from Evermeet, the most knowledgeable elven family about Faerûn.
- Member of the Elven Netbook proyect |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 14:50:19
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| We don't use psionics...magic has all that pretty much covered... |
'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 17:07:28
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| I voted the first choice |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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TheLemming
Acolyte
Austria
16 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 18:30:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
epic psionic powers should be a "lost art" to about anyone except the illithids (and maybe the yuan-ti and gray dwarves)...as we know now, not since Jhamdaath has there been a surface civilization that would have developed epic psionics
I have to pretty much agree with that opinion.
I like psionics in the realms - I love it with several races like illithids, but I would rather not see epic psionics in a sorcery-like style - not for normal psions - more for races who've more than just dabbled in the art of mindmagic.
"Normal" epic-powers would finally make the mindmage very boring to me - I think if someone would work on this - it would need some special approach. |
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Basil the Geek
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2008 : 04:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
Maybe i should rephrase that for the Realms do you think they should? See i think they should but i would call it something else to help seperate it from the Mage dominated world we live in! Viva la psionic revolution!
okay now thats just funny
It’s funny you put it that way. Some DM’s here stick way too hard to realm’s dogma and an anti psion bias so, when asked to run a campaign I pained over the fluff text and smacked them with a psionic curve ball to haul down their happy little arcane party. So far it’s been a great laugh.
In my Xinlanal against the gods, aka hubris, aka Karsus’s last laugh campaign I’ve taken the weave and divinity bull by the horns by throwing a bunch of atheistic psions at the realms who can all tap their powers within, having no connection to realmsean pantheons, the weave and what not. I’ve leveraged the Ardents “philosophic” view and said all psions use some manner of this “bypassing gods, accessing philosophies directly” to tap the same metaphysical source power the gods do via their portfolios. In a sense I’ve said the psions (and anyone for that matter) are “like” gods just not divine, sharing an ability something akin to what the Ur priest figured out they can do.
To these much changed descendents of a 1700 year imprisoned Netherese enclave, the realms pantheons are nothing but powerful usurpers manipulating and controlling the ignorant masses, coddling children, squashing real individuality, crushing personal and technologic development so as to stay on top of the heap, hiding the real truth that anyone can become a so called god.
One player describes the adventures feel much like when Captain Kirk drops in on some culture frozen in stasis by a tyrannical collective, computer, individual, etc and then proceeds to “free” everyone to experience the pain of freedom accepting the realms powers have the upper hand. Another says it’s like running around being communist revolutionaries tipping over every leader’s national apple cart.
I got the idea to run this from Everett B. Cole’s Philosophical Corps stories from old 1950’s Astounding issues. Think Star Trek but with a thoroughly meddling “anti” Prime directive.
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KacyCrawford
Acolyte
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2013 : 18:21:08
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| I think Yes. They Should have Epic 10+ Psionics |
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Should Psionics have Epic level powers too?
