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Aquanova
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 00:42:50
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Hey guys, it's me again. I was looking through Volo's Guide to All Things Magical today (w00t for old module downloads on WotC's site), and when I came to the section on elixir a couple of questions hit my mind.
From what I'm seeing, rather than the "Cast the spell itself into the vial" sort of magical procedure for potions in 3e, elixirs seem to be more alchemical and lack the actual casting of any spell(s) at all.
What I'm wondering, would potions be able to be concocted with purely alchemical means, such as in The Elder Scrolls series (just collect the ingredients and follow the intricate brewing procedure), or would such a non-magical brewing method be the whole reason behind the danger and instabiilty of elixirs?
(I'm asking in the fluff sense; I understand the RAW for 3.5, but I'm asking this for a storyline standpoint.)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 04:37:38
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I could see it going either way, honestly... Though I don't like the idea of simply casting one spell to make a potion, I'm also not fond of "a pinch of this and a touch of that" being all it takes to make a magical potion... I'd go for a mix of the two, myself: the ingredients and preparation have to have something to do with the end result, but there still needs to be at least a related spell to "activate" the brew.
A suggestion for doing this in-game, keeping in mind that I am utterly unfamiliar with the 3E rules for potion crafting: Go with the mix idea I mentioned above, abd have it give a bonus to the crafting check (or whatever) for the potion. In other words, using related ingredients would make it easier to make the potion. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4704 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 05:33:41
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As best I can tell craft costs are different between magical potion (which requires infusing with a spell) and a mundane potion (infusing with herbs, components). Nactural effects tend to be more limited in power, there again 3.X limited the level of magical potions as well.
The DC for a nactrual cure light wounds, could be high allowing for failure. Potions can only be tested once so failure is only known on use is one way to go, in theory a magic infused potion also could fail (thoug crafting rules for magical potion does not indicate this can occur).
Ed has indicated that Realms herb treatments do work far better then claims from RW , but the list of such nactural herbs is limited. Also transforming an herb into a potion, exlixer or salve might distoy the herbal property.
I can see shaman (non clerical) indeed being herb wise enough to safely produce some mixes that would have the same effect as a Cleric can produce under divine guidence. I can also see the Cleric using small samples of herbs that the non divine crafter would need to use more of to achieve the same effect. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12227 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 17:20:50
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| There is an item creation feat that lets you use herbs to create one shot items. I believe they were called infusions. It was in the 3.0 masters of the wild book. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Aquanova
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 19:23:47
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See, what I was thinking of was alchemical, with natural ingredients but also mixed with rare special ingredients and magical components (say, like parts of a magical creature, or some eldritch material) to compensate for the lack of an actual spell being cast; essentially allowing non-spellcasters to create a potion of Cure Light Wounds or Bull's Strength or such. Basically, taking poisonmaking and applying it to potions.
I was thinking of the procedures like in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical on elixirs--almost exactly what I was thinking of, actually--what with the almost utter lack of spellcasting and dependent on alchemical lore and special ingredients.
I had at first thought that such potions without actual spellcasting in the creation would naturally be weaker, but looking at elixirs (which have far more powerful effects than potions), it makes me think it would indeed be possible (however rare and education-dependent it is) to use such methods to make regular potions.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
There is an item creation feat that lets you use herbs to create one shot items. I believe they were called infusions. It was in the 3.0 masters of the wild book.
Oh really? Huh... I knew I should have picked up all of the splatbooks and not just Sword & Fist. |
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Aquanova
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 21:45:13
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| Any other thoughts or takes on this? |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 20:43:33
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Ed's idea, when creating the Realms (pre-D&D), was that "natural source only" potions, ointments, etc. have a lower level of efficacy (except for certain poisons) than substances that incorporate either spells in the creation process, or use as an ingredient material that has been enspelled (or both).
love,
THO |
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Was reading VGtATM--potion & elixir question
