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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 14:40:38
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I was wondering, is there any kind of undead besides Liches and Vampires that a rational evil character might choose to become? Like a lessor aristocracy of a lich-ruled empire?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36995 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 15:18:11
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Undead are one of the most common types of critters in D&D... It is my opinion that there are too many. I think it is ridiculous when the monster description says that this type of undead is created when a mage is killed by a falling anvil while whistling a magic missile spell backwards.... And no, that's not an actual example, but there is at least one type of undead that is created by a mage being killed with one type of magic while casting another specific spell.
Anyway, my point is that if there's a specific role you can think of for undead, there's prolly 17 critters in the various monster books that would fit it. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 17:02:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Undead are one of the most common types of critters in D&D... It is my opinion that there are too many. I think it is ridiculous when the monster description says that this type of undead is created when a mage is killed by a falling anvil while whistling a magic missile spell backwards.... And no, that's not an actual example, but there is at least one type of undead that is created by a mage being killed with one type of magic while casting another specific spell.
Anyway, my point is that if there's a specific role you can think of for undead, there's prolly 17 critters in the various monster books that would fit it.
When I made the 1e/2e NPC list and was thinking to myself, "Man, you can't throw a bunny anywhere in Faerun without hitting at least one lich." There has to be at least 20 of them amongst the wizards, if not more. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 20:42:15
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| You might wanna take a look at the Ravenloft boxed set in which PC are involuntarily turned into undead......Requiem 'tis called |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 22:49:09
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I am not entirely sure on this one.
Maybe a Banelich? But aren't most of them destroyed? |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 01:27:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
You might wanna take a look at the Ravenloft boxed set in which PC are involuntarily turned into undead......Requiem 'tis called
I'd also recommend 2e's Van Richten's Guide to the Ancient Dead from RAVENLOFT, as well as Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead for 3e RL, which both detail a varied selection of other undead types.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 Oct 2006 01:28:32 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36995 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 03:22:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
You might wanna take a look at the Ravenloft boxed set in which PC are involuntarily turned into undead......Requiem 'tis called
I'd also recommend 2e's Van Richten's Guide to the Ancient Dead from RAVENLOFT, as well as Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead for 3e RL, which both detail a varied selection of other undead types.
I'm not familiar with the 3E Ravenloft stuff... Heck, I'm not even all that up on my Ravenloft lore. But, in 2E, there was a wonderful series of guides by Van Richten, dealing with many of the intelligent things that go bump in the night. These were compiled into the Monster Hunter's Compendium series. The lore may be from 2E, but it still represents a treasure trove for DMs -- because these books give you all sorts of infomation about how these critters think and operate, and it tells you exactly how to customize them to make them unique and something to scare the bejeebers out of even the most jaded PCs.  |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 03:56:23
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Swordwraiths don't have too many downsides, if you were an obsessive mercenary in life. (MM II)
Necropolitans are more or less designed to have little downside, if you are willing and able to survive the ritual. (Libris Mortis)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 05:09:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
You might wanna take a look at the Ravenloft boxed set in which PC are involuntarily turned into undead......Requiem 'tis called
I'd also recommend 2e's Van Richten's Guide to the Ancient Dead from RAVENLOFT, as well as Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead for 3e RL, which both detail a varied selection of other undead types.
I'm not familiar with the 3E Ravenloft stuff... Heck, I'm not even all that up on my Ravenloft lore. But, in 2E, there was a wonderful series of guides by Van Richten, dealing with many of the intelligent things that go bump in the night. These were compiled into the Monster Hunter's Compendium series. The lore may be from 2E, but it still represents a treasure trove for DMs -- because these books give you all sorts of infomation about how these critters think and operate, and it tells you exactly how to customize them to make them unique and something to scare the bejeebers out of even the most jaded PCs.
The 3e RL monster books -- specifically the Van Richten's Guides -- tend to build on the initial lore for the various undead types on 2e RL. They're not as *good* as the 2e sources, but used in cojunction with older sources for undead should provide the DM with a significant amount of TSR/WotC/WW published lore regarding the undead.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 Oct 2006 05:10:42 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 05:16:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
When I made the 1e/2e NPC list and was thinking to myself, "Man, you can't throw a bunny anywhere in Faerun without hitting at least one lich." There has to be at least 20 of them amongst the wizards, if not more.
No kidding theres 3 Liches inside or Under Waterdeep and theres at least one more within a days ride of the citys walls |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 06:03:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
When I made the 1e/2e NPC list and was thinking to myself, "Man, you can't throw a bunny anywhere in Faerun without hitting at least one lich." There has to be at least 20 of them amongst the wizards, if not more.
No kidding theres 3 Liches inside or Under Waterdeep and theres at least one more within a days ride of the citys walls
Exactly. Between them and dragons, Faerun is pretty much covered. :) Especially if it's a dracolich. HAHAAH. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 15:44:51
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| Another source you might consider is the Ghostwalk accessory for 3E(I think...I'm at work right now and don't have access to my library, it might be called something else). Anyway, it is packed with ideas for playing undead characters. I have yet to find a use for it in my games, but was definitely a fun read. |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 16:31:19
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| There are "necropolitans", which are not powerful at all, but they are undead spellcasters that you can turn into through ritual. They are in the Libram Mortis. Essentially you lose one spellcasting level in return for undead powers and you have no level adjustment. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 17:05:28
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| Along a similar line, does anyone have any ideas for incorporating the rules from Ghostwalk into a Realms game? Is there even room for a city of undead? Just an interesting thought I had while bored at work... |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36995 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 17:32:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Silvanus79
Along a similar line, does anyone have any ideas for incorporating the rules from Ghostwalk into a Realms game? Is there even room for a city of undead? Just an interesting thought I had while bored at work...
There is if it's incorporeal or in another plane.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 18:07:31
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| Now there's a thought...an alternate plane that looks and feels exactly like Waterdeep or one of the others, but full of undead. I think I just found my next campaign idea... |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2006 : 02:15:50
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| I love Vampires as bad guys. Our campaign has encountered a knightly order of vampires. Fun stuff. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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acro
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 13:56:49
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| Anyone familiar with the zombies of forgotten realms, I'm currently reading the Scions of Arrabar Trilogy, and it didn't really explain how they where formed at first. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 14:09:32
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quote:
Originally posted by lowtech
I was wondering, is there any kind of undead besides Liches and Vampires that a rational evil character might choose to become? Like a lessor aristocracy of a lich-ruled empire?
from the Book of Vile Darkness you could use the skeletal and corpse templates...thinking skeletons (think of Army of Darkness  ) and zombies |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 14:16:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
When I made the 1e/2e NPC list and was thinking to myself, "Man, you can't throw a bunny anywhere in Faerun without hitting at least one lich." There has to be at least 20 of them amongst the wizards, if not more.
I was thinking about your comment...consider how long arcane magic and the "lich formula" have been around...then only one wizard per century became a lich, how many would that be now? Then multiply by culture and race? And then probably double that for planar immigrants, accidental liches, the "magic empires", etc.
And then subtract by demi-lichdom, planar emmigration, destruction by accident and violence, etc.
Considering how liches are supposed to be so powerful, careful, far-thinking, etc. (a la VonRichten's Guide to the Lich) how many possible liches could there be in the Realms  
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 16:25:07
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
[quote]
Considering how liches are supposed to be so powerful, careful, far-thinking, etc. (a la VonRichten's Guide to the Lich) how many possible liches could there be in the Realms
And how many of them ultimately work for Larloch? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 17:29:44
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
When I made the 1e/2e NPC list and was thinking to myself, "Man, you can't throw a bunny anywhere in Faerun without hitting at least one lich." There has to be at least 20 of them amongst the wizards, if not more.
I was thinking about your comment...consider how long arcane magic and the "lich formula" have been around...then only one wizard per century became a lich, how many would that be now? Then multiply by culture and race? And then probably double that for planar immigrants, accidental liches, the "magic empires", etc.
And then subtract by demi-lichdom, planar emmigration, destruction by accident and violence, etc.
Considering how liches are supposed to be so powerful, careful, far-thinking, etc. (a la VonRichten's Guide to the Lich) how many possible liches could there be in the Realms
Knight's Larloch comment is also interesting because most of those aren't stat'd and there's what, 40+?, right there.
But yeah, there are a lot of liches in FR all across the world. Just seemed, to me, to be a extra-ordinary amount. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Undead
