| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 16:36:57
|
I was just wondering what kind of role Elminster played in the eyes of the people of faerun. Would the death of Elminster been seen as a great loss or do the people not really understand how his actions benefit them so strongly?
The same goes for Alustriel, the other Chosen of Mystra, Laeral, Blackstaff and other similar figures...
|
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 17:00:24
|
Alustriel, Laeral, and Khelben are all pretty well known where they are from (Silver Marches, Waterdeep) so their deaths would have the same impact that any major figure/leader would have.
From what I gather, Elminster is known pretty well as a legend, but a lot of people don't know if he does exists anymore. I think the people of Shadowdale have a pretty good idea that he is a powerful retired wizard, and that he might be THAT Elminster, but most of them don't know for sure.
Oh, and I don't think that Elminster would be recognized by sight anywhere outside of Shadowdale. Alustriel has appeared at festivals and holding court, etc. And Khelben and Laeral have been seen in and around Waterdeep, so they might be pretty well recognized regionally (though there are no photographs in the Realms, so its only as good as your ability to translate descriptions into reality in that case). |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 01 Oct 2006 17:02:24 |
 |
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2006 : 09:55:41
|
The openly seen effects of these people are mainly local, so except for in limited areas I don't think it would be seen as a great loss for most people if they were to die. Few people care if a ruler in a far away country dies or give much thought to the idea that this would affect their own lives. If they have heard some stories about their deeds they would mostly write them of as bards tales anyway or legends about characters baring the same name as the person still living.
Most people outside of the dales would care more if a famous bard were to die than Elminster. I am then talking of the general populace of course; there will always be certain groups where this is not true. |
|
|
|
Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2006 : 13:13:45
|
| Beside the harper rankings, and certain power groups, Elminster could pass as a complete strange in almost all places. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
|
|
|
Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2006 : 13:37:28
|
| I'd imagine most people know of Elminster but like King Arthur or Billy the Kid they would feel his legend is exaggerated and greater than what he really is (while the truth is he probably tries to downplay his legend) |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12221 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2006 : 17:03:47
|
| For all the other chosen, I'd say this thread is correct (they have regional influence, though their regions are quite large... i.e. Khelben is known OF throughout the north and probably even as far south as Tethyr). Elminster, however, is a different beast. He's known to love the Simbul. He fights against Zhents, Dragon Cultists, Thayans, Malaugrym (though this is behind the scenes), and others. He's also got some favoritism in far off Tethyr. He's also known to have a special relationship with all of the seven sisters (moreso than say Khelben), so if someone is aware of one of them, they've probably heard of Elminster. In fact, it would almost seem that the seven sisters deal more with Elminster than each other (i.e. Alustriel seem more apt to turn to El than say the Simbul or Laeral <both of whom are "busy" as well with rulership of sorts>). Of course, in the Moonshaes, Luskan, Chult, etc... he would be more of a legendary figure. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2006 : 05:28:03
|
| hmm ... wonders ... would he be turned into a demigod or something when he die? :p |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2006 : 08:21:21
|
I am still not sure Elminster is that well known among most people outside of the Dales. In Cormyr and Sembia people in general might have heard of him, but the stories would be doubted upon and also exaggerated upon by local tellers. In other lands the name may be known, but as that of a mythic character. As with most of the Chosen, Elminsters battles are against threats not known by all in the realms, for example the Maulagrym.
Of the Chosen, the Simbul, which has never exactly kept a low profile would in my opinion probably be the best known, but the tales would be a mixture of legends facts and rumors.
The problem is that if you look back at medieval times, stories will travel, but they will change and at times morph into almost unrecognisable forms. The Arthurian legends became popular in the high medieval times, but the stories they were based on were by then hundreds of years old and were changed just as much as the Celtic myths used by Shakespeare. Even then they spread little outside of the lands of western Europe and would be little known among, for example, the Lithuanians and even the common people in the eastern parts of the Holy Roman Empire. Also don't forget that the size of the continent of Faerun compared with western Europe; there are some means of communications not known in medieval times, such as crystal balls and teleportations, but these are not commonly used by common folks and tale-tellers so most news and happenings will travel the slow paths of man.
Edited for clarity. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 03 Oct 2006 18:34:40 |
|
|
|
Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2006 : 11:16:11
|
Even if the whole lot of Chosen perishes, they may only be remembered for a decade or so, as new rising heroes will replace the grief of the people and the people will idolise new heroes over the fallen Chosen. It is my impression that the populace would only remember the fallen for what they did which benefitted them, but even so, the populace would deem the death of renowned Chosen like Elminister as a temporary loss and no big deal as new heroes will replace the fallen and soon memory of the fallen Chosen and their deeds will fade away, even among those who are their fans.
|
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
|
|
|
Rezzenthell
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2006 : 11:27:03
|
| I would think that someone who has lived 500+ years is known pretty much everywhere! ;) Elminster is a legend in the realms so he would be known more than most. |
Prepare to be abysserated fool !! |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2006 : 15:53:20
|
| i dont think the 500+years thing really matter because people only live so long. they might even think that they are just legends of these ancient heroes. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2006 : 17:26:41
|
| I'd go with what Jorkens has said, which is basically what Ed's said more then once about the Chosen. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2006 : 01:37:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I'd go with what Jorkens has said, which is basically what Ed's said more then once about the Chosen. :)
Agreed.
I also think it's important to note just how the people who do know of Elminster... know of him. El being Chosen isn't what most in the Realms would consider 'public knowledge'. Though El is known for other, less obvious, things -- take, for example, this quote from the 1e FRCS:- "For example, there may well be an Elminster the Barber, or Elminster of Waterdeep, but the reference of 'Elminster' (or even the more modest 'Elminster the Sage') refers to the advisor without peer who resides in Shadowdale."
An advisor, a sage... this is an example of how Elminster may be commonly regarded among those who actually know of him, have heard of him, or are aware of a sage/advisor type who currently resides in Shadowdale. And sages and advisors tend to be local knowledge, maybe also knownthroughout a given region of the Realms, and known, in distant lands... either through reputation or through knowing someone who has had direct contact with the master sage Elminster.
In other words, your common Realms folk may know of or about El, or the "less obvious" aspects of the other Chosen -- either by name, reputation, or what your grandmother said she once saw. However, these are details almost entirely based on bards tales or rhymes or myths (especially when you take into consideration the lack of a true and dedicated Faerun-wide communication network as Jorkens noted above), and they are what largely form the basis of most of the "public" knowledge regarding the Chosen and their "day jobs". Not intimate details, and certainly nothing specific, just rumor, hearsay, and idle speculation in the local tavern on a cold and wintry night.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 Oct 2006 01:38:29 |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2006 : 08:34:06
|
I would go so far as to say that the role of chosen is a legend more or less confined to wizards and worshipers of Mystra. Among others there might exist a few loose legends and tales, but nothing concrete. The mysterious Magister would, as a title, be a far more central character in tales and myths of magic.
There is also one important fact that must be remembered; these people are members of or allies of the Harpers. Now, the Harpers are sworn to spin tales from facts and sing the songs that are written, but that does not mean that they have any interest in spreading tales of Elminster and Storm as heroes of renown, and thereby increasing the focus on these by both enemies and Freestaves and "adventurers" out to make a reputation. Their songs may sing of the voice of Storm or the Kindness of Sylune. This honors the subjects and gives them a central place in the song craft and lore spread among the common populace, but that does not make them out to be heroes. Of course there are references hidden within the metaphors of the verse and song, making it possible to decipher their true roles for other bards or sages, but these must be sought after. Therefore the image of these people known by most people is not the one shown in gaming products, where it is clearly said that many of them live double lives or that their true importance is unknown. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Is Elminster reknowned?
