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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 06:57:53
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Has anyone ever seen rules for converting people to a characters religion?
Ive been playing around with the following
Preaching: once per month the character must attempt to convert another sentient being to his religion the character must spend at least one day preaching the glories of his god with the being he’s trying to convert. The next day the character may attempt a conversion check. A Conversion check is a D20 + characters charisma modifier +1 for each day after the first that the character spends preaching to the potential convert. The DC is 10 + Wisdom modifier + alignment modifier (+2 for each Alignment step the potential converts alignment is from that of the characters deity) + Religious class modifier (If the character has levels of Monk, Cleric, Paladin, Ranger or Druid then the potential convert adds the number of levels he has to the DC)
Good? Bad? Seen official rules some where?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 11:24:49
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| Seems good, personally I like the opposed check. I think you should leave some discretion on the DMs part to modify the DC. Particularly for cross-pantheon shifts (trying to get a human to worship lolth say), and taking into accounts some doctrines are wildly different (for example I think trying to convert from Bane to Tyr would be easier than Eldath to Tempus, despite the alignment shift being the same) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 11:30:11
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I do not know of any official rules.
An oposed check does appear to be the way to go if one wants to do this, but converting a PC might not work no matter what (some players will still play <foo> no matter what their patron deity becomes). Converting NPCs of course might be easier but could mess with the DMs game.
The Silverhair Knights is the closest thing I can think of that comes close to conversion and that only opened the door to changing deity, any deity. One must remember RF the deities are real and many. One there believes in many and can change patron deity (generally based on events) at will.
If you seek forced conversion I would use charater level instead of class levels of some classess. Knowledge (Religion) rant might be a better subsitute as Paladins, Clerics, etc. would more likely have ranks in that instead od a Fighter, etc. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 12:04:55
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Im working on Affiliations for the various FR churches and Im thinking of using the preaching (or something similar) as duties
Found something similar the Evanglist in CD has an ability called Convert the Unfaithful but its very simple and doesnt take in enough variables to really deal with the issue |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 30 Sep 2006 12:11:33 |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 12:14:22
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What about Perform (oratory), or even Diplomacy/Bluff?
As for the potential converts, I'd say religion is about wanting to believe, which makes it a DM call. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 12:20:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
What about Perform (oratory), or even Diplomacy/Bluff?
As for the potential converts, I'd say religion is about wanting to believe, which makes it a DM call.
Perform oratory is what the Evanglist uses and the system (Will save DC determined by 10 + Class level + evanglist Cha modifier) is very basic and doesnt take enough into consideration Alignment etc
The system is meant to be used by Player characters on NPCs not by NPCs it wouldnt be possible to use it in combat you have to spend an entire day with the potential convert
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 12:32:15
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Conversion during battle?
That is a hard thing to do short of using complusion of somekind, a forced conversion by its nature is not a true conversion. What it soulnds like you are talking about is just a different form of charm person. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 12:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Conversion during battle?
That is a hard thing to do short of using complusion of somekind, a forced conversion by its nature is not a true conversion. What it soulnds like you are talking about is just a different form of charm person.
umm who are you talking to Snotlord or me? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 12:57:29
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Mostly you, Dargoth, in reference to conversion during battle.
One can design rules for it, but it becomes complusion. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2006 : 13:14:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Mostly you, Dargoth, in reference to conversion during battle.
One can design rules for it, but it becomes complusion.
Nah you CANT convert people in combat as I mentioned above youve got to spend at least a day with the potnetial convert preaching before you get a conversion check |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 00:43:21
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| My reading of that was a potential situation, where the preacher had been teaching the subject about his religion for a period of time, and then the subject was faced with a difficult decision while the preacher was there. To me that would be a suitable place for a check, to see if the NPC heeds the preacher's advice or not. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 01:02:30
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I like that idea. In a situation where the new deities doctrine would counsel a significantly different action to one that the original deities doctrine would counsel, then a check be made to see if he/she follows the new or the old deities doctrine  |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 01:20:18
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| Note that said situation would only work for NPCs, PCs can make their own minds up. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 02:01:46
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| Have you looked at the rules for Redemption on Page 28 of the Book of Exalted Deeds? Could use a varient of them, perhaps, seeing as Redemption could easily imply converting someone to your religion (not going to spend all that time telling a LE Banite that he's wrong without converting him from his god, right?) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 02:13:23
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| There are some rules for this in the Book of Hallowed Might as well (not official, but its a Malhavoc Press book by Monte Cook). There are two feats in there that make you more persuasive in your preaching, though they are a little more geared toward redeeming the evil than just converting them to your faith. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 02:28:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Have you looked at the rules for Redemption on Page 28 of the Book of Exalted Deeds? Could use a varient of them, perhaps, seeing as Redemption could easily imply converting someone to your religion (not going to spend all that time telling a LE Banite that he's wrong without converting him from his god, right?)
Interesting.... its sort of similar to what I posted but with a few interesting differences... Hmm I think the 7 saving throws is probably a bit much and the preaching isnt trying to change the NPCs alignment just their patron deity |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 02:33:52
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| To use a modified version of what was described in the Book of Hallowed Might . . . if the character is already of an amenable alignment, and they aren't an official part of any other religion, you could have them make a will save against the DC of the charcter's diplomacy skill (this is what is suggested in the feats I mentioned in the book). |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 09:35:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Have you looked at the rules for Redemption on Page 28 of the Book of Exalted Deeds? Could use a varient of them, perhaps, seeing as Redemption could easily imply converting someone to your religion (not going to spend all that time telling a LE Banite that he's wrong without converting him from his god, right?)
Interesting.... its sort of similar to what I posted but with a few interesting differences... Hmm I think the 7 saving throws is probably a bit much and the preaching isnt trying to change the NPCs alignment just their patron deity
I'm personally quite happy with conversion being very hard to achieve. It's certainly not a decision to be taken lightly, and at the very worst the one being converted risks becoming one of the False |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2006 : 00:01:59
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| I agree that it shouldn't be something that happens easily or quickly in the majority of circumstances. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Game Mechanics for Preaching
