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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 18:52:03
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In the campaign I'm making, Shar decides to use the Crown of Horns as a weapon against a new Chosen of Mystra, and she plans to use that Chosen for her own schemes. She gets Myrkul's full cooperation by promising to restore his godhood in return for letting her use the Crown (if Myrkul didn't want to cooperate, he could just teleport away).
My question is this: What could Shar gain by controlling a Chosen of Mystra? It's the only hole in the logic of the campaign I can see right now, and I would really appreciate if someone more knowledgable than I would like to tackle this issue. Thanks.
Calrond
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 19:09:58
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It's a cool question, not sure of the answer other than having a "shadow weave chosen"...but I have one for you
if Myrkul regained his godhood, what would he be god of? Kelemvor and Velashroon (sp?) would definately not give up their portfolio...and Myrkul would be barely a demi-power anyway (rank 1-2) due to lack of worshippers.. |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 19:22:25
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I was thinking that Shar might try to use a Chosen of Mystra to weaken Mystra since they're at the same DR now. If Shar weakens Mystra by just 1 rank, she will become the most powerful god in Faerun, other than Ao, by divine rank.
While weakening Mystra wouldn't last long, there would be a window of opportunity for Shar to strike at Mystra for control of the Weave
And as for Myrkul, I would think that even a divine rank of 1 or 2 would be better than being trapped inside the Crown of Horns.
As for whose porfolio Myrkul would steal from, I would think he would take something from Velsharoon's portfolio. Myrkul couldn't do it alone, but with Shar's help (especially if Shar's plan to weaken Mystra works) the two of them could take on Velsharoon and at least get something from his portfolio (necromancers, necromancy, undeath, evil liches).
I don't plan for Shar's plan to succeed, but I need a high-quality reason for Shar to want to control a Chosen of Mystra. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 20:15:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
I was thinking that Shar might try to use a Chosen of Mystra to weaken Mystra since they're at the same DR now. If Shar weakens Mystra by just 1 rank, she will become the most powerful god in Faerun, other than Ao, by divine rank.
While weakening Mystra wouldn't last long, there would be a window of opportunity for Shar to strike at Mystra for control of the Weave
And as for Myrkul, I would think that even a divine rank of 1 or 2 would be better than being trapped inside the Crown of Horns.
As for whose porfolio Myrkul would steal from, I would think he would take something from Velsharoon's portfolio. Myrkul couldn't do it alone, but with Shar's help (especially if Shar's plan to weaken Mystra works) the two of them could take on Velsharoon and at least get something from his portfolio (necromancers, necromancy, undeath, evil liches).
I don't plan for Shar's plan to succeed, but I need a high-quality reason for Shar to want to control a Chosen of Mystra.
Those are cool ideas...and remember hurting Mystra always is a shot to Selune too...so for Shar to cripple Mystra is a plus for her side in the ultimate war of Shar vs Selune |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 21:37:26
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One problem: Myrkul isn't interested in regaining his lost godhood. From the City of Splendors boxed set, which first described the reformed Crown of Horns:
quote:
Myrkul actually enjoys his new existence and the ability to foment dissent, chaos, and death without the strictures inherent in being one of Ao's gods; his greatest satisfaction is in disrupting the organization of the Cyric-worshipers and in destroying any worshipers of Mystra (who caused Myrkul's destruction).
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 22:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
My question is this: What could Shar gain by controlling a Chosen of Mystra?
intriguing idea 
Possibly she will look for a new Chosen, someone who don't have much experience with the new status (eventually this person is tutored by some older chosen ...). She can use this one as a kind of "object of study" to better understand the pros and cons of the Silver Fire, to find some flaws so she can hurt the others( i.e. the Seven Sisters). Maybe she find a way to draw throug the Silver Fire power out of Mystra.
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Edited by - Dewaint on 22 Sep 2006 22:06:23 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 22:27:32
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It's rather unlikely that anyone can steal Mystra's silver fire. Quoth Ed:
quote:
Mystra can forcibly wrest her divine essence (the silver fire) directly from a mortal, but in doing so loses it forever, weakening herself (it does not ‘find its way back to her’ in the normal way, but is GONE). So she won’t do it.
That doesn’t stop Azuth, working with her, from doing it (she’d probably fight any other deity trying it on a mortal located on Toril, and win by using the Weave against them).
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 00:07:38
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Hmm. If Mystra thought that she could rescue her Chosen from Shar and the Crown, I don't think she would risk snatching her essence from them and weakening her, them, and her other Chosen in the process. She would be better off letting Shar use one of her Chosen for a while than to weaken all of her resources permanently. And I'd think that if she told Azuth that she planned on rescuing the Chosen under the control of the Crown, he wouldn't go against her wishes and snatch her essence from the Chosen. The gods don't have any cause to be too hasty.
Also, that is a problem with Myrkul, but he would get the opportunity to spread more chaos, death, and dissent than normal if he is controlling one of Mystra's Chosen. So that works better than the godhood idea. Thanks Wooly Rupert!
And the Chosen that Shar is after is a new one, of my own design. The mystery about him is that he used to be a vampire until recently when Mystra made him a Chosen, so when the Crown of Horns is put on his head, by Shar, against his will, the Crown transforms him back very quickly, on the order of weeks rather than the 2 years it normally takes to transform the person into an undead.
And then, the real fun will happen. But eventually, I'm hoping the PCs will rescue the new Chosen and there will be many more adventures for this guy. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 00:08:13
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I couldn't see Shar gaining anything from "stealing" a Chosen of Mystra. If she directly interfered with a Chosen of Mystra, Mystra would have every right to do everything in her power to stop her before the Crown could actually affect the Chosen.
The difference with Laerel was that there was no divinity directly involved.
And the Crown of Horns doesn't work in actually "corrupting" Chosen due to their Silverfire. It just drives them insane.
It really wouldn't weaken Mystra, either. She's a sort of constantly "full well" that's regularly replenished, which is why she has the Chosen. Every Chosen she has represents external power to her; it doesn't add directly to her DvR in any way. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 23 Sep 2006 00:10:45 |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 00:46:40
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Hmm. Interesting. So the Crown doesn't turn Chosen into undead, it only drives them insane. Alright, I'll change that part of the plot, no problem.
First, I would consider it more as Shar "borrowing" a Chosen. And since Mystra wouldn't let her put the Crown on his head herself, Shar would have to have one of her worshippers do it for her. Not a problem either.
As for the "Why", I'm not sure what Shar would stand to gain by it either, other than as a guinnea pig like Dewaint suggested, or so that Shar could use Mystra's power to her own means.
Anybody else think of a reason why Shar would want to control a Chosen of Mystra? |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 00:50:42
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Well, it sort of depends on why YOU want Shar to control* (not that she'd be able to at all, since she couldn't even beat Mystra in Halaster's mind, and Halaster wasn't even a Chosen, AND was already somewhat tainted by the Shadow Weave!) a Chosen of Mystra?
* By control, I mean, cause one to go insane. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 01:25:52
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There have been at least 2 chosen who have been corrupted/Driven mad
Sammaster
Aloevan (A Chosen of Mystra and the elven Pantheon)
As for why Shar and Mykrul would want to corrupt a Chosen:
Spite: Mystra has been Shars enemy for centuries and Midnight killed Mykrul during the time of Troubles so theres no love lost between these deities and Mystra.
Weaken her: While a deity cant steal the Silverfire from one of Mystras Chosen by corrupting/driving mad one they could weaken her presence on Faerun by removing an agent she can not quickly replace (The recruitment process for Chosen of Mystra seems to take centuries)
Research: Shar may want to create her own version of Silverfire for the Shadow weave but she needs to study a Silverfire wielder to figure out how it works (A sane Chosen is unlikely to be coperative) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 02:07:57
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The stats for the Crown can be found here.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Crown_of_Horns
I like the ideas, Dargoth, and I've got a feeling I'll use all three in some way. Shar would use the opportunity as a way to strike at Mystra and expand her own power. I thought of spite at first, but spite alone didn't sound good enough for Shar's motivation, but with the possibility of research, and to weaken Mystra, that's reason enough for people to suspend their disbelief.
Ah, and good thing it wouldn't turn the Chosen into an undead, because then if the Crown teleports away, the Chosen would instantly be destroyed.
I think it's shaping into a nice plot, hopefully one that can be ongoing.
Does anyone have anything else to add? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 14:03:11
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Shar has already indicated her desire to gain silver fire as recounted in Ed's novel "Silverfall".
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2006 : 15:53:16
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Personally i think that with her (Shar) experience from Silverfall, and maybe some time later as her bad mood bright somewhat up. she will try to strike directly at the Chosens. Well not directly at the old ones, but (as already mentioned) if a new one will arise, surely she will know about. She know now how the Chosen "works together" and will bear it in mind for her next move.
I will integrate this in my campaign, not as a possible adventure for my PCs but as background plot. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Calrond  . |
Edited by - Dewaint on 23 Sep 2006 15:54:17 |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 00:48:48
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| No problem guys, and I'm working on writing the backstory of this new Chosen. I've got a feeling I can use him for several adventures. Even made his name from Elvish to add a little class. I just have to write up the stats for him and I'll be in business. He's the weakest of the Chosen of Mystra (but that's like saying he's the poorest man in the Fortune 500) Just because he's only in his first century of life...rather than over an eon old like Elminster. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 05:08:01
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| Heh. A mid-level Chosen would be actually kind of cool, I think. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 05:14:55
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| Wasn't El only mid-level when he was Chosen? |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 22:19:39
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| Yep, Elmara was fairly low level when Mystra "touched" her. Or was it him, and then her, and then him again? Er... Never mind. I will take this opportunity, however, to bow to the infinite wisdom of other DMs who think as I do about power gaming. Thank you. I still have nightmares about the game I played in many winters ago wherein the DMs brother played a celestial Chosen of Mystra with Spellfire who fought with dual moonblades.....ick. |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 18:20:04
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Wow, doesn't sound like much of a game, sounds more like a massacre unless he was up against a few gods' avatars.
Also, I'm writing up the stats for my mid-level Chosen of Mystra. It isn't easy considering I'm trying to stay true to his backstory (evil wizard, evil vampire, changed alignments, Chosen of Mystra) but when I get it done it will be awesome.. |
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szasstamsgroupie
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 15:40:28
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| Don't ya hate power gaming, Silvanus? More fun to worry about that goblin with a stick, huh? :) |
Talk nerdy to me, baby! |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 17:22:05
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| Honestly, I'd worry more about the goblin with a stick if I waspower gaming!!! At least in a regular game you know he really is JUST a goblin with a stick........ |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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szasstamsgroupie
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 18:46:56
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| Oh yeah. Well, then... a goblin throwing rocks at you while making fat jokes about your peasant's mama. :) Oh, but wait... It is a +99 rock of head bashing. :) |
Talk nerdy to me, baby! |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2006 : 16:58:17
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*SPOILERS*
Well now I've got a new problem. The person who commissions the players to find the Crown in the first part of the campaign, before it is used against the Chosen of Mystra, is Laeral, and she gives them the mission from Blackstaff Tower in Waterdeep. I just finished Blackstaff (which is one of the best books I've ever read, btw) and it turns out that Laeral doesn't live in Blackstaff Tower OR Waterdeep anymore.
Originally, I had planned for Laeral to give them the mission because she "sensed" the Crown growing closer, being brought by Shadow mages. (Also, Laeral has a sixth sense having to do with magical items and artifacts in the 2E book, The Seven Sisters) Now, though, Laeral isn't in Waterdeep.
I need one of two things: 1. Who in Waterdeep (instead of Laeral) gives the mission to the players to prevent the Crown from entering Waterdeep (maybe Tsarra?) OR 2. Is there another way I can modify this campaign to make it fit with the Realms canon as it sits after the end of Blackstaff? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2006 : 17:08:33
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I don't see why Laeral couldn't drop in on them somewhere else... Also, what is the actual date of your campaign? If the date of your campaign is before the end of the novel, you don't have to worry about it.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2006 : 20:55:53
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| I think I'll just change the date of the campaign. It was going to be 1375, but I think I'll turn it back to early 1374 or even 1373. |
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Crown of Horns and Shar
