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sithdad
Acolyte
4 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Sep 2006 : 23:05:18
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I am currently reading Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad and I was wondering if there are any newer books to this Avatar series or does it end here? Crucible isn't holding my interest like Prince of Lies did so I am already looking ahead to continue or start another set of books.
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In the end, there can be only one! - Highlander |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2006 : 23:34:21
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quote:
Originally posted by sithdad
I am currently reading Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad and I was wondering if there are any newer books to this Avatar series or does it end here? Crucible isn't holding my interest like Prince of Lies did so I am already looking ahead to continue or start another set of books.
Well met
Alas, Crucible is the fifth and final tome in the Avatar series. There's a long-standing plea to get book 6, "The Return of Bane" written  ...but alas it will ne'er be  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2006 : 01:31:35
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Aye... unfortunately, that's right. WotC keeps telling Ed and other interested writers, no -- no "Return of Bane" book.
Of course, I'm still in the camp that says Xvim should've remained. Bane had his time. Xvim was a far better evil deity in my opinion.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2006 : 01:57:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Aye... unfortunately, that's right. WotC keeps telling Ed and other interested writers, no -- no "Return of Bane" book.
Of course, I'm still in the camp that says Xvim should've remained. Bane had his time. Xvim was a far better evil deity in my opinion.
Indeed. He had far more style than Daddy, and a cooler, more menacing-sounding name.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2006 : 02:47:10
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| Some of the characters from Crucible appear in the Return of the Archwizards trilogy if that helps any... |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2006 : 02:48:42
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| I would love to see a return of Bane novel as well :) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 13:49:52
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| Maybe Ao got tired of Cyric doing such a lousy job at being evil that he remade Bane... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 13:58:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I would love to see a return of Bane novel as well :)
between the 2E Cloak and Dagger and the 3E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting hardcover if you cut/paste the Fzoul/Xvim/Bane story you could almost have the "Bane Returns" novel there...
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 14:03:19
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Just bought Cloak & Dagger on Ebay... for 99 pence...yes that is NINETY-NINE PENCE   |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
Edited by - Mace Hammerhand on 22 Sep 2006 14:04:22 |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 14:12:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Just bought Cloak & Dagger on Ebay... for 99 pence...yes that is NINETY-NINE PENCE
how much is a pence vs a canadian or american dollar?
but it sounds cheap! Cloak and Dagger is, IMOP, the best of the "last" books made in 2E for the Realms... |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 16:46:23
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
Cloak and Dagger is, IMOP, the best of the "last" books made in 2E for the Realms...
It is, IMO, one of the best Realms sourcebooks for *any* edition. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2006 : 22:51:39
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Just bought Cloak & Dagger on Ebay... for 99 pence...yes that is NINETY-NINE PENCE
how much is a pence vs a canadian or american dollar?
but it sounds cheap! Cloak and Dagger is, IMOP, the best of the "last" books made in 2E for the Realms...
In € it would be about 1,50, in US$ it's prolly around 1,25 or so...
OK, I have to pay S/H as well but it's still damn cheap |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 02:32:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Xvim was a far better evil deity in my opinion.
Based on what exactly. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 02:55:06
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The name "Xvim" has more zazz than simple ol' "Bane." Xvim tended to have more style, and was less the "stereotypical tyrant" that Bane was. More importantly, Xvim had a sense of depth and mystery about him... and I like my deities to remain somewhat mysterious and to deviate from standard templates regarding "evil characters" and "gods."
Simply, Xvim was a fresh perpective on a very old notion.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 13:46:00
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| Is there any specific novel dealing with Xvim in more than your run of the mill villain way? In Finder's Bane there was a little, and Prince of Lies/Crucible had also a bit |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 14:04:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The name "Xvim" has more zazz than simple ol' "Bane." Xvim tended to have more style, and was less the "stereotypical tyrant" that Bane was. More importantly, Xvim had a sense of depth and mystery about him... and I like my deities to remain somewhat mysterious and to deviate from standard templates regarding "evil characters" and "gods."
Simply, Xvim was a fresh perpective on a very old notion.
** POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILERS **
I don't know...to me Xvim was Bane's bumbling, upstart, loser son...
all I remember of him (before the Time of troubles) was he was Bane's bastard son of a demoness who got his butt kicked by mortals over and over, like the Westgate thing and Storm Silverhand beating him...he seemed more like any other demon lord..just more inept..
It looked like the best thing that could have happened to him did happen in Bane's death but by the time he was actually getting in the swing of things (and I credit that more to Fzoul than Xvim) it turns out he was/became just a "seed" for Bane's rebirth
I wonder of Fzoul knew Xvim's true purpose and/or Fzoul and Bane had Bane's "back-up" plan already in place prior the ToT |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 17:21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
It looked like the best thing that could have happened to him did happen in Bane's death but by the time he was actually getting in the swing of things (and I credit that more to Fzoul than Xvim) it turns out he was/became just a "seed" for Bane's rebirth
I wonder of Fzoul knew Xvim's true purpose and/or Fzoul and Bane had Bane's "back-up" plan already in place prior the ToT
Actually, we don't know that for certain. It is reasonable to assume that Xvim was Bane's back-up plan, if you're willing to assume that the über-confident tyrant Bane would plan for his own destruction...
I have another theory that states that Xvim was an independent entity, who existed as his own being and wasn't a part of daddy's plans. However, after Fzoul went around doing his best to gather Bane's power for Junior, all the little bits of Bane inside Xvim, combined with what he'd inherited from being Bane's kid, achieved critical mass and overwhelmed Xvim. One thing that supports this is the way Bane's symbol changed upon his rebirth, particularly the fact that instead of going back to the black and red scheme, he stuck with Xvim's black and green colors...
Of course, that's just a theory. Obviously, I prefer it to the idea that Iyachtu Xvim was never anything more than a walking backup copy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 17:29:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
In € it would be about 1,50, in US$ it's prolly around 1,25 or so...
OK, I have to pay S/H as well but it's still damn cheap
damn! that is cheap! 
what condition will it be in? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 17:32:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, we don't know that for certain. It is reasonable to assume that Xvim was Bane's back-up plan, if you're willing to assume that the über-confident tyrant Bane would plan for his own destruction...
I have another theory that states that Xvim was an independent entity, who existed as his own being and wasn't a part of daddy's plans. However, after Fzoul went around doing his best to gather Bane's power for Junior, all the little bits of Bane inside Xvim, combined with what he'd inherited from being Bane's kid, achieved critical mass and overwhelmed Xvim. One thing that supports this is the way Bane's symbol changed upon his rebirth, particularly the fact that instead of going back to the black and red scheme, he stuck with Xvim's black and green colors...
Of course, that's just a theory. Obviously, I prefer it to the idea that Iyachtu Xvim was never anything more than a walking backup copy.
I think that is a really good theory...it creates the idea that if you gather enough divine energy from a god that died not from lack of worshippers you can "cobble" the god back together
another possibility is that Bane has multiple children for "back-ups" and Xvim was just the best one of the bunch...a'la Manshoon and his clones...
which sparks an idea of a possible "Bane War"
but then again, that was already done...i.e. the Bhall Spawn |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 01:05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, we don't know that for certain. It is reasonable to assume that Xvim was Bane's back-up plan, if you're willing to assume that the über-confident tyrant Bane would plan for his own destruction...
I have another theory that states that Xvim was an independent entity, who existed as his own being and wasn't a part of daddy's plans. However, after Fzoul went around doing his best to gather Bane's power for Junior, all the little bits of Bane inside Xvim, combined with what he'd inherited from being Bane's kid, achieved critical mass and overwhelmed Xvim. One thing that supports this is the way Bane's symbol changed upon his rebirth, particularly the fact that instead of going back to the black and red scheme, he stuck with Xvim's black and green colors...
Indeed. Wooly and I have discussed the symbol change-over before.
I can see Bane, after such an event, being a little different from what he was previously -- perhaps even existing as a merged being between both himself and what was left of Xvim.
His symbols and colour change to more closely match Xvim. That would also indicate more of a merge. Xvim's (ascended) symbol looked more like his dad's -- only with the hand sitting with the thumb facing the left, rather than the right like Bane's. And Xvim's symbols have always had eyes -- old and ascended.
Bane's new symbol has still got the black fist (facing the same way as his old symbol) and squeezing green rays. Xvim's symbols always had a green component to them -- in the form of those eyes on his symbols. Perhaps the green rays in the new Bane symbol could reflect Xvim's past existence with Bane -- maybe illustrating how Xvim was later replaced (or rather subsumed) by a resurrected Bane by the fact that his black fist is closing in on the green rays (that represent Xvim).
And we must not forget that Bane's old symbol had the black hand on a red field -- so Bane 2.0 is using Xvim's colors. The green mainly... though, as I said above, Bane's Hand is still the same in the new symbol as it was in the old -- just clutching rather than flat. Bane 2.0 is utilising Xvim's green.
If the "planned" explanation is used, then Bane should have kept his old colours of red and black. The fact that he's using black and green suggests that some of Xvim remains... And that's another interesting thing to consider: just how much of a tyrant would Bane be if he couldn't even retake control over, and subsume, his own son?
The more I think about this and the lore we do have, the more I tend to think that Bane's return was as much a surprise to him as it was to anyone else.
Though... Bane's Hand is squeezing the green rays -- and if we look at that from the "Bane-eventually-subsumes-Xvim" stand point, that image itself could suggest Bane is perhaps closing in around Xvim's remnants, or rather, slowly squeezing it out of existence (or rather again, completely consuming it).
It could be, if we assume Bane's Return was in fact an opportunity rather than something properly planned on Bane's behalf, that Bane's current image is transitory. Once Bane's completely consumes what remains of Xvim into his being... Bane's older symbol (or a new and reinvigorated symbol) may become apparent. Bane's resurrection then, will be properly complete.
It could also be that Bane's hand is clutching an object that is shining forth, despite his desire to contain it... Xvim perhaps. Sure, it's not appropriate for a god of tyranny, but it is an alternate interpretation. The aspect shining forth could represent also Freedom. Bane's squeezing or crushing it could suggest how tyranny is usually equated with the end of freedom.
If that's the case... then it's highly appropriate.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 08:01:17
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
In € it would be about 1,50, in US$ it's prolly around 1,25 or so...
OK, I have to pay S/H as well but it's still damn cheap
damn! that is cheap!
what condition will it be in?
It is in "read" condition, no wear'n'tear but you can tell it has been read. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Avatar Series
