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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 00:19:13
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Silly question time: do werefoxes (from 2nd Ed. D&D) exist on Faerun or not? And was there ever any info on them in the Realms or anywhere else beyond their Monster Manual entry?
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 00:25:17
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Hall of Heroes has a page or two on the different werecreatures that were never in core material and it's in the Kelemvor entry.
Monsters of Faerun for 3e says that all the were's are in FR and I see no reason why to not allow any of the were's. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 25 Aug 2006 00:45:46 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 00:29:28
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I have not seen them mentioned in the 3ed, but they are given a conversion in Thomas M Costa and Eric Boyds Bestiary of the Realms ( down-loadable for free from Eric Boyds page).
Now, as to further information, I believe Van Richtens guide to Lychantrophes is the best source. Its 2ed. Ravenloft but still highly usable in any campaign. I cant remember how much there is about Werefoxes in there, but is the only source I can think of. I don't think there's anything to be had in FR materials, but I could be wrong. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 00:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I have not seen them mentioned in the 3ed, but they are given a conversion in Thomas M Costa and Eric Boyds Bestiary of the Realms ( down-loadable for free from Eric Boyds page).
And here's the link: Realms Bestiary, Volume 1. It's a wonderful resource, and many of us are eagerly awaiting the long-anticipated release of Volume 2 (there is no set release date).
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Now, as to further information, I believe Van Richtens guide to Lychantrophes is the best source. Its 2ed. Ravenloft but still highly usable in any campaign. I cant remember how much there is about Werefoxes in there, but is the only source I can think of. I don't think there's anything to be had in FR materials, but I could be wrong.
The Van Richten's Guides were also wonderful resources, and I'd heartily recommend them to anyone who wants to deal with critters that go bump in the night. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 01:17:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Now, as to further information, I believe Van Richtens guide to Lychantrophes is the best source. Its 2ed. Ravenloft but still highly usable in any campaign. I cant remember how much there is about Werefoxes in there, but is the only source I can think of. I don't think there's anything to be had in FR materials, but I could be wrong.
Werefoxes are treated in the book itself, yes.
The Van Richten's Guides for the RAVENLOFT setting are great. They fall into the same category of "my favorite 2e TSR accessories" as the Volo's Guides.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 02:57:52
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awh ravenloft, ironically one of my favorite characters not my own that is mind you did a crossover from FR to Ravenloft, and back to FR best 30th level bard i have everseen played, i mean that guy knew his spells. ~awh sorry reminescing again~
werefoxes now i love those critters, right up there with werebagers and all. Did they ever redo the CatLords from 2ed, and not that crap in the Epic level book. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 03:32:36
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I really liked the Van Richten's Guides, too. :)
And as to the CatLords... To what are you referring, exactly? The Beast Lords of Planescape, or something different entirely? |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 03:41:19
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| well actually the catlords inthe short story about arabel, if anyone remembers that lol! Oh i love this guide btw werespider haha they do exist i knew it! |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 04:57:36
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Ahh, okay. Not familiar with that story. :) No help here, sadly.
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Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 05:34:06
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
Did they ever redo the CatLords from 2ed, and not that crap in the Epic level book.
I don't think the catlords have been updated to 3e. I'm not entirely sure on that, though...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 14:33:17
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Its in one of the realms of anthologies, i want to say valor, but it might be something else. On an interesting subnote concerning that subject the mention the superstision/belief that the people of Arabel have concerning cats and the afterlife, and i have seen something similar to that concerning Jhaamdath i believe. just interesting is all.
back to the subject at hand though i love the werefoxes although considering the werewolves are generally considered evil i woudl have made the foxes good, but thats just me i believe in balance. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
Edited by - VonRaventheDaring on 25 Aug 2006 14:35:41 |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 15:46:08
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Thanks all, and especially Wooly Rupert, for your advice and the link. The info on Realms Lycanthropes at it is very useful (and there really are weremoles of Urdlen? I thought that was a joke...).
And I also like the idea of non-evil werefoxes; but then, I would use non-evil werewolves, evil werebears and boars, etc. I figured that the alignment change listed for lycanthropes can be reversed or changed with enough effort on the part of the victim. Besides, such critters have already shown up in the source material, so it's 'canon' if that matters. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 15:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
Its in one of the realms of anthologies, i want to say valor, but it might be something else.
"A Virtue by Reflection" by Scott Ciencin -- from Realms of Valor.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 16:03:10
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quote:
"A Virtue by Reflection" by Scott Ciencin -- from Realms of Valor.
I remember that story. I thought it was great. Then again, I was spoiled by his amazingly good Harper novel The Night Parade, one of very few in the series that gave me a real sense of worry about the heroes' lives. |
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Torkael
Acolyte
39 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 07:25:42
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| Werefoxes, weremoles, werecats...where's the were'furballs'? Werehamsters with their become cute and fluffy +3 causing even trolls to stop and go "awww". |
"No, I will not create a song dedicated to dancing dwarves. Especially dwarves worshipping Eilistraee." - Tenasa the bard |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 18:37:34
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| Wasn't there a werefox goddess once? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 18:43:06
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| Eshebala; detailed in 2ed. Monster Mythology along with the other Were-gods. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 18:43:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Wasn't there a werefox goddess once?
Eshebala, the goddess/god of foxwomen. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2089 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 19:19:51
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A werefox appeared in an old, old Dungeon adventure set in the Dalelands, IIRC. (Or was that one of the Book of Lairs?)
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 23:44:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Eshebala; detailed in 2ed. Monster Mythology along with the other Were-gods.
Thanks Jorkens (and Kuje); I thought the name Eshebala looked familiar. It's listed in the back of Hordes of the Abyss, under 'planar rulers' or such. Eshebala's domain is named Vulgaria. (And I apologize to the writers, but that makes it sound like one of those phony Balkan nations from an old Three Stooges comedy.)
I also have a hard time imagining a vain critter like a foxwoman, let alone their queen/goddess, hanging out with a bunch of thuggish tanari. Their respective styles just seem too different if you know what I mean -- rather like finding a femme fatale hanging out with the local outlaw biker gang. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 01:07:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Eshebala; detailed in 2ed. Monster Mythology along with the other Were-gods.
Thanks Jorkens (and Kuje); I thought the name Eshebala looked familiar. It's listed in the back of Hordes of the Abyss, under 'planar rulers' or such. Eshebala's domain is named Vulgaria. (And I apologize to the writers, but that makes it sound like one of those phony Balkan nations from an old Three Stooges comedy.)
I also have a hard time imagining a vain critter like a foxwoman, let alone their queen/goddess, hanging out with a bunch of thuggish tanari. Their respective styles just seem too different if you know what I mean -- rather like finding a femme fatale hanging out with the local outlaw biker gang.
Well she's always been in the Abyss, at least since On Hallowed Ground where her layer was on the 193rd layer and it was called Vulgarea. Odd that WOTC changed the E to an I. :) It makes sense that she resides in the Abyss since she's CE.....
Now as I was going to say before, she might not reside in the Abyss in FR's new cosmology though. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 07 Sep 2006 05:22:29 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 05:19:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Now as I was going to say before, she might not reside in the Abyss in FR's new cosmology though.
Indeed.
I was just going to say the same thing until the mephits running rampant here at Candlekeep, ate my post...
Until we're told otherwise however, through the lore, it's likely we can assume she has some basis in the Abyss of the 3e FR cosmology.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 12:51:58
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(QUOTE) Werefoxes, weremoles, werecats...where's the were'furballs'? Werehamsters with their become cute and fluffy +3 causing even trolls to stop and go "awww".
I lost my favorite character to dwarf were-hamsters... viscious, biting little bastards... |
ShadowJack |
Edited by - ShadowJack on 07 Sep 2006 12:52:57 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 12:57:35
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quote:
originally posted by ShadowJack
I lost my favorite character to dwarf were-hamsters... viscious, biting little bastards...
Did they store gold in their cheek-pouches? |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 16:09:53
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I never liked the "werefox"...with it's limits to gender and race I felt it was like the 2E "weredragon"...almost not a true lycanthrope...it should ahve been a "foxwere"
I also thought a "real" werefox should have been a neutral or good lycanthrope like the weretiger or werebear...foxes do not have an "evil" reputation (which is what it seemed to me that decided a true lycanthrope's general alignment) |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 16:14:34
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
I also thought a "real" werefox should have been a neutral or good lycanthrope like the weretiger or werebear...foxes do not have an "evil" reputation (which is what it seemed to me that decided a true lycanthrope's general alignment)
I never understood the Were's alignments for any edition. Like why the wolf and rats are almost always evil. That makes no sense to me. I've usually changed the lycan's so that they are usually neutral with variant alignments, just like the rest of the races. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 16:17:09
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivarI also thought a "real" werefox should have been a neutral or good lycanthrope like the weretiger or werebear...foxes do not have an "evil" reputation (which is what it seemed to me that decided a true lycanthrope's general alignment)
The "must be evil" doesn't make sense to me either, but then, you can change it if you like. Heck, there are apparently quite a few CG werewolves of Selune out there.
I think the evil part comes from "vixen" having the dual meaning of a manipulative or shrewish woman. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 16:22:48
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quote:
Originally posted by KujeI never understood the Were's alignments for any edition. Like why the wolf and rats are almost always evil. That makes no sense to me. I've usually changed the lycan's so that they are usually neutral with variant alignments, just like the rest of the races.
Well ignoring Ravenloft in which all lycanthropes (except the wereraven) sooner or later "went" evil I found the alignments for the "Were"s usually dependant on Western society's perception of what "alignment" the animal was...
Look at the "good" lycanthropes...cats, bears, dolphins, dog, stag
now neutral lycanthropes...tiger, boar, leopard
and evil lycanthropes...rat, wolf, shark, bat, hyena, lion, snake, spider, pig
It doesn't always make sense but the "bad" animals are usually the evel lycanthropes and the "nice" animals are the good ones |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 16:50:12
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
Well ignoring Ravenloft in which all lycanthropes (except the wereraven) sooner or later "went" evil I found the alignments for the "Were"s usually dependant on Western society's perception of what "alignment" the animal was...
Look at the "good" lycanthropes...cats, bears, dolphins, dog, stag
now neutral lycanthropes...tiger, boar, leopard
and evil lycanthropes...rat, wolf, shark, bat, hyena, lion, snake, spider, pig
It doesn't always make sense but the "bad" animals are usually the evel lycanthropes and the "nice" animals are the good ones
Aye,
but we aren't discussing Ravenloft. :) Everything in Ravenloft usually goes evil sooner or later.
But you proved my point, the alignments don't make sense. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 16:50:28
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Jorken's,
I will never know, they bit my poor character in two as he was trying to pet them... Should have worked, he was a ranger after all... |
ShadowJack |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 17:11:24
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| Sean K Reynolds has a set of variant lycanthropy rules; it's a $5 pdf called Curse of the Moon. I've not looked thru it in great detail, but I know it attempts to fix what SKR feels are serious issues with 3.x lycanthropes, including alignment. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Werefoxes of Faerun
