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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 16:16:35
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Drizzt and Elminster are the only characters of those popular enough that Wizards demands continual books about them. Drizzt is popular because he's at once a hero, an anti-hero (with frisson of deviant sexuality), and a modern psychological individual. But knowing that doesn't allow one to duplicate him, because it's in Bob's execution and right-things-at-the-right-time luck. On the other hand, Paul Kemp's Erevis Cale follows, deliberately or otherwise, the same broad pattern.
Sharanralee is a legendary Harper adventuress based in Everlund, briefly mentioned in the Old Grey Box and half a dozen other sources. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 16:22:20
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Problem with "iconic" characters is that they cannot really be put into any formula.
Take two drow for example: one named Drizzt Do'Urden, the other Pharaun Mizzrym.
Both are iconic, and liked. I bet if Pharaun would receive his own series people would buy it and love it just as much as they do with the (early) Drizzt books. They aren't similar in any way tho, except their race. The funny part is Pharaun has enough introspection to rival Drizzt's, but he also has a sense of humor, which, in my book, makes him much more likeable.
Elminster also has a sense of humor, but Alias and Dragonbait don't, at least not very much.
If prowess of weapons is any indication of iconic characters, Drizzt wouldn't count either since there are quite a few better swordsmen around (Mods, please insert a link to the appropriate swordmaster answer Ed supplied some time ago here).
Does slaying dragons make a character iconic? Nah. Does it help? If the character is Sturm Brightblade, sure, otherwise...no idea.
There is no failsafe for a hero-character/icon.
Look at Star Wars, the first movies were iconic, as were the characters. That thing could not be repeated, no matter how hard people tried to copy the formula (including the series' creator himself!).
Same goes for music, Led Zeppelin is an icon. Would a band that made the same music today become as famous? No, they would not even get a record deal, because they aren't really video-clip material.
I think iconic is a cocktail of humor, skill, content, and above all: LUCK! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 16:28:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Alas, folks, we're unlikely to ever see those in trade paperback format, despite the fact that all the storylines would perfectly break into 4-issue collections.
TSR owns the rights to the characters and concepts of the FR comics.
DC Comics owns the rights to the art and pages as published. Since the demise of the comic license in 1992, there's no legal way DC could publish those without setting up a new license with Hasbro. And that's more money than they'd likely recoup in publishing.
That's a really shame! 
I know I'm still missing a couple of issue myself, and they're rare enough at online retailers to make it nearly impossible for me to complete my collection.
TPBs may be my only chance to finish the series.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 17:09:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Alas, folks, we're unlikely to ever see those in trade paperback format, despite the fact that all the storylines would perfectly break into 4-issue collections.
TSR owns the rights to the characters and concepts of the FR comics.
DC Comics owns the rights to the art and pages as published. Since the demise of the comic license in 1992, there's no legal way DC could publish those without setting up a new license with Hasbro. And that's more money than they'd likely recoup in publishing.
That's a really shame!
I know I'm still missing a couple of issue myself, and they're rare enough at online retailers to make it nearly impossible for me to complete my collection.
TPBs may be my only chance to finish the series.
I see them on eBay, from time to time. They've actually been popping up a lot more frequently, of late.
I had traded all my comics into my not-so-friendly comic shop the first time I bailed on comics. When the place folded, I made a point of getting them all back, plus the ones I'd missed.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 18:06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Drizzt is... an anti-hero (with frisson of deviant sexuality)
???
I'm sorry, but I'm hard-pressed to think of any character more prudish than Drizzt, or less an anti-hero. Salvatore's said himself in an interview somewhere that his books are the kind of books where the heroes always make the right decisions. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 18:48:56
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The frisson comes from the fact that he's a drow -- it's an exoticism that stems from where he comes from and what he might have been (I assume this comes out in Drizzt fanfic). His antiheroism is in his minor-key self-doubt and his hunter persona and, again, his race and its taboo-breaking danger.
Drizzt can be seen as an honest-to-goodness hero for people who think they're too cynical for that; it's inside a 'sweet coating' of edgy coolth that wouldn't be there if he was an otherwise similar character who'd been brought up in Silverymoon with its morality. |
Edited by - Faraer on 25 Aug 2006 18:52:29 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Von Seossk
Acolyte
27 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 05:47:26
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| Honestly, it's come to a point where I'd rather read about a character who is more enmeshed in the Realms than one whom the Realms seems to revolve around. I recently finished "Soldiers of Ice" and loved it. I don't even think the main character was ever mentioned again. Same with Venom's Kiss. An interesting, original character, and yet he wasn't some kind of world shaping presence like a Drizzt. Elminster and Drizzt are good for putting a face to D&D, someone who can basically be the spokesperson. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 06:09:35
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As reminded, I'm shying away from "what I prefer" (I think everyone got sick to death of me in that thread) and instead postulate that protagionists that are intimately tied to a setting or location tend to become more popular. Let's face it, the importance of Arilyn Moonblade is less about her actual wielding a moonblade than how much she's told us about Evermeet's Royal family and all of the Elvish culture in Toril.
I appreciate characters that are essentially "spokesmen" for regions. It's why I enjoy stories about Chosen, Monarchs, and other characters intimately related to a specific region as opposed to ones that just have their adventures and disappear. It makes the novels into helpful game hints as well.
I think that this is born out that this quality MAKES them iconic. Because it sort of becomes impossible to do a story about the Moonshaes without mentioning the King's adventures in this respect and the battle against Bhaal/late Talos. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 26 Aug 2006 06:11:37 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 08:44:11
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Personally, the entire royalty/yada yada thing doesn't have that much appeal to me. Take Moonshae for example. There wasn't really that much about Tristan that really wanted me to know more about the region. The guy was cliché.
In Crusade it wasn't that much about Azoun in relation to Cormyr it was about Azoun the statesman and military leader. That was cool, and not really iconic at all.
Arilyn isn't very iconic for elven culture either, but that's why I like her. Evermeet the novel doesn't even feature Arilyn. It's Danilo who writes the book, assisted by a bunch of sages, if I remember correctly.
Can't think of more right now...need caffein and nicotein... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 00:32:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Von Seossk
An interesting, original character, and yet he wasn't some kind of world shaping presence like a Drizzt.
I agree with your main point, but as I said before Drizzt isn't exactly a "world-shaping presence". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 00:34:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Arilyn isn't very iconic for elven culture either, but that's why I like her. Evermeet the novel doesn't even feature Arilyn. It's Danilo who writes the book, assisted by a bunch of sages, if I remember correctly.
I agree--I think Arilyn's appeal come from her personality and her rapport with Danilo Thann rather than the lore that she "brings to the table" (same goes for other characters). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Iconic characters vs. Average Joes
