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stormcrow1618
Acolyte
12 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 00:36:51
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Okay, admittedly I don't have my grubby little paws on the module yet, but I'm working on a few ideas. Obviously I'll want to purchase T1-4 before getting into too much planning, but I want to work out some of the kinks before I pick it up.
I'm going to try to concurrently run some of the plot arc from Mysteries of the Moonsea with a modified version of ToEE, with the theme being the resurrection of Moander. There is mention on the Mysteries of the Moonsea book of a high-level arc for Moander's return, but there's unfortunately very little detail. I've heard that there's more specific information for how Moander might return in Power of Faerun, but I don't have that book either. I'd like to know in general terms what it says, if anyone can help me out with that.
From ToEE, Zuggtmoy will be replaced by Moander, and Tharizdun will be replaced by Ghaunadaur (who has consumed and absorbed Juiblex) These roles seem perfectly matched, as Ghaunadar seems to have MANY parallels with the "Elder Elemental Eye," and he bears great emnity for Lolth, who is of course busy impersonating the Rotten God. Moander's return would probably not bode well for the Spider Queen, which would be to Ghaunadaur's benefit.
I've had various ideas in this regard, such as Auzkovyn clan members secretly being Ghaunadaur cultists (I'll be using a modified version of the Thrall of Juiblex from the BoVD for these, if I go with this) whose goal it is to raise Moander so that Ghaunadaur can consume him as well. I also considered having Szass Tam sponsoring the whole ordeal from Thay and involving the Red Wizards somehow, but I haven't quite found a way to link this, and so I've largely scrapped that idea.
Here are the problems I'm having so far with incorporating ToEE (which might be thoroughly alleviated when I get the module):
Iuz the Evil; The FAQ on the site suggests replacing Iuz with Iyachtu Xvim, but as the Godson is dead, I don't see how this would be appropriate. Also, I'm not entirely sure what the role of Iuz in the module is, so I'm not sure what a good alternative might be.
Location; I have three locations in mind.
The first was the suggestion in the FAQ, placing the Temple in the Flooded Forest and replacing Hommlet with the town of Ylraphon in the Vast. This would work well, since my main PC is from Raven's Bluff. She would be led on a long and winding road through the plot arc and end up full-circle, very near where she started.
The second is the lost Temple of Moander beneath Yulash, with Hommlet being replaced with Yulash itself, which I'm not sure how well it could be incorporated with the ToEE module. However, it would fit perfectly with the plot arc of Mysteries of the Moonsea.
The third idea is using the Darkwatch and replacing Hommlet with Highmoon in Deepingdale. This doesn't seem to fit well with what I've seen of the module, but it does make sense as a likely place for Moander's awakening, since part of his essence is still alive down there.
If anyone can offer some suggestions (aside from picking up the ToEE module, which I fully intend to do with great haste) it would be greatly appreciated.
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stormcrow1618
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:13:05
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| Although not directly related to the questions I have, I should also point out that one idea I had about the process of resurrecting Moander involves somehow obtaining the blood (or heart?) of Finder Wyvernspur. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:35:27
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He Whose Name Must Not Be Uttered (T--) doesn't figure in T1-4; Monte Cook conflated it with the Elder Elemental God in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, but in the original conception they're distinct. The Elder Elemental God isn't mentioned in T1-4 either, though Lareth in T1 bears his mark and Gary has said that the EEG thread would have been developed if he'd written the lower levels of the Temple rather than Frank Mentzer. Ghaunadaur is literally the Realms' version of the Elder Elemental God, not just similar to it.
Iuz is plotting with Zuggtmoy to expand their power with their resurgent artificial cult of Elemental Evil, which years earlier raised an army which was defeated by the forces of weal at a major battle. They're behind the scenes; Zuggtmoy can be encountered directly, while (as written) Iuz faces off near the end of the module with St. Cuthbert. He's a demigod who rules his own realm in Oerik. Why not just not have Xvim alive in your campaign? Failing that, any evil power (demigod, demon lord) of comparable power to your Zuggtmoy-replacement. |
Edited by - Faraer on 23 Aug 2006 01:41:08 |
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stormcrow1618
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
He Whose Name Must Not Be Uttered (T--) doesn't figure in T1-4; Monte Cook conflated it with the Elder Elemental God in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, but in the original conception they're distinct. The Elder Elemental God isn't mentioned in T1-4 either, though Lareth in T1 bears his mark and Gary has said that the EEG thread would have been developed if he'd written the lower levels of the Temple rather than Frank Mentzer. Ghaunadaur is literally the Realms' version of the Elder Elemental God, not just similar to it.
Iuz is plotting with Zuggtmoy to expand their power with their resurgent artificial cult of Elemental Evil, which years earlier raised an army which was defeated by the forces of weal at a major battle. They're behind the scenes; Zuggtmoy can be encountered directly, while (as written) Iuz faces off near the end of the module with St. Cuthbert. He's a demigod who rules his own realm in Oerik. Why not just not have Xvim alive in your campaign? Failing that, any evil power (demigod, demon lord) of comparable power to your Zuggtmoy-replacement.
Well, I'm not a fan of deviating from canon unless I develop it over the course of the campaign, so simply stating "Xvim is alive, and that's that" doesn't sit well with me.
I'm too much of a perfectionist as it is to simultaneously make ToEE fit seamlessly into Faerun and alleviate the logical complications with Xvim and Bane both being alive. It'd be like a Rubik's Cube, you know: You have all the sides but one aligned, and you go to shift the remaining side only to find that now all the other sides are out of place. An undertaking to rewrite history like that is one I'm not prepared or really willing to begin, at least not simply for the purposes of freeing up a character to fit a role for which others might be better qualified.
So, Xvim is out. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that Tharzidun doesn't enter into the ToEE (But rather RttToEE), so perhaps I'd be better served to simply use Ghaunadaur as Moander's "ally" in this campaign. I don't have the module yet, so maybe I'm confusing myself even more here.
In any event, for the background of this campaign, I'll be going for a distinct feel of H.P. Lovecraft horror. Lots of shadow and tentacles and decay. *grin* |
Edited by - stormcrow1618 on 23 Aug 2006 02:25:15 |
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EvilKnight
Learned Scribe
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 02:18:20
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Xvim does not have to be alive. Cultists can be misguided...
Some other power may want to mislead the cultists into unleashing some 'elemental evil'...
EvilKnight |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 12:10:39
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| There aren't exact Realms equivalents, and you won't know which aspects of the original elements you want to follow most closely until you read the module, so I recommend you do that at this point. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 14:37:51
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I'd have to look at my copy of ToEE at home to see if Iuz actually plays a role, I know he played a part in the computer game, happily bashing at St Cuthbert's avatar.
To replace Hommlet with Yulash doesn't seem pretty wise since Hommlet is a remote village in a semi-peaceful area.
If I understand some info in Hordes of the Abyss correctly Lolth and Zuggtmoy have been temporary allies, so there might be a possibility of introducing her to the realms, especially considering that Moander was defeated by Finder.
Just a few thoughts |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 02:57:27
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| I have the adventure and am going to run it soon. My question to everyone is. Where is Ghaunadaur/Juiblex detailed? As in what sourcebook. I can't seem to find the god in the Trilogy of deity books from 2nd edition. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 03:07:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
I have the adventure and am going to run it soon. My question to everyone is. Where is Ghaunadaur/Juiblex detailed? As in what sourcebook. I can't seem to find the god in the Trilogy of deity books from 2nd edition.
Ghaunadaur/Juiblex is considered in the drow panthenon...in the 3rd gods book.. |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 03:23:05
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Ah, I see. Well... I've had the adventure for so long now that I might as well put some use to it. Thanks for the information.
I am going to use Xvim as Iuz because well, Xvim was always way cooler than Bane to me. The only problem I have having currently is with dates. I will be starting this campaign in 1372, so my question is his. Did Xvim exist in 1347 (which would be the original temples creation, if we go by the history in the model) with enough power to influence the creation of the Temple? |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Edited by - Mazrim_Taim on 27 Aug 2006 03:26:36 |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 03:40:41
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I did the ToEE in the Realms long ago (early in 2E), I placed it in the Vast, along the southern coast...
what I don't really understand why does the ToEE translation have to be exact and fitting in the Realms...just because it is Grayhawk canon it doesn't mean the Realms version has to be an exact fit to the Grayhawk original...
I used Ghanaudor of course (from the old 2E Drow of the Underdark book)as the Elemental Eye and for Zuggtmuty I used Juiblex actually, to me it seemed sense that Ghaunador would imprison the "puny" Abyssal Lord...
I ignored the whole Lolth link in the ToEE, St. Cuthbert was replaced by Torm and for Iuz I used the Zulkir of Conjuration (Red Wizard of Thay)...the Iuz/Zuggtmuy partnership was Jublex contacting and working with the Zulkir to get free...all actually being puppets of Ghaunador's plans.. |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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stormcrow1618
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2006 : 15:06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
I did the ToEE in the Realms long ago (early in 2E), I placed it in the Vast, along the southern coast...
what I don't really understand why does the ToEE translation have to be exact and fitting in the Realms...just because it is Grayhawk canon it doesn't mean the Realms version has to be an exact fit to the Grayhawk original...
I used Ghanaudor of course (from the old 2E Drow of the Underdark book)as the Elemental Eye and for Zuggtmuty I used Juiblex actually, to me it seemed sense that Ghaunador would imprison the "puny" Abyssal Lord...
I ignored the whole Lolth link in the ToEE, St. Cuthbert was replaced by Torm and for Iuz I used the Zulkir of Conjuration (Red Wizard of Thay)...the Iuz/Zuggtmuy partnership was Jublex contacting and working with the Zulkir to get free...all actually being puppets of Ghaunador's plans..
Using one of the Zulkirs in place of Iuz seems like a good idea, and would fit my original idea of using Szass Tam somewhere in the mix. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2006 : 17:07:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Mazrim_Taim
Ah, I see. Well... I've had the adventure for so long now that I might as well put some use to it. Thanks for the information.
I am going to use Xvim as Iuz because well, Xvim was always way cooler than Bane to me. The only problem I have having currently is with dates. I will be starting this campaign in 1372, so my question is his. Did Xvim exist in 1347 (which would be the original temples creation, if we go by the history in the model) with enough power to influence the creation of the Temple?
He's been around since at least 710 DR, according to the Westgate timeline in the Cloak & Dagger web enhancement. |
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ToEE (T1-4) in the Realms
