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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 09:26:08
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I was planning on using a Fey'ri cleric of Vhaerun as one of the major lackeys of the B.B.E.G. in my Menzoberranzan campaign. Do you think it is feasible for a fey'ri to be in the Underdark serving a drow god? He is going to be one of the fey'ri decended from theone's that escaped the Seven Citadels war. By the way the events of the Last Mythal are not in my campaign. So Sarya and crew are still gathering their strength in the High Forest.
Thanks in advance
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Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 09:55:38
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Do you have an explanation for the Fey'ri being in the Underdark and worshipping Vhaeraun?
I could see the former, but never the latter. Never. The Fey'ri still consider themselves Sun Elves, and they rabidly hate the Drow. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 10:18:00
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| Yeah I had considered that them being sun elves hate the drow incliding their deties.But I do have a backstory for him being in the Underdark. Although some of them worship Ghaundhar (sp?) who is part of the Anti-Seldarine. But with him being an Elder Evil maybe they don't consider him a drow deity. Maybe I'll just make him a half-fiend drow instead with specific powers hmmm a half drow/ half-kelvezu (Demon from MM2) I think you have sent me on a different tangent Dan. Well anyways thanks for the input. |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 12:42:09
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| Uhm, welcome. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 16:08:48
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Maybe the Fey'ri is an opportunist? He escaped the Nameless Dungeon and decided to cling onto a drow patrol in his altered form (drow) and gained the respect of the Vhaerun worshipping drow. Liking the Vhaerun religion he went full into becoming a cleric. If this Fey'ri is alone and kinda unusual for a Fey'ri (every race has its exceptions) then anything is possible. Plus, it is your game. If Kymessin (dude from Elaine's books) worked with Lloth and Ghaunadar then I fail to see why a Fey'ri wouldn't take advantage of a great opportunity to gain power under the worship of Vhaerun. I love the idea.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 16:14:05
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| Working indirectly with a deity is NOT the same as being a Cleric of one, though. That requires true, actual belief. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 16:27:20
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Agrees with GD.
Also,
quote:
Originally posted by Bladedancer
Do you think it is feasible for a fey'ri to be in the Underdark serving a drow god?
Consider that Vhaeraun's clergy allows only for drow -- almost all of which are males. Unless you intend to ignore this for your own game, you're going to need a reason why this particular fey'ri has been accepted into a Vhaeraunite clergy.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 17:20:56
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Sage, I respect your words very highly and must bow to your wisdom.  -bows deeply- Gothic Dan, you've won this time! -shakes fist in the air comically-  I have a Fey'ri in my current campaign that is having a hard time figuring out his characters identity and why he is adventuring with good-aligned adventurers. I shall submit this information for his use. Thanks guys!  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 18:57:24
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| I win all the times. ;) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 19:01:38
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And you are humble at it too.  Gothic Dan, are you a priest of Oghma??? |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 19:09:49
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| I am Oghma!! |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 21:16:48
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While I hate to discredit your claim, I must point out that by your avatar, "ye be an elf."  At least that is what a dwarf would say. But you have my utmost respect in your knowledge in lore; however you are far from the claim of Oghma and that is not only based on your elfin appearance. I would also base my statement on your name. If you were Oghma you would be named as such.  I would also like to reference that despite your vast knowledge of lore you lack the "canon" title of Oghma due to the fact that many scribes here would say Oghma is not Gothic or Dan. You could claim the unofficial title but you and I both know that claiming titles and arcane symbols of others leads to trouble in the Realms. I recently read some lore on this in fact. However you never claimed a title and I just wanted to show off that I read something cool recently.  Now we could manipulate GothicDan into Dan Gothic but that would be improper at best. Even for an unofficial "Oghma." Mind that I take things very literal, which distresses my wife to no end, so I might have taken you seriously on your statement had I been newer to the Realms. Then I would write in my book of Lore thast GothicDan is Oghma. Luckily I knew better. But I will warn you with this. Oghma is a decent sort of God and I have a good sense of humor (I know this is a biased opinion but I like myself). You might get away today but Oghma will follow your paper trail and one day catch up to you and smacketh you with a great and mighty roll of parchment bearing lore that names him (Oghma) as the true Oghma. And thus this is the end of my scribing of why GothicDan could be Oghma but really can't. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 21:44:50
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Hey,
How about we get back on topic? |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 22:08:45
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Sorry Kuje.  I got carried away. Won't happen again.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 15:20:16
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| It's ok Kuje I actually like the banter makes for fun reading. Especially when Dan goes on one of his rants. I remember a few on the (now mostly craptastic) Wizards's boards that left me chuckling for hours after turning off my pc. |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
Edited by - Bladedancer on 08 Aug 2006 15:28:42 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 17:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladedancer
It's ok Kuje I actually like the banter makes for fun reading. Especially when Dan goes on one of his rants. I remember a few on the (now mostly craptastic) Wizards's boards that left me chuckling for hours after turning off my pc.
Aye,
But we tend to be better moderated then WOTC and we, the mods, don't enjoy the off topic posts. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 17:19:32
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| Point taken :) |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 14:56:27
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I would say the fey'ri would bluff be worshipper of Faerun if he takes drow disguise but would never likely in hearth turn worship Vhaeraun. A mere SLIGTH chance for fey'ri to worship a drow god would be likely Eilistrae but it is said the good fey'ri (and especially lawfull ones) are non-existant.
Also I imagine fey'ri clerics are rare if they do not worship demonic patron, like Graz'zt. |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 16:01:45
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My thoughts on Fey'ri...
Fey'ri are unlikely to worship Drow Gods as is. Ghaunadaur is more a slime god that tried to gain Drow worshippers and joined Lolth's crew. Therefore more acceptable than a plain Drow God.
Possiblities for a Fey'ri worshipper of Vhaerun:
1) Denial. It could be possible that the Fey'ri might believe that Vhaerun is really a Sun Elf that has been painted as a Drow by the drow. This is likely a Herecy, but stranger Herecies have happened.
2) While not Fey'ri, it is possible to create Drow Equalivent. Just remove the Sun elf stats, remove the +3 traits and add the Drow ones. Or have the demon traits over power the Drow natural traits (possible using Moon Elves as the base as 2ed hinted that Drow natural un-Lolthed state is close to that of Moon Elves).
Remember that Sun Elves are not the only ones to have dealings with Demons like Succubi and Incubi.
Also it might be possible that Fey'ri, being rejected by the gods of their pantheon, might worship the gods of the tiefling they share in common with. With Atonement, it might be possible to have change alignment. (This brings up the question if Atonement might affect Native Outsiders. If not, perhaps there should be a more powerful version of it. 7th level, perhaps? Between Atonement and Sacitfy the Wicked.)
Perhaps even stating that the gods mentioned by the tiefling might be part elven. (Which might work for Regular elves and Human gods.)
Also the Fey'ri might develop Herecies of the Elven Pantheon. Herecies that might be promoted by gods other than the ones that they think they are reaching. (Perhaps Malar filling in for Shevarash?)
Just some of my random thoughts. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 17:25:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
1) Denial. It could be possible that the Fey'ri might believe that Vhaerun is really a Sun Elf that has been painted as a Drow by the drow. This is likely a Herecy, but stranger Herecies have happened.
The Golden Vhaeraun Heresy... I like it! |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 17:53:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
1) Denial. It could be possible that the Fey'ri might believe that Vhaerun is really a Sun Elf that has been painted as a Drow by the drow. This is likely a Herecy, but stranger Herecies have happened.
The Golden Vhaeraun Heresy... I like it!
Hey, if they can have a Gospel of Judas in the real world, why not? |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 09 Aug 2006 17:54:47 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 22:29:21
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*Snickers.*
I guess I want things to flow, for the most part, 'naturally' with the lore. That doesn't mean that I think everything for a character's concept has to be stereotypical, but if I hit a junction that makes me just slam on the breaks and think "How does this happen?!" I tend to think that the idea is a little too contrived. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 22:53:08
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Another possiblity...
Vhaerun masquerades as a diety that might be acceptable to a Fey'ri. There is plenty of lore of Gods taking forms that might gain more worshippers. Even Ed has commented on it. Except for Drow domain, any of the other four domains of Vhaerun (Chaos, Evil, Travel and Trickery) might makes sense for a god of Fey'ri.
You can develop an alter-ego for Vhaerun for your Cleric (Vhaerun could look like a Fey'ri in appearance and try to mimic the powers of a Fey'ri, perhaps taking the name of a lost Dlardrageth member of high rank) and develop a reason why this Fey'ri god might be working with the Drow.
(Perhaps deciding to turn the Drow into a 'Slave' or 'Servant' race that would help gain revenge against the Seldarine for forsaking them and the Moon Elves for betraying them).
Just another option for use. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2006 : 01:04:35
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| Hmm, the feat in Power in Faerun makes possible to gain divine spellcasting even under even odd circumstances and heresies so it IS possible that sun elf may worship Vhaeraun under that rule that invidual is nuts and thinks Vhaeraun as drow disguised sun elf or Vhaeraun creates half-heretical alter ego gain worshippers altough the number of fey'ri after Last Mythal series makes it questionably reasonable tactic to bother whit. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2006 : 02:06:01
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Now, I could see that - a Sun Elf worshipping Vhaeraun under an alt., so to speak.
The question is - how to make a respectable, believable heresy? |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 09:11:18
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Well ... if you want to stick to official stuff, how about an archivist instead of a cleric? You could pose as a drow and a cleric while not actually being one of Vhaeraun (essentially, much like the Masked Traitors do with their "worship of Lolth"). S/He learns her/his spells out of a spell-/prayerbook and cast them normally.
Archivists can be found in "Heroes of Horror" or the excerpt of this book on the Wizards' website. Quite good a class too. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 09:12:25
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| Well, in FR, a deity would still be granting his spells... |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 21:47:48
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Well, in FR, a deity would still be granting his spells...
Yes ... actually, who knows? (the class is not defined in FR lands, apart from being (quasi-) divine casters (spell-wise only, most likely) ... but much like the Masked Traitors ... or even better than them, the other clerics would not immediately note which god it actually is who grants the spells. Obviously, if there are "Masked Traitors" (actually in both directions) for them two deities, why not for others? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 01:12:08
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Ed says. :)
He said that, no matter what feat or whatever one is using, to use divine magic in FR, one must be granted the magic by a divine being. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 13:20:30
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Well, yes. That was not exactly my point. You do need a patron, no problem. But it is IMHO easier to disguise your "patronage" if you cast divine spells out of a "forged" prayerbook "in the name of (say) Vhaeraun" while the spells actually come from (say) Shevarash.
PS: Where / when did he say that and in what sort of context? Archivists? (The name is IMHO somewhat misleading.) |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 15:31:20
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>>Well, yes. That was not exactly my point. You do need a patron, no problem. But it is IMHO >>easier to disguise your "patronage" if you cast divine spells out of a "forged" >.prayerbook "in the name of (say) Vhaeraun" while the spells actually come from (say) >>Shevarash.
>>PS: Where / when did he say that and in what sort of context? Archivists? (The name is IMHO >>somewhat misleading.)
Archivists are divine casters and therefore SHOULD have a patron. The class as written leaves this ambiguous, almost as if archivists have learned how to leech divine energy to power their spells. Of course, they do this with druids too, and druids are forced to take a patron in the realms (no worshipping "nature itself"). I am glad to see others looking at that class, because it would seem to fit some areas of Faerun very well (Thay, Calimshan, Halruaa, Silverymoon, Candlekeep, etc...) and some religions quite well (Azuth, Mystra, Savras, Thoth, Oghma, Deneir, etc...)
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Fey'ri cleric of Vhaerun
