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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 01:28:43
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Wizards have posted the Contents page for Tome of Battle
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060731a
About the only thing that pliques my interest is the Crusader (Class?)
I wonder if it might be some sort of All alignments "Paladin"
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 01 Aug 2006 01:31:27
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 01:50:46
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The weapons of legacy sound intriguing...
I used to love the old crusader class from the 2E trilogy of deity books; I hope this crusader is a 3E version of that. Swordsage sounds interesting, but warblade doesn't... I'll have to see what each of these classes actually is before I make a decision.
Even if the classes are all good, this one will be, at best, a book I get on the cheap from eBay. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 02:00:52
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Not high on the list, though I am interested to see what its about. Tome of Magic was awesome, but I don't know if you can make a book about combat quite as compelling.
I doubt that crusader is the same class, but I could be wrong. I think the focus on all of these is pretty much combat, not any kind of spellcasting. In fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of these ideas may be similar to the kind of stuff that was in Iron Heroes.
For some reason, Swordsage almost makes me think of a full progression "kensai" class. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 02:17:01
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For some reason, Swordsage almost makes me think of a full progression "kensai" class.
That would be great! I loved the original kensai from the 1E Oriental Adventures! (And the best wu jen was in an issue of Dragon, during the days of 2E) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 02:28:33
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Actually, its a bit off subject, but I can see a lot of old-school statted Wu Jen just being plain old sorcerers now. It was always a bit strange to think of wu jen as being these weird, superstitious nature hermit wizards, but then see a whole cabinet of them in Shou Lung working in an orderly fashion, because Oriental Adventures didn't have any other arcane classes.
Yeah, I loved the old kensai as well. I can see it as a prestige class, but it did seem like a mindset as well, something appropriate for a fully progression class. Like you didn't suddenly realize that you wanted to be one with your sword after you have used it for a few years, but that from the time you picked up the sword you were taught that if the sword isn't a part of you, you should never pick it up again. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 02:33:16
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Hmmm... "Supernal Clarity". Could be something relating to psionics -- I'd be happy to see something psionic-based with regard to this new material.
Looking over the rest however, I'm with Wooly. I'll only pick this one up if I've got a few gold pieces to spare that aren't needed on more important RPG materials.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 01 Aug 2006 02:33:54 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 03:11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Hmmm... "Supernal Clarity". Could be something relating to psionics -- I'd be happy to see something psionic-based with regard to this new material.
Looking over the rest however, I'm with Wooly. I'll only pick this one up if I've got a few gold pieces to spare that aren't needed on more important RPG materials.
*snickers* Besides, when the little one gets a few years older, she'll be taking all those spare gold pieces.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 03:18:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Hmmm... "Supernal Clarity". Could be something relating to psionics -- I'd be happy to see something psionic-based with regard to this new material.
Theres a Psychic renewal feat as well |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2006 : 05:19:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*snickers* Besides, when the little one gets a few years older, she'll be taking all those spare gold pieces.
Hehe... That's already started. 
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Theres a Psychic renewal feat as well
Oh yeah... I hadn't realised that earlier. Neat.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 21:07:24
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It's a book full of absolutely nothing but crunch?
Definitely not on my buy list. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 21:34:16
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| Well, it is a Core supplement. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 01:01:12
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| I got the chance to page through this in the store. I'm sure some people will find some fun stuff for their campaigns, but I got the "Magic of Incarnum" feeling when I looked at this, which I will clarify as not so much a quality judgement, but just a "too different, too much to assimilate" feeling that it wouldn't fit with where I want to go with campaigns I am running or characters I am playing. |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 02:12:19
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After looking through it at the store I found that I liked the book, more so than other generic "alternative system" books that WotC has published in recent years, i.e. Magic of Incarnum. I'm even considering a purchase. The system seemed vaguely Vancian, which wasn't too difficult to grasp since that's how regular spellcasting works. The system wasn't too out there, like MoI was an entirely new magical system that had little synergy with regular D&D magic. Tome of Battle aimed to give melee combat a taste of the extraordinary a hint of the supernatural, at a glance it appeared to do that well. Even regular core warriors could dabble in the maneuvers.
However, I may be biased due to my love to wuxia, which the system reminded me of and seemed inspired by. Some of this seemed it would be right at home in a high magic OA campaign. An updated and Realms appropriate Kara-Tur? One can hope. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 10:19:24
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Tome of Battle isn't exciting me at all. It's on the 'I might get it if I'm being a completist but don't need to eat this week and my wife is OK with that decision' list.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Tome of Magic was awesome
ABSOLUTELY!
A very good source book with wonderful ideas. To be honest, as regards swordplay so long as your opponent is dead at the end then it doesn't matter how you killed them. Wheras magic can be used for so much more than removing armed opponents. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 11:42:01
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Bought the book, and have to say, I'm not really that impressed. Haven't really studied it that hard, but it's like they made fighters into mage types. And yes, they do have a sidebar explaining they wanted to add mystical flavor to fighters ala Martial Arts flicks and Anime so that's what they're going for apparently.
I'll give it a more thoughtful look over once I'm done devouring Dragons of Faerűn, but nothing caught my eye and screamed at me on the first skimming. |
"I've got a plan..."- Dan
"Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 01:52:23
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I think that despite having a limited outcome, swordplay can and should be interesting and dynamic. Though the more I hear about this book, the less it seems to "work." It shifts the focus to these new classes, not making the Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin types more interesting to play.
The material in this book does not seem like it would be a good fit for the Realms. It's the type of thing that needs a setting with this system built in. Turning out to be more like Magic of Incarnum than Tome of Magic. Blah. |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 04:34:57
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| well, if it is as KnightErrant Jr speculated, and it is similar to the Iron Heroes book, then it should be pretty good. I took part in a fairly short Iron Heroes campaign, and that system is pretty cool to work with. No one in our party played a spellcaster and yet every fighter-type was totally different and fun to play. I haven't seen the book yet, so I'll reserve judgment, obviously. |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 04:56:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Conlon
well, if it is as KnightErrant Jr speculated, and it is similar to the Iron Heroes book, then it should be pretty good. I took part in a fairly short Iron Heroes campaign, and that system is pretty cool to work with. No one in our party played a spellcaster and yet every fighter-type was totally different and fun to play. I haven't seen the book yet, so I'll reserve judgment, obviously.
One of my players has Iron Heroes and he is the one that got this also.
Just heard back from him after he spent this evening reading it.
Compared to Iron Heroes, it is MEH.
Though on the other hand Iron Heroes would be harder to work into a normal campaign also. |
News of the Weird
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 05:05:22
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Why the heck do people want to play Fighters/Barbarians/Rangers who AREN'T primarily Fighters? *Glares at the intent of this book.* Anime.. Jebus.
Keep anime out of my D&D, please. If you want it, put it in GURPs or Exalted or something. Just not in D&D. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 05:12:25
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Conlon
well, if it is as KnightErrant Jr speculated, and it is similar to the Iron Heroes book, then it should be pretty good. I took part in a fairly short Iron Heroes campaign, and that system is pretty cool to work with. No one in our party played a spellcaster and yet every fighter-type was totally different and fun to play. I haven't seen the book yet, so I'll reserve judgment, obviously.
One of my players has Iron Heroes and he is the one that got this also.
Just heard back from him after he spent this evening reading it.
Compared to Iron Heroes, it is MEH.
Though on the other hand Iron Heroes would be harder to work into a normal campaign also.
Thanks for that info. After posting, I checked out the excerpt on the WotC board and from the small bit I saw there, I would agree that it doesn't seem to be in quite the same vein as Iron Heroes.
I also agree that the Iron Heroes system would not be a "drop-in" fit for the Realms or another "normal" setting. It does rock though.. |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 05:54:40
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Why the heck do people want to play Fighters/Barbarians/Rangers who AREN'T primarily Fighters? *Glares at the intent of this book.* Anime.. Jebus.
I think it's partly because melee in D&D mechanics is primarily depicted as two guys with dangerous pieces of metal or wood robotically trading blows until one or the other drops.
Tome of Battle throws some variety in there, but it might be going too far with an entirely new system.
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Keep anime out of my D&D, please. If you want it, put it in GURPs or Exalted or something. Just not in D&D.
Yeah, typical anime is not a good fit for D&D. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 09:22:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Archwizard
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Why the heck do people want to play Fighters/Barbarians/Rangers who AREN'T primarily Fighters? *Glares at the intent of this book.* Anime.. Jebus.
I think it's partly because melee in D&D mechanics is primarily depicted as two guys with dangerous pieces of metal or wood robotically trading blows until one or the other drops.
Tome of Battle throws some variety in there, but it might be going too far with an entirely new system.
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Keep anime out of my D&D, please. If you want it, put it in GURPs or Exalted or something. Just not in D&D.
Yeah, typical anime is not a good fit for D&D.
the way to put anime into your D&D game is to use D20 BESM to supplement it. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 23:36:59
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| BESM? |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 00:00:38
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| I believe it stands for something like "Big Eyes, Small Mouth", in reference to the typical style anime characters are drawn in. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 00:18:00
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| *Cough, cackle.* |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 01:57:03
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Keep anime out of my D&D, please. If you want it, put it in GURPs or Exalted or something. Just not in D&D.
Note that it isn't in yours, mine or anyone else's D&D.
That is, it's not in the core rulebooks, nor is it the FRCS or any existing Realms supplement, nor is it required that everyone playing D&D stop what they're doing and "Go Get This Book" so that they can keep playing.
In fact these rules are in a stand-alone, optional variety of rulebook...the kind for people who want to maybe have a BESM style D&D game can use, amongst others.
I like companies that give us a choice.
Just saying.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 02:51:13
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I don't like too much choice.
Just saying. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 10:12:19
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Well that's your choice Dan.
Not much that interests me personally in this book, but I can see how this could appeal to someone with a taste for a different sort of fantasy than I prefer.
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 10:36:59
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Yeah. I just think that, to a point, restrictions help to define the theme/mood/feel of something.
Even over on the WotC thread, Rich Baker mentioned that at one point a few of them were reconisdering design approach after reading a book, I believe titled, "The Paradox of Choice." |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Tome of Battle contents
