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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 04:00:39
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Warning the following post has spoils from the Last Mythal trilogy
A few musings and predictions
Population: Myth Drannor will start with a sizeable Elven population likely 3-5000 elves from those crusaders who survived its battles and elected to stay in the city instead of returning to Evermeet. Assuming the elves adapt the open city policy similar to the one the original Myth Drannor had there is likely to be a sizeable human presence in the city Dalesmen and possibly even some Sembian mercenaries may have elected to live in the city.
The human vs. elf ratio is likely to rise more and more in the humans favour as Myth Drannor is unlikely to receive any new Moon or Sun elf settlers as Evermeet and Evereska have suffered heavy population declines from recent wars and migrations. Wild and Wood elves are also unlikely to settle in Myth Drannor as they tend to prefer a more nomadic existence (or at least small settled communities) not the Urban existence of Myth Drannor. There is one potential source of elves Myth Drannors new Coronal could tap into, the Drow who follow Ellistraee (this would not be without precedent in –331 and -310 the Coronal allowed good aligned drow to settle in Shadowdale and eastern Cormanthor), a number of whom live in the eastern dales. Longer term there is another potential source of elves: the Star elves if these elves are eventually forced to leave their demi plane and forced to return to Faerun they may be granted refuge in the newly reclaimed Myth Drannor (although this had not happened as of 1380 DR.)
Economics: The Dales will likely become richer due to an increase demand for Foodstuffs for reclaimed Myth Drannor. Mistledale and its Temple of Chauntea are the most likely to profit from the reclaiming of the city. As Myth Drannor becomes more “civilised” the Dales are likely to suffer a population decline as their “Best and Brightest” leave the farm and relocate to Myth Drannor where they can seek training as Wizard, Masons and Artists etc.
Military: Most of the Elves of Myth Drannor are likely to be battle hardened veterans of the Elven Crusade and the majority probably are veterans of the Invasion of Evermeet. (In game terms Id say no elf living in Myth Drannor is probably lower than 3rd level and most are around 5th or higher) there would be very few non-combatants elves living in Myth Drannor at this time. If the elves allow human settlers in the Myth Drannor then there may well be former or even active human mercenaries available to defend the city.
Threats: In the east, south and west Myth Drannor is surrounded by friendly human dales that are unlikely to work against the city. To the north lies the Banite city state of Zhentil Keep, Yulash and Hillsfar who do not share Myth Drannors ideals., however I suspect Fzoul will be more interested in controlling the remaining no Zhenatarim cities of the Moonsea than invading the Dales again. Further to the south lies the Kingdom of Cormyr and Merchant state of Sembia. Cormyr is wracked with its own problems and is unlikely to interfere in the Dales in the near future. Sembia on the other hand while it assisted the Crusade against the Daemonfey has long hungered for Myth Drannors southern dale allies.
What do you think?
PS: Ed has to find a way to write up what happans when the Knights of Myth Drannor and Elminster get back to Shadowdale!
Mourngrym Amcathra to the Knights of Myth Drannor and Elminster: "Ah my friends welcome back as you may have noticed there are quite a few elves in Shadowdale, well lets just say theres been a few changes since you left..."
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 17 Jul 2006 04:10:24
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 04:26:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Mourngrym Amcathra to the Knights of Myth Drannor and Elminster: "Ah my friends welcome back as you may have noticed there are quite a few elves in Shadowdale, well lets just say theres been a few changes since you left..."
*shudder*
I'm so happy Ed's new novels will be taking place during the early days of the Knights, that's all I have to say. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 17 Jul 2006 04:28:17 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 05:16:17
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Population: I would concur, for a while. The elves would have to ensure that Myth Drannor is secure, setting up a perimeter, securing the supply channels ( portals and otherwise, and finish clearing the city proper, above below and inbetween. Then after probably 6 months to a year, craftisians, merchants, and other artisians could start to really rebuild. I would say about a year plus and families and other civilians could start to move into the area. Hopefully they will still foster an open relationship with the other goodly races, which will help out greatly in re-establishing the realms. So.. lastly my thoughts are that upwards of 10 to 15 k bodies could be ready to live or pass through regularly within a year.
Economics: I would have to say right on the money. I can really see some potential here with secure trade routes and portals. making friends as much as possible with the surrounding communities would contribute mostly to a suss or failure here.
Military: The veterans of the 2 engagments plus any from evereska's resent conflict, would most likely be right around where you are indicating. replenishing troops from evermeet, evereska, and and locals would probably be 0-2 in level. I would imagine a lot of volunteers would show up "after" a successful campaign such as this. Hopefully the veterens of this crusade would be given some worthy titles for thier efforts.
threats: their would presumably still be some drow around and I think some further issues with Sembia. Additionally, I am not too sure how much some factions within the dales population would like the elves showing back up and giving directions on how things are going to be again, with regards to usage of the forests.
anyways my 2 coppers worth |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 05:55:51
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Cormyr was friendly to Myth Drannor before the fall, so I don't see any reason it wouldn't be now. Not to mention the fact that they never invaded the Dales before, when they were strong and there weren't several thousand battle-hardened elves in Myth Drannor. I don't see them doing so now.
As for the combatants, considering the extent of the battles and the strength of the foes, I'd say the lowest level would be closer to 5 or 6, not 3. Especially since the elves started out as competant warriors and adventurers who had likely fought in Evermeet and possibly Evereska and other battles on the continent. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 05:58:43
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Population: Not very likely to see a booming rise in the next six months to a few years. Though Myth Drannor had been reclaimed, the city itself is a danger unto itself. The resident cult necromancers, phaerimms(powerful opponents who no doubt had heard of their relatives plight in Evereksa and arming themselves) and the other resident monsters(possibly some veterans from the Weepin Wars) may pose a serious obstacle to the cleaning up campaign. More lives had to be wasted to mop the stubborn residents of the ruined city.
Scererar is right, rebuilding and repairing the city requires a lot of skilled manpower and time, so it might take another three to five years given the extensive damage the city had recieved from the recent battle and the ravages of Time.
But as to whether Myth Drannor will adopt the cosmopolitan policy its predecessors had is an issue that hangs on the thin edge of the blade. I suspect that the elves would not likely adopt the cosmopolitan policy as they face continuous threats from Hillsfar, Zhentil Keep, Sembia and the drow, which these states whose rulers may not be pleased to have a rising elven power undermine their interests for too long. So, the elves may be wary of inviting extra unnecessary threats if they open up myth drannor to the other races, so I believe the city population may remain majority elven and low for quite some years to come. Until the city political, economical, military and social issues had been settled well enough, the city will likely remain closed to other races. Besides, the elven extremist group E.V may exploit this as opportunity to spread their influence in a recovering city. Besides, Evereska may compete with Myth Drannor for settlers.
Economics:The city economy is likely to remain poor for the next decade or so as it had to spend huge sums on waging wars against the remaining ugly residents of the city, maintaining and upgrading the military, fighting threats from beyond the city and inside the city and restoring the city to its pre-war conditions, all these are massive funds-consuming projects that may very well leave the city economy weak for many years to come. Myth drannor government cannot tax its citizens too heavily or it may risk a drop in settlers, but otherwise, I see no way the city can prosper without tackling the standing threats and long-term issues first.
Military: Though it is possible that a small-moderate portion of the elven crusaders may leave the city in favor of their homes and families in Evermeet than stay and waste time in a ruined city. There is no dispute from me about the veterancy and fighting abilities of the troops, yet, if counting the possibility of some troops leaving for Evermeet or Evereska, I think the strength would be reduced. Besides, the military had to waste lives in cleaning up the city undesired residents and keeping foreign threats out will likely take a toll on the remaining numbers of available fighting troops. So, starting strength of the city would be not so appealing but if the city can cough up sufficient funds to hire elven mercernaries (human mercenaries are unlikely for security reasons), I think the military size would be small until volunteers and conscripts can be trained to a at least level 3 status(given the threats around the city, level 3 would be better than level 1 status), it will take some time to achieve that.
Threats: Myth Drannor opponents are unlikely to decrease over the years but the determination and power of the city's enemies are very likely to increase over the years. The immediate threat would be from the drow whose machinations and subtlety are a reason for worry, besides there may be a strong possibility that Sembia, Hillsfar and Zhentil Keep may unite resources and manpower(if they can do it again) to attempt another strike on the city as the city's elven presence would mean another hundred years of delay to the ambitions and plans harbored by the human rulers of these cities, so it is unlikely these states would sit idly by and watch their dreams/ambitions fade to dust. Besides, the Shadovar and the cult of the dragon may be planning for a strike against the city. The Shadovar may not like being sandwiched by powerful elven powers in the east and west who may one day pose a threat to their expansion. The dragon cultists may seek revenge for their expulsion from the city. Red Wizard involvement may be possible too. Lastly, the E.V the elven extremist group may be the greatest threat the elves may face, given the city preoccupation with external threats, they may not see the internal threat rising before it is too late. The E.V may very likely try to poison the mind of the current city coronal or maybe dispose of the coronal and substitue one that is sympathetic to the cause of the E.V. Given the E.V ways and tactics as well as the current opportunities for them, they may gain a firm foothold in the city.
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 06:40:57
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The Vhaerunian Drow have there own problems it was briefly mentioned in the 2nd Book that a Demon was hunting the Vhaerunian drow and apparently this is Halistria from the WOSQ novels Lisa S will be covering whats shes doing in her next trilogy of novels.
I dont think the E.V will have much of a grip in the new Myth Drannor remember most of the Crusaders have fought at least twice along side humans ie the Army of the Silver Marches and the Army of the Dales/Sembia.
The EV are most likely to gain converts among the more isolationist Elven comunities and those that have recently seen human on elf violence. |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 10:22:43
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As to the number of Elves. I suspect pockets of former Myth Drannor inhabitants might find Myth Drannor habitable and return. Example of these groups would be the Elven community introduced in the Novel Bladesinger. I don't remember where this community of elves live, but their history is very much tied to Cormanthor.
Monch |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 20:23:34
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Aye, remember you guys that Book 3 last chapter is set 5 years ahead of the winning battle in Myth Drannor.
By the feel of it, Myth Drannor is more bustling at this point. |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2006 : 02:06:00
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| I find it hard to believe a city that has to be rebuilt and repopulated would be THAT bustling in just five years. Remember also that the Final Gate epilogue didn't mention how large or how populated the city was--the city could very well be on the small side. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2006 : 04:15:12
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It could also be the way Phlan was presented -- part of the city was occupied and bustling, part of it was unoccupied and in ruins. That's what I'd expect, anyway. Unless they've got a buttload of mages handy, rebuilding the city is going to take an elven lifetime, or longer. The Army of Darkness caused much damage, and in some cases, the defenders did, too (like the mages who destroyed their towers). And that's not counting 700+ years of adventurers, fiends, and nastybads tromping thru the rubble, and the damage they did...
We do know that Sarya and her boys did some cleansing of the city. But there's got to be plenty that they left behind, either because it wasn't worth the effort, they didn't have the time, or, like with Druuth Daern, because they didn't have the manpower (someone who irritates alhoon and baatezu, and keeps coming back after being destroyed, is surely going to ignore anything Sarya could do).
So cleaning out the city adds to the rebuilding time... |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 22:57:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It could also be the way Phlan was presented -- part of the city was occupied and bustling, part of it was unoccupied and in ruins. That's what I'd expect, anyway. Unless they've got a buttload of mages handy, rebuilding the city is going to take an elven lifetime, or longer. The Army of Darkness caused much damage, and in some cases, the defenders did, too (like the mages who destroyed their towers). And that's not counting 700+ years of adventurers, fiends, and nastybads tromping thru the rubble, and the damage they did...
So cleaning out the city adds to the rebuilding time...
I figure it that way myself. It was pointed out in the book that there were still vast numbers of very nasty monsters -- everything from beholders to nagas to various undead -- there, even after all the fighting. I figure that adventurers will be routine sights in Myth Drannor for at least a few years, probably hired by Coronal Ilsevele to help clean out the city's less settled parts.
And the beasts that left -- I wonder what will be happening in the rest of Cormanthor (the forest), now that they've had a sudden influx of angry and homeless monsters running around and eager for revenge. Not to mention the Vhaeraunian drow still out there, the EV, the CoD, and all the other nasty critters in the woods, as well as any surviving Fey'ri, who doubtless have plans for Myth Drannor. They didn't ALL die in the battle, after all.
And if worst comes to worst, for dungeoneering in the Dales, there's always the ruins of Tethyamar. Who knows what is lairing in the deeps, ready for any group of foolhardy -- I mean, brave adventurers to go in after it? (Be nice to give the Stout Folk some time onscreen, too!)
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 23:28:11
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Well using the epilogue as a guide, we know that MD2 (Myth Drannor 2) will be a city for all races.
Proof: Ilsevele has the Crownblade. The Crownblade has developed under the guidance of the last Coronal worked with his dream of racal intergration. The Srinshee seems to be working for this as well as she hold the blade in trust for one who works for that dream.
Pg 338 of Final Gate: "Myth Drannor was whole and living city again..."
So it seems that the city has been fully reclaimed by the elves and their allies.
Sorry have to cut this short for now. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 14:22:43
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| So how many of you will work the reclamationof Myth Drannor into your campaigns? I know in my gaming groups this is one thing that we will not adopt in any time in the immediate future. |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 16:53:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladedancer
So how many of you will work the reclamationof Myth Drannor into your campaigns? I know in my gaming groups this is one thing that we will not adopt in any time in the immediate future.
Not me. I have to much in game history with the elves and with Myth Drannor to change if I wanted to include these events. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 16:59:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Bladedancer
So how many of you will work the reclamationof Myth Drannor into your campaigns? I know in my gaming groups this is one thing that we will not adopt in any time in the immediate future.
Not me. I have to much in game history with the elves and with Myth Drannor to change if I wanted to include these events.
That goes for me as well.
I've set a different path for Myth Drannor... and it's been something I have been slowly building up for years and through my campaigns. To bring in the reclamation now would not only disrupt all my previous work, but also become problematic in its application. I wouldn't know where to cut away bits and pieces I've established for Myth Drannor, to make it relatable to lore that's been written into the official FR through sourcebooks and novels.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 17:00:40
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| I don't think I will use the reclamation; I have other long term plans for the area that I like better. If I want the elves back in Cormanthor ( and I have been wondering about that) I will use some sort of dimensional pocket-plane that they have settled instead. From this hidden home they can then influence the lands around if they chose. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:08:34
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| I will be adopting it, it works out quite nicely for me. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:09:25
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| I, uh, vehemently dislike the "Reclamation", so I'm totally ignoring it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:11:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I, uh, vehemently dislike the "Reclamation", so I'm totally ignoring it.
Ah yes, I seem to recall you mentioning it once. Or twice.  |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:18:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I, uh, vehemently dislike the "Reclamation", so I'm totally ignoring it.
Ah yes, I seem to recall you mentioning it once. Or twice.
Or thrice. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:25:29
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Cough,
Topic, can we get back to it? :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 03:09:33
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My campaign in the area has ended for now, but I had just introduced several returning families of elves in the region, some of which were tied to the Eldreth Veluuthra, thus making the PCs paranoid about any elves in the region. I started to hint at the Vhearunite drow getting their hands on some information that would allow them to weave the Mythal, but the PCs never got a chance to follow up on this particular threat.
In the end the cleric of Helm was building an abbey near Pelden's Helm, just outside the Beast Country, and so as an epilogue I told the PCs about the raiding fiends and let the cleric know that the temple served as a bastion to save the folk of Pelden's Helm and the surrounding farms. He was pretty happy about the use his abbey got, and almost forgot about the horrible evil I perpetrated upon his character at campaign's end.
Just before we moved into the "endgame" the party cleric had helped Haresk organize some of the dales into having a more formal mutual defense pact, especially since the Helmite made a good impression on Lord Ilmeth of Battledale. This all seemed to work out fairly well when I explained the Dales and how they mustered when I summed up the events of the Last Mythal books. |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 01:47:52
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| I would say that they don't have alot to worry about from the Zents and Hillsfar for a while, as the Zents will be busy completely domination their new old on Hillsfar, adn working on aqquiring the rest of the moonsea next probabbly before the dales, although sqirmishes might be common! I would say that the population would swell a bit for a while as the elves soldiers brought their families with them and new blood (human arrives). Although if they did the monster hunting carefully they could lower the risks greatly, plus many monsters would flee. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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How stands Myth Drannor & the Dales?
