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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 15:21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Wow I feel bad now . . . I hereby promise not to read any novels in bookstores anymore (actually, I have only read one novel in a bookstore, while I was getting divorced and was living on Mt. Dew and bags of Doritoes). But I have to look through gaming books, because, honestly, sometimes looking through a book has saved me a lot of buyer regret (I'm talking about you Magic of Incarnum).
I hear you, KnightErrant. Over the years, I've purchased a lot of books from Amazon.com that I never would have bought from a bookstore. The reasons are legion: clunky writing style, too small print, a lack of a bibliography in a history book.
Admittedly, I've read an entire book in a bookstore. The book in question was Laurell K. Hamilton's MICAH. It was a novella-length story stretched into a mass market paperback by using double spacing, huge margins, blank pages, and a long excerpt from an upcoming book. Seriously, there was so little on the pages that I could absorb each page in two visual bites. Fascinated by this, I started paging through it, and less than fifteen minutes later, I'd read the whole book. And then I felt obligated to purchase it, which pissed me off. With one kid in college and another soon to leave the nest, I'm purchasing fewer books these days.
Sorry to hear about your divorce. As a particular comedian once observed, you have to graph the difference between a lot of pain all at once, or lesser pain over a long period of time. He concluded that this is what calculus is for. An interesting way of looking at it, I suppose. |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 17:04:55
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Visit the public library. A+, Elaine.
As a side note, many public libraries actually have a lot of the core books and some of the Realms stuff IN them. You won't find that in the midwest, but you'll find it on the east and west coasts of the United States, and some places in Canada. (Anyplace that is not Jesusland)I'll be buying the book, more than likely.
Oh, and KE? Magic of Incarnum? I have to agree with you. Though Monster Manual IV may soon surpass it on the list. I really don't need space devoted in a supplement to statting out an 8th level Drow Priestess. I can do that with a Players Handbook and a Monster Manual. (Which, by the way, are usually two of the books you can find in a local library.)
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 17:27:45
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Admittedly, I've read an entire book in a bookstore. The book in question was Laurell K. Hamilton's MICAH. It was a novella-length story stretched into a mass market paperback by using double spacing, huge margins, blank pages, and a long excerpt from an upcoming book. Seriously, there was so little on the pages that I could absorb each page in two visual bites. Fascinated by this, I started paging through it, and less than fifteen minutes later, I'd read the whole book. And then I felt obligated to purchase it, which pissed me off. With one kid in college and another soon to leave the nest, I'm purchasing fewer books these days.
Yikes, and for such a... less-than-stellar book, which is a rip-off because of all that absurd spacing, too. (I understand that the author insists that it is a "novellite", neglecting the fact that there's a word for it -- novella -- and that "novellite" is not a word in any dictionary.) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 18:40:09
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I swear, if I didn't like some of the guys in the Anita Blake series, I'd quit reading it. I rather hate the main character both from a personal and literary point of view..
That being said, I feel the same. I have never read a book in a bookstore. It feels... Wrong. The closest I got was when I sat down and did an IQ test while my sister's significant other was browsing books.
*Shakes fist* Stupid test with its ambiguous answers. I was right! |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 18:57:16
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Wow I feel bad now . . . I hereby promise not to read any novels in bookstores anymore (actually, I have only read one novel in a bookstore, while I was getting divorced and was living on Mt. Dew and bags of Doritoes). But I have to look through gaming books, because, honestly, sometimes looking through a book has saved me a lot of buyer regret (I'm talking about you Magic of Incarnum).
I hear you, KnightErrant. Over the years, I've purchased a lot of books from Amazon.com that I never would have bought from a bookstore. The reasons are legion: clunky writing style, too small print, a lack of a bibliography in a history book.
Admittedly, I've read an entire book in a bookstore. The book in question was Laurell K. Hamilton's MICAH. It was a novella-length story stretched into a mass market paperback by using double spacing, huge margins, blank pages, and a long excerpt from an upcoming book. Seriously, there was so little on the pages that I could absorb each page in two visual bites. Fascinated by this, I started paging through it, and less than fifteen minutes later, I'd read the whole book. And then I felt obligated to purchase it, which pissed me off. With one kid in college and another soon to leave the nest, I'm purchasing fewer books these days.
Sorry to hear about your divorce. As a particular comedian once observed, you have to graph the difference between a lot of pain all at once, or lesser pain over a long period of time. He concluded that this is what calculus is for. An interesting way of looking at it, I suppose.
Thanks for your support Elaine, though the divorce is long over and now I am married to my wonderful bride of, almost, one year. During that time though, I definately drifted away from the Realms (and before then as well, since my ex had no tolerance for sci-fi or fantasy). Thankfully my lovely wife and I ended up talking about Dune and Star Trek the first night we met . . . |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 19:00:22
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Hello-
Elaine, Kuje, KEJR, GothicDan - Oh how I wish the majority of the world felt as you do! Sometimes - I think that they (customers) come in just to read and not buy. However - business is good - so people ARE buying. :) I somehow bet that all of you are also people who would Never put a book down randomly, or just stuff it on a shelf anywhere - rather - you likely place it right back where you found it. Ah - the simplicity in that!
I am lucky, (*as is another Scribe I noticed made a similar comment in the last day or two*) as I work in a bookstore - I am allowed to borrow boks. This is great in deciding what to buy or not buy. I can take it home - or even in the case of a gaming supplement - take it to gaming to get other people's opinions. As it is - I spend WAY too much on books - so any chance to make a more informed decision - I take!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 19:20:29
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Sometimes I'll wander a store for 5 minutes trying to figure out where I got a book from, if I decide not to purchase it in the end. My memory isn't all that great sometimes. ;)
Ah, to work in a bookstore.. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 20:21:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
I somehow bet that all of you are also people who would Never put a book down randomly, or just stuff it on a shelf anywhere - rather - you likely place it right back where you found it.
Oh, HELL no. If a book is misshelved, I'll often put it back where it's supposed to go. If it appears that something was misshelved by bookstore employees, I'll bring the matter to their attention.
I'm really surprised to learn that a bookstore lets employees take books home to read and pass around to their friends. They don't put these back on the shelves and sell them as new, do they? Because that policy sounds a a lot like letting employees at a clothes store wear something once, then return it to the racks. I have no problems with selling used books, but I think that ought to be left to used bookstores.
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 20:53:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I'm really surprised to learn that a bookstore lets employees take books home to read and pass around to their friends. They don't put these back on the shelves and sell them as new, do they? Because that policy sounds a a lot like letting employees at a clothes store wear something once, then return it to the racks. I have no problems with selling used books, but I think that ought to be left to used bookstores.
Hello-
Well - let me make a couple of points clear. :) We have to treat the books Well - can't bringthem back in less-than new condition. Some people may argue that it would be impossible to do that - but its not that hard. I'm sure many Scribes here probably read their books in such a way that it would be difficult to tell if it had been read at all.
As for 'passing around to friends' - its not something that is done over a long period of time. Just - say - the amount of perusal one would normally perform AT the bookstore. It provides some basic information-gathering about the book - and discussion can ensue about the books usefulness or lack therof in our games.
As for whether or not they are resold. Of course. Agreeably your clothes example makes good sense. However - dont fool yourself - I'm sure there are more customers (both in bookstores and clothes stores) who buy things and then return them. I would guess even more so at a bookstore. (*I doubt many clothes stores allow for 'normal' returns if tags have been removed etc. - and I know of people who buy some clothes - and then return some - after trying them on at home. I know there are fitting rooms etc - but some poeple may not like their use - or want an opinion of someone not with them at the moment.*) I know we take back books probably 1/2 dozen times a day. Certainly - some are due to diuble purchaes by people, duplicate gifts, etc - but we (*employees*) DO notice people who tend to use the bookstore as a 'library' buying what they want to read - keeping it long enough to read - and then exchanging for something that is "more appropraite" and then repeating the process again.
Whoa - I think I hear Alaundo coming down the hall! 
What I am curious about is how well this book is actually doing. I'll check at work when I go back next week (*Vacation!!!*) - and maybe check out AMazon's rank - and compare it to some other releases around the same time period, since IIRC they dont give actual numbers.
Dhomal
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I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 21:01:00
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
I somehow bet that all of you are also people who would Never put a book down randomly, or just stuff it on a shelf anywhere - rather - you likely place it right back where you found it.
Oh, HELL no. If a book is misshelved, I'll often put it back where it's supposed to go. If it appears that something was misshelved by bookstore employees, I'll bring the matter to their attention.
I'm really surprised to learn that a bookstore lets employees take books home to read and pass around to their friends. They don't put these back on the shelves and sell them as new, do they? Because that policy sounds a a lot like letting employees at a clothes store wear something once, then return it to the racks. I have no problems with selling used books, but I think that ought to be left to used bookstores.
I've been asked questions before by people in the store because they think I work there, since I often end up reorganizing the D&D section when it looks like crap. I take the time to regroup all of the core books together, and face out the new releases on the top shelf. Then people ask me questions and I tell them that I don't work there and they give me REALLY funny looks. Then again, I used to work in retail, so its a habit I have a hard time breaking.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 01:30:36
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Besides, reading a story in its entirety in the bookstore just feels like stealing to me.
I'd have to agree with this. If reading a book in a bookstore turns it into a used copy that no one wants to buy, what is the practical difference between this and tucking it under your coat and walking out with it? If you've ensured that no one--publisher, bookstore or author--will see any revenue from that copy of the book, you might as well steal it outright.
Yes--and also, I feel that if you haven't paid for a book (or borrowed it from a library or someone else who owns it), then you really have no right to read it, because you are reading it for free, and as you said no one will receive any revenue from that.
I don't see how that's much different from, say, downloading music illegally or watching a bootlegged copy of a movie. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 03:57:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
With Bob's early Realms novels this isn't his fault, of course: he only had access (as I recall) to photocopies of bits of the Old Grey Box.
Thankyou for saying that. I was starting to pull my hair out at some of the comments made about the Icewind Dale trilogy, a trilogy published when there was NO "Realms lore." |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 04:08:44
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| I think it gets a bit harder with supplements. We are always told to "check things out in stores" to see if we want a book. I know we've been berated for saying negatives about things we haven't read yet... But I personally don't want to waste money on something I probably will not like. And I refuse to read it in the store. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 05:21:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yes--and also, I feel that if you haven't paid for a book (or borrowed it from a library or someone else who owns it), then you really have no right to read it, because you are reading it for free, and as you said no one will receive any revenue from that.
I don't see how that's much different from, say, downloading music illegally or watching a bootlegged copy of a movie.
Hello-
I agree to a large degree here. However - and you emphasize 'really' - do people not try clothes on to see if they will fit? Many stores offer a chance to listen to music before you buy it also. Cars are test-driven also.
Keep in mind that as far as employees are concerned - one of the reasons we are able to borrow items - is so that we can become more familiar with the product. It makes us more knowledgable (sp?) and informend about what we sell. The company values this and beleives that it helps sales in the long run.
I hope that this information does not make anyone feel any less about your local bookstore/employees. I for one love my job - and know many others I work with do also.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 05:24:57
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As someone that was a guest service manager, and thus got called up to the front desk OFTEN to approve returns, yes, many people try to pick up clothes, wear them for the weekend, then return them on monday, after they went out in them. Not to mention the people that try to return open packages of nevermind . . .
We had a woman that came in one time to return a dress. When we told her the dress had obviously been worn, and not just tried on, she said that she only needed it for one day, since she needed a dress for a funeral, but she didn't need one after that. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 06:00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Hello-
I agree to a large degree here. However - and you emphasize 'really' - do people not try clothes on to see if they will fit? Many stores offer a chance to listen to music before you buy it also. Cars are test-driven also.
Well I don't see anything wrong with skimming through a book for a bit to see what you might be purchasing (that's exactly what I did for novel this very topic is about). However, sitting down, getting comfy, and reading something in it's entirety isn't right--at least not in my opinion.
quote:
Keep in mind that as far as employees are concerned - one of the reasons we are able to borrow items - is so that we can become more familiar with the product. It makes us more knowledgable (sp?) and informend about what we sell. The company values this and beleives that it helps sales in the long run.
I don't see anything wrong with that...as long as the borrowed item doesn't just get put back on the shelf to be sold with the new books. It's essentially selling a used book for a "new" price. I wouldn't take a book that looks used over a new one (who would?). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 06:04:32
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As someone that was a guest service manager, and thus got called up to the front desk OFTEN to approve returns, yes, many people try to pick up clothes, wear them for the weekend, then return them on monday, after they went out in them. Not to mention the people that try to return open packages of nevermind . . .
We had a woman that came in one time to return a dress. When we told her the dress had obviously been worn, and not just tried on, she said that she only needed it for one day, since she needed a dress for a funeral, but she didn't need one after that.
And those people are especially hard on sales associates who are working on commission--as far as I know, returns usually count against their commission, or any other benefit based on how much the person sells.
I'm not against returning things (far from it), just this kind of "borrowing". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2006 : 05:17:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Hello-
I am lucky, (*as is another Scribe I noticed made a similar comment in the last day or two*) as I work in a bookstore - I am allowed to borrow boks. This is great in deciding what to buy or not buy. I can take it home - or even in the case of a gaming supplement - take it to gaming to get other people's opinions. As it is - I spend WAY too much on books - so any chance to make a more informed decision - I take!
Dhomal
That would be me Dhomal.
Dragons: Worlds Afire is just one of those books that I would purchase in paperback, but not in hardcover. At the same time, I do not want to wait to read the stories. Solution, check the book out. Many of you know that you would love this perk.
Is it stealing? I don't feel it is, but I definately see Elaine's point. The amount of damaged books we send back is crazy. People returning books, knocking books on the floor, spilling coffee on them, 'using' certain ones in the bathroom... you get the picture. The only ones that I trust to not mishandle the merchandise are the majority of the employees. So, checking out books is the least of my worries when it comes to book abuse.
Don't even get me started about people leaving books all over the place, or just laying it down wherever is convenient for them.
So, anyway, the stories are worth checking out, given the chance. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2006 : 06:23:40
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| All retail comments aside, does anyone have any other information relating to the book and its contents? (just to gently steer this topic back to the original intent . . . ) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 04:43:05
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| No, but I'll admit listening them talk about people using cloths, particularly employees makes me glad I insist on all new clothing I wear gets immidiately washed (or dry cleaned if appropriate.) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Dragons: Worlds Afire
