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CarolinaPaladin
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 13:18:49
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Okay, I know that Mask is labeled as Neutral Evil, but apparently, one of his followers did help stop the Cult of the Dragon's plan in Myth Drannor (I'm referring to the book not the game). Does this mean that Mask's followers are sometimes good?
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I have not yet begun to adventure! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 13:38:51
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Stopping an Evil cult does not always mean it is done for a good cause. Evil factions often compete against each other for the same goals or sometimes just reduce the power of the other faction.
Two evil cults fighting each other tends to be good for the reamls, it however does not make one of the cults good.
With that said indeed some followers of Mask can be good, the one step alignment rule applies to Clerics not all followers. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 14:15:43
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Stopping an evil cult isn't necessarily a good act, neither is stopping a good organisation from achieving their goals an evil act.
One example I can think of is Grypht resucing Finder from his prison. It went against the Harpers (generally percieved as a good organisation) but it was certainly not an evil act, indeed it arguably led to the destruction of an evil god 
Another example is the constant friction between the Zhents and the Cult of the Dragon. Neither of them are good, but would happily fight each other.
Champions of Valour has an interesting section on what may cause fights of law vs law, chaos vs chaos, and good vs good. I haven't read champions of ruin but that may have a similar section on evil vs evil (though evil vs evil is much easier to understand so it might not be detailed) |
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CarolinaPaladin
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 14:31:41
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| Hmmm...Another example I can think of are the Red Wizards. Recently (I might be wrong here; my info on this comes from Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide, so the info might not be canon), the Red Wizards have started to turn over a new leaf with their new leader and all (I think the new leader is a woman) and are now establishing shops and trading posts in the Savage Frontier. Another example would be the inhabitants of the Underdark trying to rid the Realms of the Deepspawn (they have yet to succeed; I'm surprised that the Beholders and mind flayers failed in this task). |
I have not yet begun to adventure! |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 14:37:26
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I think the evil organizations are more likely to fight, at least shed blood, than good ones. So it doesn't surprise me that a follower of Mask might fight a Cult member.
The Red Wizards are in no way less evil than they were before. Their current government is however, a bit more peaceful and focused on economic gains rather than military dominance. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Edited by - Mazrim_Taim on 05 Jul 2006 14:38:57 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 14:51:42
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| Mask does as Mask does... if it suits his plans, no matter how twisted and convoluted they may be, he will help good people, but that doesn't make him a good god, after all thievery, intrigue and so on isn't really good... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 15:38:16
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| As a group of opportunists, the faithful of Mask will take the side that best suites the goals of themselves and, if part of the clergy their God. That being said, a believer of Mask could be good as his portfolio coves many areas, such as thievery, that in the game are not restricted to evil characters. Now, the Red Wizards are definitely evil, but still fighting every other group, good or evil, for power. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 15:42:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Mask does as Mask does... if it suits his plans, no matter how twisted and convoluted they may be, he will help good people, but that doesn't make him a good god, after all thievery, intrigue and so on isn't really good...
Even though Mask loves to doublecross and plot against each and everyone, the portfolio of intrigue is his no longer though, as you might remember.......... |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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CarolinaPaladin
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 15:47:57
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| If I'm not mistaken, Mask and Tyr hate each others' guts, so I was surprised when a rogue who worshipped Mask worked with a paladin of Tyr to defeat the Cult of the Dragon. Although, they did have a lot of arguments and bickering going on till right near the end of the book. |
I have not yet begun to adventure! |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 15:57:58
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Surely the Gods oppose each others dogma. But as for a mask-worshipping rogue and a Paladin of Tyr I see no reason why the two should not work together at least for some time. It most certainly will not be a time full of harmony, but...
I doubt though that a coalition of two clerics of those Gods would work very well, with endless discussions being the least bit of trouble.... |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 05 Jul 2006 15:58:35 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:25:56
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| When you say follower do you mean divine caster or lay worshipper because he allows, or he did in 2e, his lay worshippers to be CG and NG. Divine casters were limited to evil and neutral aligns in 2e. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:58:21
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| What is a lay worshipper? Is it someone who's not a divine caster (e.g. a rogue of mask?) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:04:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
What is a lay worshipper? Is it someone who's not a divine caster (e.g. a rogue of mask?)
Yeah. Lay worshippers are people that aren't divine casters. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 01:09:54
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quote:
Originally posted by CarolinaPaladin
If I'm not mistaken, Mask and Tyr hate each others' guts, so I was surprised when a rogue who worshipped Mask worked with a paladin of Tyr to defeat the Cult of the Dragon. Although, they did have a lot of arguments and bickering going on till right near the end of the book.
What book is this? I'm interested.
And, as some people pointed out:
--Mask and his followers are consummate opportunitists. They do what suits their purposes at the time, then move on when it's time to do something else. As a result, they probably do a lot of things that appear to be "good", when it's probably just a matter of what's convenient for them.
--As Kuje pointed out, 2E allowed for people to worship, if not always be priests of, deities who had alignments radically different from their own. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 01:33:52
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I think the rogue of Mask would have less trouble working with a Paladin of Tyr than the other way around.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 02:03:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by CarolinaPaladin
If I'm not mistaken, Mask and Tyr hate each others' guts, so I was surprised when a rogue who worshipped Mask worked with a paladin of Tyr to defeat the Cult of the Dragon. Although, they did have a lot of arguments and bickering going on till right near the end of the book.
What book is this? I'm interested.
Well Faiths & Avatars does say that Tyr is one of Mask's foes. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 02:13:52
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I mean, what novel.  I know Mask and Tyr aren't friends, but I'm picking my brain and can't say that I recall a novel where a follower of Mask and a follower of Tyr have to work together. Sounds like an interesting plot, so I'd like to learn the novel's title. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2006 : 02:40:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I mean, what novel. I know Mask and Tyr aren't friends, but I'm picking my brain and can't say that I recall a novel where a follower of Mask and a follower of Tyr have to work together. Sounds like an interesting plot, so I'd like to learn the novel's title.
Ah.
Hmmm good point and I can't recall such a scene in a novel... weird. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2006 : 13:58:04
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Evil turns on itself. Evil organizations do whatever they can to eliminate competition, including attacking other evil organizations. Evil is even willing to work with good to accomplish their goals. Mask just does what is best for Mask.
Oh, and another thing. Not all followers of evil gods are evil themselves. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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Mask: A good god?
