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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 05:03:42
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In the FRCS, it lists The Weave as a portfolio. Does this mean it is as easily taken and absorbed by other dieties if Mystra were to die? I get the impression, especially from the ToT, that most portfolio's can be taken from other gods when they die. But what about The Weave? Or, will magic cease to exist if Mystra dies. Would another god absorb The Weave and become the new weave?
I'm assuming The Weave is not like the other portfolio's. But I am just wondering where that difference lies.
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And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 08:13:33
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No other Diety could take The Weave, even if Mystra dies, she is always reborn, and the new Diety will have her porfolios.
She is basically the Phoenix of Dieties, always being reborn when she dies. |
Edited by - warlockco on 22 Jun 2006 08:14:01 |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 01:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
No other Diety could take The Weave, even if Mystra dies, she is always reborn, and the new Diety will have her porfolios.
She is basically the Phoenix of Dieties, always being reborn when she dies.
Source on this? It's kind of a debate between me and a few friends. They are the type that think just because "The Weave" is listed as a portfolio, it can be taken just like any other (ala Cyric taking Trickery and Illusion). This is despite my many attempts to explain to them that The Weave isMystra. They don't seem to be able to exist peacefully without each other. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 06:50:34
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Original Mystra (can't think of the exact spelling of her name from that time) sacrifices herself to save the world from Karsus' foolishness.
New Mystra is appointed.
Mystra is killed by Helm during Time of Troubles.
Midnight (who was prepared by Mystra as a contingency if she was destroyed) is appointed the role of Mystra.
Mystra has been died 3 times, and each time she has came back more or less the same as before. The biggest change was when Midnight became Mystra, being Neutral Good instead Lawful Neutral. |
Edited by - warlockco on 23 Jun 2006 06:51:07 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 07:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Mystra has been died 3 times, and each time she has came back more or less the same as before. The biggest change was when Midnight became Mystra, being Neutral Good instead Lawful Neutral.
Even though Midnight, as a mortal, was LN. I'm still trying to find a reason, in game, on why TSR/WOTC decided to ignore that and make her NG but I've yet to find one in any of the sourcebooks/novels. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 07:29:53
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Which is another reason why I'm glad I've kept the original Mystra in my games along with keeping the ToT-related events out of my campaigns.
As part of continuity, and to keep the fact that very little has changed each time Mystra has been reconstituted... most of her aspects have remained the same. I would've liked to have seen Mystra 2.0 stay as LN -- which is in keeping with Midnight before her ascension, and with Mystra 1.0's alignment.
Instead we have the change-over to NG... which also ignores how Midnight was previously, with the post-ToT/WotC lore offering little in the way of an explanation for the change.
-- Though, I've always thought that perhaps, since Midnight's ascension, her lawful outlook may have experienced a shake-up of sorts... having sudden access to such great power. This, by itself can't completely explain a change for LN to NG, but it can suggest that Midnight, after becoming a deity, isn't -- at least immediately -- concerned with entirely "lawful" matters. Her power now gives Midnight/Mystra the ability to do and handle things in ways she couldn't even imagine before... and that's bound to have some effect on how one perceives the world -- tempered, a little, by her desire to do good in her new position.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 23 Jun 2006 07:31:30 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 11:30:58
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| My only problem with her alignment change is the fact that a lot of people use it as an excuse to hate her, ignoring the fact that she only misused her position for a small time and only in one novel, and stopped doing so after being slapped down for it. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 11:48:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Mystra has been died 3 times, and each time she has came back more or less the same as before. The biggest change was when Midnight became Mystra, being Neutral Good instead Lawful Neutral.
Even though Midnight, as a mortal, was LN. I'm still trying to find a reason, in game, on why TSR/WOTC decided to ignore that and make her NG but I've yet to find one in any of the sourcebooks/novels.
I agree, it makes absolutely no sense... 
Especially how she has recently told the Chosen to stop Killing Red Wizards just because they are Red Wizards...  |
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Edited by - warlockco on 23 Jun 2006 11:50:49 |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 12:26:56
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| I don't really understand the shift in alignment either. It causes complications and generally doesn't make much sense. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 12:35:05
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| Fourth'ded. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 12:38:06
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Original Mystra (can't think of the exact spelling of her name from that time) sacrifices herself to save the world from Karsus' foolishness.
whoever is interested in her original name before the Karsus-incident: it was MYSTRYL |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 12:48:13
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to the discussion on the alignment change - even though I do not have a good explenation for it either. Alignment is always a tricky subject. As far as I see it, it's more like a blurring zone of tendencies. So while Mystra surely cannot be Lawful towards the pantheons reguations anymore (due to her experiences after her ascencion) I see no good reason for her to be Good either. So a true neutral with LG tendencies would have suited her just fine.
As for the badge of LN: it is still held up by two other "magic"-related deities, Azuth and Savras.
Ergdusch
EDIT NOTE:
This I found on wikipedia:
"She [Mystra] is a Neutral Good (previously, and still also, Lawful Neutral) Greater Power." That should end the discussion. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 23 Jun 2006 12:54:08 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 13:53:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Original Mystra (can't think of the exact spelling of her name from that time) sacrifices herself to save the world from Karsus' foolishness.
whoever is interested in her original name before the Karsus-incident: it was MYSTRYL
That's it, was just too lazy to find a book with the correct spelling in it.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 17:42:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
EDIT NOTE:
This I found on wikipedia:
"She [Mystra] is a Neutral Good (previously, and still also, Lawful Neutral) Greater Power." That should end the discussion.
No offense, but the accuracy of articles on Wikipedia is sometimes questionable. We've discussed that very matter within these halls, in regards to other FR entries -- including one that kept getting changed back to incorrect information as soon as someone from here corrected it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 17:58:18
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| *Laughs at that story* |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 21:27:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
EDIT NOTE:
This I found on wikipedia:
"She [Mystra] is a Neutral Good (previously, and still also, Lawful Neutral) Greater Power." That should end the discussion.
No offense, but the accuracy of articles on Wikipedia is sometimes questionable. We've discussed that very matter within these halls, in regards to other FR entries -- including one that kept getting changed back to incorrect information as soon as someone from here corrected it.
Yep, and there was a story in the news about someone that had put an entirely fictional and slanderous entry into Wikipedia, and despite that, there is still alot of inaccurate inforamation there. |
News of the Weird
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 23:30:56
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
EDIT NOTE:
This I found on wikipedia:
"She [Mystra] is a Neutral Good (previously, and still also, Lawful Neutral) Greater Power." That should end the discussion.
No offense, but the accuracy of articles on Wikipedia is sometimes questionable. We've discussed that very matter within these halls, in regards to other FR entries -- including one that kept getting changed back to incorrect information as soon as someone from here corrected it.
Yep, and there was a story in the news about someone that had put an entirely fictional and slanderous entry into Wikipedia, and despite that, there is still alot of inaccurate inforamation there.
As you might have considered yourselves: this little NOTE was not meant to be as HARD EVIDENCE! (therefore the smily )
But thanks for the advice...  |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 01:42:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
EDIT NOTE:
This I found on wikipedia:
"She [Mystra] is a Neutral Good (previously, and still also, Lawful Neutral) Greater Power." That should end the discussion.
No offense, but the accuracy of articles on Wikipedia is sometimes questionable. We've discussed that very matter within these halls, in regards to other FR entries -- including one that kept getting changed back to incorrect information as soon as someone from here corrected it.
Indeed. If the articles altered to reflect what Ed has said here are just going to be changed back to their original incorrect form... what's the point of citing it as a valid source when we know, directly from authors and game designers themselves, that the info in those articles can sometimes be wrong.
Which is also why I went nowhere near the Wikipedia FR entries when composing Candlekeep's Guide to FR FAQ. I want that FAQ to remain completely canon and to all relate official lore references.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 03:35:22
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Mystra IS the Weave. If another deity wants power over magic and permanently eliminates Mystra, that deity would theoretically gain power over magic - - but not the Weave, which would collapse with the permanent removal of Mystra (she and it are one and the same).
The Weave doesn't go blooey when Mystra dies, if she's soon replaced, precisely because she has portions of her divine power in her Chosen, as stopgap "anchors" for the Weave, and because Azuth drops all else to balance and maintain the Weave if anything "happens" to Mystra.
Source for this: Ed himself. I'm quoting his notes to his original players here. |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 05:46:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Mystra IS the Weave. If another deity wants power over magic and permanently eliminates Mystra, that deity would theoretically gain power over magic - - but not the Weave, which would collapse with the permanent removal of Mystra (she and it are one and the same).
The Weave doesn't go blooey when Mystra dies, if she's soon replaced, precisely because she has portions of her divine power in her Chosen, as stopgap "anchors" for the Weave, and because Azuth drops all else to balance and maintain the Weave if anything "happens" to Mystra.
Source for this: Ed himself. I'm quoting his notes to his original players here.
That settles it, all my questions are answered and from Ed himself!
Thanks for this THO.  |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 02:31:13
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A pleasure.
I live and breathe the Realms almost as much as Ed does (and Eric, and George, and Steven, and . . . ), and it makes me happy to pass on lore when I can.
Almost as good as skydiving sex . . .
love,
THO |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 03:42:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Almost as good as skydiving sex . . .
Now that's an interesting idea, and quite a visual, too!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 03:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Almost as good as skydiving sex . . .
Now that's an interesting idea, and quite a visual, too!
Well, how do you think winged elves, and other flying creatures, have sex. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 09:06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Almost as good as skydiving sex . . .
Now that's an interesting idea, and quite a visual, too!
Well, how do you think winged elves, and other flying creatures, have sex. :)
I wasn't thinking about avariel sex. I was thinking of the real-world possibilities. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2006 : 09:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Almost as good as skydiving sex . . .
Now that's an interesting idea, and quite a visual, too!
Well, how do you think winged elves, and other flying creatures, have sex. :)
I wasn't thinking about avariel sex. I was thinking of the real-world possibilities.
I know, but I was trying to get it back to something that was at least "on topic." :P) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2006 : 11:04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Almost as good as skydiving sex . . .
The Lady K and I engaged in our first ever skydiving excursion in Sydney.
Given that experience... I'm left to wonder just how you'd accomplish something like this...  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 07 Jul 2006 11:04:59 |
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The Weave as a Portfolio
