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keijemon
Acolyte
49 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 02:31:03
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Hi all,
I was wondering if Titans ever existed in FR and, if yes, have they been detailed anywhere in both fluff and stats. For stats, general abilities/spells would suffice, I'm not looking for usual block like what major NPCs get in sources.
Thank you.
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The greatest trick Ao ever pulled, is convincing Toril he didn't exist. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 03:01:14
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In FR, Titans are the highest species of giant. When the giant empire of Ostoria fell, the other giants broke into smaller kingdoms, but the Titans retreated to the planes, to what I guess would now be Arvandor in the FR cosmology.
More details are in the Twilight Giants trilogy of novels and the 2nd Edition sourcebook Giantcraft.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 13 Jun 2006 03:02:01 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 12:05:31
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| Are there no communities of titans living in Faerun anymore? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 12:33:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Khorne
Are there no communities of titans living in Faerun anymore?
I cant remember there ever having been mentioned any titan communities in modern Faerun, even in Dennings books and Giantcraft. The only titan mentioned in these sources is the son of Annam and Othea, but I cant remember there being any direct mentioning of his descendants.
The Giantcraftbook mentions titans in the rules and common culture of the giants, but doesn't tell anything specific of communities or individuals.
I cant remember the titans being mentioned in other sources either. Sorry. |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 15:14:07
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| See Faiths & Avatars, page 79... |
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TheHermit
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 22:17:38
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| There's a tavern (in the Sword Coast, I believe), that features a helm supposedly once worn by a titan above the entranceway. |
- "Glitz & Klax's Potions & Elixirs"/"The Sandmen", Inside Ravens Bluff, The Living City; 1990; TSR, Inc.
- "The Far Guardians' Traveler's Mission", Port of Ravens Bluff; 1991, TSR, Inc.
- "Signs Painted", Polyhedron #70; April, 1992; TSR, Inc.
- Communications Director, Coliseum of Comics, Orlando, FL - http://coliseumofcomics.com/ |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 22:26:28
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If I may be allowed to nudge towards one of the many books gainable in BG series, there is a tale about The Titans diving into the Sea of Fallen Stars never to resurface. (The Gods' Curse for the Titan's arroagance, King cursed with Curiousity, and the rest of Loyalty, so when the metor falls from heavens and rolls off into the sea of fallen stars the Titan King follows it into the sea and the Rest of the Kingdom follows... think Giant Lemmings... with out the omnipotent being that can make one turn into the halt do not pass lemming  ) |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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TheHermit
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 22:40:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Cardinal
If I may be allowed to nudge towards one of the many books gainable in BG series, there is a tale about The Titans diving into the Sea of Fallen Stars never to resurface. (The Gods' Curse for the Titan's arroagance, King cursed with Curiousity, and the rest of Loyalty, so when the metor falls from heavens and rolls off into the sea of fallen stars the Titan King follows it into the sea and the Rest of the Kingdom follows... think Giant Lemmings... with out the omnipotent being that can make one turn into the halt do not pass lemming )
That would be the tale in F&A that Mr. Leeder mentioned. |
- "Glitz & Klax's Potions & Elixirs"/"The Sandmen", Inside Ravens Bluff, The Living City; 1990; TSR, Inc.
- "The Far Guardians' Traveler's Mission", Port of Ravens Bluff; 1991, TSR, Inc.
- "Signs Painted", Polyhedron #70; April, 1992; TSR, Inc.
- Communications Director, Coliseum of Comics, Orlando, FL - http://coliseumofcomics.com/ |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 23:20:42
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| Ah ^^ I was unaware. I lack all Books where I am at so Like usual, I make vague guesses and shots in the dark. Kewlies ^^ |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 23:40:35
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| The first/last giant was killed in the Twilight Giant trilogy by Troy Denning. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 01:44:46
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quote:
Originally posted by TheHermit
There's a tavern (in the Sword Coast, I believe), that features a helm supposedly once worn by a titan above the entranceway.
That would be the Helm and Cloak Inn/Feast House... as detailed in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 01:52:10
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Additionally, Demihuman Deities notes that Hanali is served by titans.
The 2e "Wardmist spell" is said to sometimes also be protected by undead titans -- VGtATM.
And in the now legendary 2nd web enhancement for CoS by Eric... we note that OLOTHONTORS LAIR resides behind an old stone mansion that was built for two brother titans.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Jun 2006 01:53:42 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 04:20:55
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I cant help, but notice that with all the sources we have mentioned here, the only one that mentions a live titan in the realms is Denning. And now even that ones dead.
The wardmist spell would, as I see it, be the only concrete evidence to there having lived titans in (at least the western realms) modern times. The tale in F&A is a legend and needn't be true and the helmet might be from a giant that has grown in proportions with the years.
That titans might visit the realms at times is highly probable, and they are mentioned, as has been said, as serving the gods in the planes, but how much evidence is there that titans have ever had a lasting presence in the realms?
One of the problems with the titans, with their immense powers and rather volatile personalities, is that it is almost impossible for them to keep a low profile. How can they have escaped the attention of the people of the realms for so long? If they have had lasting dwellings in the realms in modern times I would think that sky castles or dwellings far out in the sea would be your safest bet.
It should be mentioned that even in the old 2ed. Monstrous manual, the titans were said to have their habitat in Olympus.
I am curious, how would other scribes handle the titans in faerun? I can't see them as having much, if any presence in surface Faerun over time. Even a single titan would have such an immense impact on its surroundings that I can't see them as residing in the realms in our present age and I would think that the sighting of a titan would be seen as an omen or a messenger from the gods among most people. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 11:14:53
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My take is that when Lannaxis "disappeared" and became the Twilight Spirit, it was in many ways the big red flag for the Titans to high tail it to the planes. I think the titans also have their egos fed by living in the planes. Not only did they not have to sully themselves by being overthrown by hairly little dwarves and whatever other species came to call, but they can feel superior to other giants as well, saying they rub shoulders with the gods.
From time to time, a few titans may get bored and peek into Toril, get into some trouble, then leave if its not to late, but as far as I can tell, they don't spend any real amount of time in the Realms, nor to they establish settlements. In a way, coming to Toril reminds them that they lost this world, and its like a slap in the face. If they can't come back as rulers, loved and feared by all, why bring back all the painful memories?
But all of that is just how I look at them. I'm sure there are different takes on them as well. |
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keijemon
Acolyte
49 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 14:12:36
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| Hi again, and thank you for all the help. Well of all the sources mentioned I don't have any... but a friend of mine had Giantcraft... but he's away, so I'll have to wait for that. Btw, are those Volo's guides some sort of published material, I've heard them referred to, but never actually seen one. |
The greatest trick Ao ever pulled, is convincing Toril he didn't exist. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 15:31:50
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The Volo's Guides... yes, they are published material. You can download several of them for free at WotC:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads
Additionally, Ed offers an intriguing tidbit on the nature of the Volo's Guides both in-game and with those we actually purchase -
"Re. the list commentary on Volo's Guides:
What you the gamer buy is an our-world compilation (that's where Elminster's comments come in...I, Ed of the Greenwood, make them into footnotes) of "chapbooks" published by Volo, and sold in the streets of Waterdeep and in shops of cities and trade-route settlements (Bargewright Inn, for example) throughout the Heartlands.
The chapbooks are several sheets of paper folded in half, and held together with two knots of waxed thread sewn through the folds...making them like very thin, poor-paper versions of the old D&D booklets. One would have to buy about forty of these (in numbered sets, published one a tenday like Dickens, when he was sold outside the pages of Strand Magazine) to assemble a single "Volo's Guide." The maps would be extra, and never in color. Us modern types get such perks.
Price of a single chapbook? Depends on scarcity, demand, location, and condition. For new but fairly scarce, say 1 sp, and go up or down from there...."
Which is while you'll note that there are, in many of the early Volo's Guides, passing references to Volo's Guide to All Things Magical being considered a "suppressed work". Of course, it's no longer "suppressed" because we now have access to it, but Wooly likes to make it a habit of referring to VGtATM as a "formerly suppressed work"  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 16:40:00
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
My take is that when Lannaxis "disappeared" and became the Twilight Spirit, it was in many ways the big red flag for the Titans to high tail it to the planes. I think the titans also have their egos fed by living in the planes. Not only did they not have to sully themselves by being overthrown by hairly little dwarves and whatever other species came to call, but they can feel superior to other giants as well, saying they rub shoulders with the gods.
From time to time, a few titans may get bored and peek into Toril, get into some trouble, then leave if its not to late, but as far as I can tell, they don't spend any real amount of time in the Realms, nor to they establish settlements. In a way, coming to Toril reminds them that they lost this world, and its like a slap in the face. If they can't come back as rulers, loved and feared by all, why bring back all the painful memories?
But all of that is just how I look at them. I'm sure there are different takes on them as well.
I agree, KEJr. The titans will probably not return to that chapter of their history. Toril would be a sign of their race's failure to maintain Ostoria... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 17:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Which is while you'll note that there are, in many of the early Volo's Guides, passing references to Volo's Guide to All Things Magical being considered a "suppressed work". Of course, it's no longer "suppressed" because we now have access to it, but Wooly likes to make it a habit of referring to VGtATM as a "formerly suppressed work" .
Indeed. Since it was so often referred to as a suppressed work, it amuses me to point out that it's no longer suppressed.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2006 : 17:44:53
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| Power of the Press My Dear Wooly, Power of the Press... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 07:03:48
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There is a bunch about titans in the old FR supplement Giantcraft. The capital of Ostoria was called Voninheim, and "vonin" means "titan" in the giant language, "heim" being "home" or "land".
It seems likely that Voninheim, or a sizeable titan kingdom may have been located where the Sea of Fallen Stars is today. This was many thousands of years before the Sundering, so the continents looked different back then. There is some lore, I believe, that suggests that the Sea of Fallen Stars was once maybe 4 smaller inner seas or great lakes and that perhaps some cataclysmic event joined them together into a greater inner sea.
I personally speculate that the Titans got into a war with the Batrachi, the amphibious creator race, who had settled the land around the inner seas back in the day. I imagine that the "Falling Star" that eradicated the Titan race and carved the Sea of Falling Stars was some sort of epic spell, or a comet perhaps, that was dropped on the Titan homeland as a "mutual assured destruction" doomsday gambit by the Batrachi, which succeeded in razing their own cities as well.
Now the only remnants of Batrachi cities may be those strange towers in the swamps around the edges of the Sea of Fallen Stars. The Batrachi empire ended around -31,000 DR. That may have been around the time that the Titans died out and the "falling star" created the Sea of Falling Stars.
Coincidentally, the dragons are said to have first rained down upon the face of Faerūn in eggs that fell in a meteor shower from the sky, and this was when the Giant races were still young. Dragons rose to become a great power around -30,000 DR and held dominion over Faerūn until about -24,000 DR. Assuming they had to be around for a few generations before they could take over, the first dragon eggs may have fallen and hatched around a thousand years earlier (give or take). It just might be that the dragons fell from the sky in a firestorm around -31,000 DR in the same cataclysmic event that carved the Sea of Fallen stars.
Furthermore, there is a myth in the old FR Draconomicon that says the dragons were spawned from the blood of Asgorath as he (or she) fought a battle in the sky with the sun.
Putting this altogether I like to think that Batrachi mages summoned the dragon-father Asgorath from "beyond" in order to fight the Titans. As a result, Asgorath pulled a comet from the sky (or perhaps some of the Tears of Selūne) and rained them down of Voninheim, along with eggs of his spawn. The event not only exterminated the Titans but spelled the end for the Batrachi empire(s) as well. And of course, the only race that profited were Asgorath's spawn, the dragon race, who grew up to reign supreme over the Realms, for a time, until the First Flowering many milennia later. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 07:08:07
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| By the way, there is probably a way to link a cometary dragon origin in Faerūn, involving a falling star, with the King Killer comet that causes dragons to rage when it passes by. Just brainstorming here. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 23:15:43
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I don`t know much about the titans except that they are the mightiest of the giants. What kind of effect would a nation of titans have on western Faerun if they emigrated to some place there? People seem to suggest that they wouldn`t exactly keep a low profile. (metaphorically) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - khorne on 04 Jul 2006 23:16:21 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 06:16:36
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| well, the Titans are a very small step below demi-gods and are known for spontaneity and extreme reactions of emotions. If it is one thing that is not in the titans nature it is keeping a low profile. Even a small nation of thirty-forty of them would be something like a local Time of very much Trouble. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 04:54:28
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[Dalor Darden Casts Rez Scroll]
Well, I found out that Voninheim is supposed to be near the Glacier caused by Ulutiu...
quote:
Page 11 of "Giantcraft": In its last few years of expansion, the glacier even threatened to engulf Lanaxis' citadel at Voninheim, the remains of Ostoria's capital.
What this does NOT reveal is where exactly that was. It does say that Ulutiu sank in what was then called the Ice Sea (apparently several hundred miles of sea in fact).
So I have no idea exactly where this Titan Citadel was...
Anyone else? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 09 Aug 2010 04:59:01 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 20:46:58
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Voninheim is located in the Cold Lands
when i get home i'll check my sources |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 22:33:26
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| Perhaps I misunderstood then...I thought the "Cold Lands" were Vaasa, Damara and those areas. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2010 : 21:18:22
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Its on a map in the Twilight Giants trilogy - I'll try to scan it for you later - I'm on my way out right now.
And its nowhere near the great Glacier. 
Another lore gaff, but one that is easily fixable, with other canon - the Great Glacier has been receding for centuries, and that piece of ice above Anauroch is a remnant of it, as well as {probably} the Reghed Glacier.
I assumed elsewhere that the Netherese had some sort of artificial way of melting the ice in order to divert that sea way back when, and after their fall the device stopped functioning and the ice returned. I haven't read the Archwizards trilogy, and its probably good I didn't, because I can use what little i know of it with being 'fettered' by the details. If they were re-melting the glacier, i can assume they re-power the ancient artifact/structure that did so in the past.
Unless someone else can come up with a better explanation for everything weird 'up there', thats what I'm using.
EDIT: IIRC, there is also some info about yet-another anciet empire buried under all that ice - it had something to do with portals I think, and some sort of Ice-djinn... something on the Wizards sight a long while back. It may also have been linked to that Ice-Lich woman - forget her name - living just north of Vassa. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Aug 2010 21:21:03 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2010 : 21:24:50
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The Cold Lands used to be bigger and no you didnt misunderstand, there is either the fact that The Cold Lands were REALLY huge or that there is a serious errata issue with that sourcebook
i forgot to check last night but on my way home again to look |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2010 : 22:12:41
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Thanks guys...I just really want to try and nail down where the Titan Citadel was.
There are new hints with the new map of Vaasa calling some of the mountains the "Titan Peaks" an area just to the south and east of there the "Throne of the Titan Lords" and another I can't recall right now from another source.
I'm guessing that the Titan Culture is the one hidden beneath the ice; because in Giantcraft it says Othea wouldn't allow her children to do anything to the glacier as it progressed, and eventually the Titan City was destroyed/covered by it. The Titan's left in disgust after that. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2010 : 03:40:49
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ok, my notes say ...
Lanaxis constructed Voninheim (Bleak Palace) in the Cold Lands at the edge of the Great Glacier (Giantcraft p11)
that is TWO references to the current location of the Cold Lands so I'm inclined to go with that as the location
even if the glacier receded a heck of alot, the fact that it mentioned "Cold Lands" on page 11 sews it up for me as NOT being in the Twilight Giants area, i'll use the reference to Voninheim in the Hartsvale area as the canon faux pas and not the other way around
@Markus ... your edit above speaks of the Perilous Gateways web adventure and yes it is another Giant city named Gharreil located under the Great Glacier, guarded by one of Iyraclea's Icy Claws named Tosvin ... a gelugon ... and as you said it is just north of vaasa and the Ice Run
weblink of the city here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mapofweek/city802.jpg
article here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20020619a
again another reference to a buried giant city under the GG ... the area of Hartsvale is rocky and earth so no chance IMO of buried cities located there and thus another reason to justify that Voninheim is located below the GG
now if it can only be found so the magical fountain can be tested to see if it still works LOL |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
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Titans in FR?
