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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 01:56:59
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Do we have any information on how the Red Wizards view the Shadow Weave and if any of them use it themselves?
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 02:09:36
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| Zulkir Mythrellaa is actively using and exploring the abilities of the Shadow Weave, but since she is more reclusive than other Zulkirs, I don't know if this is common knowledge among them or if she is doing this "on the sly." |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 05:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Zulkir Mythrellaa is actively using and exploring the abilities of the Shadow Weave, but since she is more reclusive than other Zulkirs, I don't know if this is common knowledge among them or if she is doing this "on the sly."
That's right, according to the Wotc website, ever since her fallout with Szass tam, she had locked herself within her own tower to study the secrets of the Shadow Weave. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 05:29:23
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Well, since she has levels of Shadow Adept, she must have learned a few of them  |
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Nightbreeze
Acolyte
Italy
33 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 13:57:54
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| It seems so. I don't think it wll be a common knowledge any soon, as red wizards don't really trust each other enough. ^^ |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 16:09:59
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| Another note. Unapproachable East mentions that it will be difficult to find out how many Red Wizards utilize the Shadow Weave as any Red Wizard with a perceived "advantage" is often ganged up on by his fellow Red Wizards in an attempted to neutralize the threat he might pose, before the fighting over his knowledge begins. Thus those Red Wizards that do learn about the Shadow Weave don't advertise it. This would seem to imply that while some Red Wizards definately do use the Shadow Weave, its not an open practice among them. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 22:11:19
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Would Shar worship be implied by the use of the Shadow Weave? I know that not every wizard that uses magic prays to Mystra or even Azuth but Shar seems like she would get something in exchange before handing over access to the Shadow weave to such a potentially interesting member of the Red Wizards. From the RotA series I would assume, if I am not mistaken, that learning to use the shadow weave is almost our equivalent of selling ones soul to the devil.  At least from Galearon's experience.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2006 : 02:02:35
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Using the shadow weave doesn't always equal to worshipping Shar. Non-Sharrans who use the Shadow Weave suffer from wisdom loss and a bit of mental instability, but Sharrans who use the Shadow Weave do not suffer wisdom loss or lose their sanity as Shar protects them from the damaging effects of the Shadow Weave but such protection must be earned the hard way-murder.
quote:
From the RotA series I would assume, if I am not mistaken, that learning to use the shadow weave is almost our equivalent of selling ones soul to the devil. At least from Galearon's experience.
Not really, Galeron is not a shade, so he didn't trade his soul for shadowstuff. I think he is just a bit mentally unstable from using the Shadow Weave. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2006 : 02:29:23
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Now correct me if I'm wrong but to me the shadow weave seems like it is only useful if you are all about illusion, necromancy, and I think one other spell school. Game mechanics wise of course. So it would seem the ultimate spell enhancer for bad guys but makes some decent spells weaker that are not mentioned above. Like abjuration and enchantment. However I guess the fact that shadow magic is unstable and works pretty much anywhere does make it worthwhile. Unless of course you are a chosen of mystra or a spellfire wielder. A little boom with the spellfire and you are back in business in any magic dead area.  Any body else have any thoughts on Shadow magic or am I beating a dead horse? |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2006 : 22:50:07
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I don't see many red wizards turning to the shadow weave because it lessens your ability with transmutation and evocation effects. Since most red wizards are giving up 3 schools of magic, if these are 2 of the 3 then that becomes less of a problem. However, these are two schools which I don't see the typical Thayan dropping. However, illusionists, enchanters, and necromancers may consider it. Consider however that there is also a bit of slavish devotion to Shar as a requirement. Although the war against Mulhorand was 400 years ago, the Thayan arcanists (in general) still aren't all that ready to go placing themselves under the thumb of a deity for a slight advantage.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 00:20:16
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On the idea that the Red Wizards would not bow to a deity in order to gain a slight advantage, Agreed.
Does any one agree that Shadow weave magic is limiting game mechanic wise? |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 00:43:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Does any one agree that Shadow weave magic is limiting game mechanic wise?
The only thing I never understood about that filter of magic is why it was a feat..... Does it really need to be a feat? Weave magic isn't a feat and so it never made any sense to me that you'd need to take a feat to use Shadow Weave magic but you didn't need one to use Weave magic..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 04 Jun 2006 02:02:10 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 01:54:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Does any one agree that Shadow weave magic is limiting game mechanic wise?
The only thing I never understood about that filter of magic is why it was a feat..... Does it really need to be a feat? Weave magic isn't a feat and so never made any sense to me that you'd need to take a feat to use Shadow Weave magic but you didn't need one to use Weave magic.....
Which is part of the reason why the Shadow Weave doesn't exist in my FR campaign.
Since I've never been comfortable with the whole "Shadow Weave Feat" aspect of the magic... I decided several years ago that I wouldn't be incorporating the Shadow Weave into my games.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 02:31:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Unless of course you are a chosen of mystra or a spellfire wielder. A little boom with the spellfire and you are back in business in any magic dead area. Any body else have any thoughts on Shadow magic or am I beating a dead horse?
That had never been tested experimentally. According to what happened to Telamont, he is made of pure ShadowStuff, possibly stuff of the Shadow Weave, and the Chosen fear silverfire interaction with his substance may not only result in his annihilation, but something far worse happening as well.
I don't feel the Shadow Weave is limiting game mechanic, either. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 14:34:22
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Concerning Kuje's comments, the feats taken to access the shadow weave do add a higher DC rating to the character's spells. That is a definite plus. However I still think, no offense shadovar, that game mechanics wise the shadow weave is weaker than weave magic. However, I may be very wrong in that I do not remember all the specifics concerning the "special" reactions that weave and shadow weave magic magic have when interacting with each other. I just know that you can use shadow weave magic in magic dead areas.
So basically I am considering in a perfect scenario weave magic is stronger than shadow weave magic... game mechanics wise. Now in a dungeon with magic dead areas shadow weave would work better than weave magic. Plus dungeons tend to have plenty of darkness to fuel the cool of shadow weave magic....game mechaincs wise. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 18:06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Which is part of the reason why the Shadow Weave doesn't exist in my FR campaign.
Since I've never been comfortable with the whole "Shadow Weave Feat" aspect of the magic... I decided several years ago that I wouldn't be incorporating the Shadow Weave into my games.
Oh me to. It doesn't exist in my FR nor does the return of Shade and all those events but I still sometimes wonder, like the rangers of Cyric, why WOTC decided what they decided. But then maybe that's just my dislike of some of the 3/3.5e mechanics and that a lot of things don't make sense to me on why they are feats, etc. Take Knight's spellfire thread that he recently posted, I'd rather see that as a template as well instead of a feat and two prestige classes. A template would make more sense to me..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 19:41:56
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| Your thoughts are wise Kuje. I think your template idea has merit. Have you worked on such an idea already? |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 19:44:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Your thoughts are wise Kuje. I think your template idea has merit. Have you worked on such an idea already?
Me? Make a template? Are you kidding? :) I leave the 3/3.5e rule crafting to Arivia or Warlocko. In otherwords, I'm not good at making mechanics for the new rules and half the time, even for my email game, i reference 2e mechanics cause they make more sense to me then the current mechanics. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2006 : 01:50:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Oh me to. It doesn't exist in my FR nor does the return of Shade and all those events but I still sometimes wonder, like the rangers of Cyric, why WOTC decided what they decided. But then maybe that's just my dislike of some of the 3/3.5e mechanics and that a lot of things don't make sense to me on why they are feats, etc.
I think it's more than that...
I think it also has to do with the fact that we've had experiences with some Realms elements in previous editions of the game mechanics that presented things we have liked and preferred. And then, only to see the "less-than-faithful" conversions then presented in 3e which either make what we knew before, not completely accurate, or present new aspects on those older elements with little rhyme or reason.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2006 : 22:48:22
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The Shadow Weave is virtually non-existant in the Unapproachable East as a whole.
Thay: Red Wizards turn on anyone of their order who has learned something of value or that gives them some magical advantage, and they are not particularly devout to any deity. Those Red Wizards who do adopt the Shadow Weave (Mythrella) keep their newfound abilities to themselves.
The few organized cabals of Red Wizards who did draw upon the Shadow Weave as a whole, likely met their end in 1368 DR and in 1371 at the hands of the Simbul (see Silverfalland Elminster in Hell)
Rashemen: The Wychlaran view the Shadow Weave as the blackest sort of poison, have ordered their sisters to watch for any use of such magic within their land, and in concert have destroyed many practioners of the Shadow Weave.
Aglarond: practioners of the art in Aglarond either
A) learned their art directly from the Simbul, or had their arcane education arranged by her.
B) are half-elves or elves who follow their racial magical traditions.
C) are clerics or druids of Selune, Chauntea, or the Seldarine.
since none of the above groups are on friendly terms with the clergy of Shar or the Shadow Weave, one can expect the Shadow Weave to be exceptionally rare. Combine that with the presence of the Guardians of the Weave in Velprintalar, and the fact that most Aglarondan spellcasters, like their queen, tend to focus on evocation and transmutation magic (which are weaker when cast by Shadow Adepts), and its safe to say its a rare occurence indeed. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2006 : 01:03:22
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| That convinces me. Simbul, thank you for your logical explanation concerning the unapproachable east and shadow weave users. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2006 : 03:19:22
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>>I think it also has to do with the fact that we've had experiences with some Realms >>elements in previous editions of the game mechanics that presented things we have liked and >>preferred. And then, only to see the "less-than-faithful" conversions then presented in 3e >>which either make what we knew before, not completely accurate, or present new aspects on >>those older elements with little rhyme or reason.
Ahem, circle magic.... Thayan wizards basically had tons of spell slots available due to their circle and heavy specialization. Now, its they have the same numbers of spells as others, but they heighten a few to the point that the spell DC is astronomical. Makes Thayan necromancers have a handful of very nasty spells now (heightened wail of the banshee anyone? Makes you want to have death ward up persistently). Truthfully, now they're nastier opponents to the average party because most combats don't allow a wizard to use all his spells (much less the 2nd edition one who just had a ton of effects and thus tended to prepare more utilitarian effects as well). I almost feel bad when I send my players against a full-fledged blood cowl. Almost.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Red Wizards & The Shadow Weave
